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Joined: Nov 2011
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,870 Likes: 284 |
Reading between the lines here's what I think happened. I'm 99% sure of it. Coy gets a lease, he's excited about it. He's never told that someone else has a perpetual non-deeded easement through his lease that has been in place for 200+ yrs. Thinking he's the only one with access, Coy does what anyone would do and cuts all the old locks off the gates and puts his on.
Hog's FNL rolls up to the gate to go to his property, like he's done for years, maybe with a tractor in tow, maybe to hunt. Dang, someone has changed the locks. Opens tool box and removes "master key" (bolt cutters) and opens the gate and accesses his property. He's got stuff to do and doesnt have time to try to contact people etc. and to be honest, its not his hassle to deal with. With the lock now cut, there is unfortunately no way to secure the property without locking Coy out of it, which he is nice enough not to do, so gate is open. The issue is with the landowner that leased Coy the property without disclosing all the pertinent details.
Last edited by abolt300; 11/21/17 07:42 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
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Sounds like an appurtenant easement to me.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464 |
Reading between the lines here's what I think happened. I'm 99% sure of it. Coy gets a lease, he's excited about it. He's never told that someone else has a perpetual non-deeded easement through his lease that has been in place for 200+ yrs. Thinking he's the only one with access, Coy does what anyone would do and cuts all the old locks off the gates and puts his on.
Hog's FNL rolls up to the gate to go to his property, like he'd done for years, maybe with a tractor in tow, maybe to hunt. Dang, someone has changed the locks. Opens tool box and removes "master key" (bolt cutters) and opens the gate and accesses his property. He's got stuff to do and doesnt have time to try to contact people etc. and to be honest, its not his hassle to deal with. With the lock now cut, there is unfortunately no way to secure the property without locking Coy out of it which he is nice enough not to do so gate is open. The issue is with the landowner that leased Coy the property without disclosing all the pertinent details. ^^^^ Let's go with this.
Yeah, well, I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas: sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,288 Likes: 10
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,288 Likes: 10 |
I couldn�t follow Hog�s response as to why his FNL uses this gated entrance that is supposedly 7 miles from his house rather than the other entrance that is supposedly 3 miles from his house? Is it a creek with no bridge or a black mans yard or what?
If you want to always win, never play anyone better than you!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
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It would be a great time to look up the definition of Prescriptive Easement.
And, I would think that 75+ yrs of accessing property through what used to be a Public Road would quantify this case as such. Or, at least that is what the Sheriff and a Judge both said.
There can be no acquisition of an easement by prescription (or title to property by adverse possession) unless the person claiming same used the property openly, hostile, and in defiance of the landowner's rights. >> There can be no secret easement by prescription. >> If the access was used with the landowner's permission then there can be no easement by prescription (ditto adverse possession). An easement (or title to land) must be for 20 years unbroken, uninterrupted and totally open and hostile and in defiance of the landowner's rights to exclusive possession of their property. If the subject access road to the back 80 acres has been done in a friendly way with the landowner simply agreeing to it then there is no and can be no easement by prescription, adverse possession rights, etc. ****** Philosophical commentary: If someone claims to be Christian, a conservative or a constitutionalist then they should by definition never make a claim for any kind of title by adverse possession/easement by prescription rights/title, etc. Doing same would be a direct contradiction of the aforementioned beliefs and principles IMO.
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,851 Likes: 17
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,851 Likes: 17 |
Nothing solves these issues like a little face to face. Stop the �he said- he said � crap and get to the nut cutting. Ask all involved to a sit down & get it solved in less than a hour. ^^^ this
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
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I couldn�t follow Hog�s response as to why his FNL uses this gated entrance that is supposedly 7 miles from his house rather than the other entrance that is supposedly 3 miles from his house? Is it a creek with no bridge or a black mans yard or what? The road was re-routed around the guys house. It also does not go all the way to the property, there is a creek that would require a bridge, it is longer & travels across more properties and they have never had any access rights through that road. Just because a road turns off �closer� to someone�s house, does not mean it is closer, or a shorter route, to a property.
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Joined: Feb 2015
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2015
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I couldn�t follow Hog�s response as to why his FNL uses this gated entrance that is supposedly 7 miles from his house rather than the other entrance that is supposedly 3 miles from his house? Is it a creek with no bridge or a black mans yard or what? The road was re-routed around the guys house. It also does not go all the way to the property, there is a creek that would require a bridge, it is longer & travels across more properties and they have never had any access rights through that road. Just because a road turns off �closer� to someone�s house, does not mean it is closer, or a shorter route, to a property. I have no dog in this fight but If they DID NOT have access rights via the gated road. Why are they using it? If that's the case the OP has every right to be pissed off and your FNL is in the wrong here. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say in your post.
