Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Quality Deer Management Throw n Mow Q&A

I went and looked at my fields this past weekend, I haven't sprayed any of them or bushhogged them all summer. other than two or three that were entirely to grown up, the others looks great to do T&M. I still have plenty of durana clover in the plots and the summer grasses are browning. i think after seeding and bushhogging them I'm going to lightly disc my fields one time with the disc set straight just to break the surface. the only thing I'm worried about is weeds that are left alive due to not spraying, but I think the first frost will get them either way. planning on planting this weekend with or with out any rain. only time I'll be able to get all my members there to help

Ok I have another question.
I have my elbon rye, wheat and a mix of crimson, arrowleaf and ladino clover's. When is the best time to try and plant this in Escambia county AL.

you're south of me so right now on into the next couple months

I agree. If you have the option, I'd watch the weather and look for good rain chances in the forecast just ahead of planting. We're supposed to cool off again later this week.

This is an old rotting sweetgum stump where the soil is rich in organic matter………



If we look at the soil in this area then we see a picture of what we are trying to recreate. See how the soil is in the form of “soil aggregates”……..that is how you achieve proper water infiltration and O2 exchange. Again, the soil is not supposed to one compressed wad…..there’s supposed to be pore space between aggregates.

The existing grass that was growing in the heavy clay area was ideal for planting like this…..My turnips are a lot thicker in this area than I meant for them to be though. It’s amazing how many turnips are in 1 lb. I only planted 5 lbs TOTAL across 5 ish acres and they’re everywhere. This heavy clay area probably got the best germination of anywhere I planted. The rye established so thick that I’m kind of wondering if the clover will make it. We’ll see. I’ve said this already back at planting time but it’s worth repeating again while folks start talking about fertilizer rates in other threads……As of right now my fall plantings have had 50 lbs of 34-0-0 applied. More efficient management practices result in more efficient use of nutrients. I have no need to add any P&K right now. Levels are good to go.



All right so let’s show some of the ugly too. Really think about what has happened in the next couple pics…….

Remember back a few months ago when I decided to do the simulated mob grazing experiment……Well, even though I had my disks barely cutting, some areas of my field weren’t quite as thick with vegetation as the rest of the field and the soil is just so soft that I cut in way more than I meant to. Fortunately, it was only a few small areas so it’s not a widespread issue. These micro-areas were basically tilled and the bare soil exposed. Here’s what those areas look like now.



This is the power of rain on bare soil. See that black stuff there…….That’s the end product of my organic matter that used to be a part of the soil. When heavy rain hits a bare soil surface, the force it carries with it creates a little explosion on the surface that actually separates the soil particles. You can see where it’s happened here. The OM has been separated from the sand and my soil is degrading…..leaving me with nothing but sand again on the surface…….harsh, harsh conditions. Look how the clover is establishing in the pile of separated OM…….I also see Mother Nature coming to the rescue as well to put a band-aid on my boo-boo…..Observe and ponder……

Someone answer this question concerning the last set of pics. It’s a simple one but should really make you go hmmmmmm…….

How did that broken down OM (humus) get into those piles like that????

Rain?

Flowing water…..……..When the rain hit the bare soil and separated the OM particles from the sand……the OM was put into suspension…..meaning that the sandier surface areas you see (that looks like concrete) we’re not allowing water to infiltrate the ground…… so the water was building up and moving across the field surface. The OM particles were floating within that water (in suspension) and moving with it. So how did it accumulate in those spots????

See that pile of surface mulch to the right of the pic…..That surface mulch slowed down the flow from the water and caused the OM to fall out of suspension in those piles when the flow stopped. This is just one of the many reasons why we keep “thatch” across the entire surface…..it helps control the movement of water…it keeps the water from being able to build up steam and flow across the surface. It slows it down and gives it a chance to infiltrate. It also protects the soil surface from the initial energy of the falling rain drop that caused the particles to separate in the first place. The thatch absorbs that impact. If heavy rain will separate soil particles and carry away the humus particles that are big enough for you to see with your eyes…..what do you think it’s doing to your fertilizer you applied?

An interesting side note……I forget what it’s called but they sell some stuff now in a bag that looks just like those little piles of black humus. It’s applied in order to accomplish the exact same thing as the humus you see in my field. This is a whole nuther can of worms though that I’ll hold off on for now.

Question: I get how this process works on an established plot. How do you get started on bare dirt to have that first round of thatch growing?

That’s what I call “getting out of the hole”. You have to approach the whole concept one step at a time, tailoring your approach as you progress. Step 1…..getting out of the hole……is a matter of growing enough vegetation to be able to cover the soil surface with "hay" once it terminates. That means you really need to pamper it and do what it takes to get those first couple crops to produce something. Cereal rye is your best bet on the fall rotation. Go ahead and plant in a traditional manner the first time if you don’t have any thatch to work with….Plant thick…..over seed bare areas once the field comes up if needed…….apply frequent low doses of N every 6-8 weeks all the way through spring until it matures and begin to get P, K, and Ca in line……..

If you’re dealing with really crappy soil like the sand you see in my pics…..you’ll be just as well to grow whatever mother nature sends up during the summer months. Look in the pic below again at where I’ve screwed the pooch…..exposed my soil…..and degraded it. Mother Nature is already sending in the calvary. My clover won’t grow