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Booner
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Booner
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You misunderstood......
I am referring to the road that Coy said they could/should use. That is what the question that foldemup posed....so, I responded.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,042 Likes: 135 |
There can be no acquisition of an easement by prescription (or title to property by adverse possession) unless the person claiming same used the property openly, hostile, and in defiance of the landowner's rights.
>> There can be no secret easement by prescription.
>> If the access was used with the landowner's permission then there can be no easement by prescription (ditto adverse possession).
An easement (or title to land) must be for 20 years unbroken, uninterrupted and totally open and hostile and in defiance of the landowner's rights to exclusive possession of their property.
If the subject access road to the back 80 acres has been done in a friendly way with the landowner simply agreeing to it then there is no and can be no easement by prescription, adverse possession rights, etc.
******
Philosophical commentary: If someone claims to be Christian, a conservative or a constitutionalist then they should by definition never make a claim for any kind of title by adverse possession/easement by prescription rights/title, etc.
Doing same would be a direct contradiction of the aforementioned beliefs and principles IMO.
You are pretty much spot on, however, the wild card is what one of these crazy Alabama Juries might do.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Booner
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Booner
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For people to try and display themselves as so �learned� on the legal language of the Law, there sure are some broad leaps made without facts, or even questions!
Like, has the property being crossed changed hands?
Was the road legally condemned?
Has this issue been discussed between the landowners before?
I mean, just SIMPLE facts and questions.....nothing real in-depth or excessively complex or complicit with legal terminogy!
And, several of you are spot on correct about this not even being an issue that Xoy has ANY legal ground to stand on. He is leasing Hunting Rights; no more, no less. This issue is for the landowners, their Agents......and possibly a Court.....to work out!
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Joined: Mar 2017
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My head is in my ass.
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My head is in my ass.
Joined: Mar 2017
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For people to try and display themselves as so �learned� on the legal language of the Law, there sure are some broad leaps made without facts, or even questions!
Like, has the property being crossed changed hands?
Was the road legally condemned?
Has this issue been discussed between the landowners before?
I mean, just SIMPLE facts and questions.....nothing real in-depth or excessively complex or complicit with legal terminogy!
And, several of you are spot on correct about this not even being an issue that Xoy has ANY legal ground to stand on. He is leasing Hunting Rights; no more, no less. This issue is for the landowners, their Agents......and possibly a Court.....to work out! Hey, it's ALdeer. People make up their own facts. People make up their own reality. People that have no effing idea what their talking about become experts around here.... SMDH!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 |
There can be no acquisition of an easement by prescription (or title to property by adverse possession) unless the person claiming same used the property openly, hostile, and in defiance of the landowner's rights.
>> There can be no secret easement by prescription.
>> If the access was used with the landowner's permission then there can be no easement by prescription (ditto adverse possession).
An easement (or title to land) must be for 20 years unbroken, uninterrupted and totally open and hostile and in defiance of the landowner's rights to exclusive possession of their property.
If the subject access road to the back 80 acres has been done in a friendly way with the landowner simply agreeing to it then there is no and can be no easement by prescription, adverse possession rights, etc.
******
Philosophical commentary: If someone claims to be Christian, a conservative or a constitutionalist then they should by definition never make a claim for any kind of title by adverse possession/easement by prescription rights/title, etc.
Doing same would be a direct contradiction of the aforementioned beliefs and principles IMO.
You are pretty much spot on, however, the wild card is what one of these crazy Alabama Juries might do. Juries?? My mother was on a jury about a adverse possession case. Sat through the whole trial and at the end the judge said "I thank the jurors for being here but I'm making the ruling on this case.". And he did.
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,415 Likes: 14
14 point
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,415 Likes: 14 |
Don�t you have to have written permission to cross one property to go hunt an adjacent property?
“It’s enough to make a man feel sour. Burning minutes every day by the hour. Just to end up gone like everything else.”
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,091 Likes: 50
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,091 Likes: 50 |
"And the days that I keep my gratitude
Higher than my expectations
Well, I have really good days" Ray Wylie Hubbard
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
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Another thing that is considered, were the properties all part of the same ownership at one time?
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,415 Likes: 14
14 point
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,415 Likes: 14 |
So it is ok for the large land leaseholder to come in from the opposite end by going through the small parcel with a jacked 4x4 tall enough to cross the creek?
“It’s enough to make a man feel sour. Burning minutes every day by the hour. Just to end up gone like everything else.”
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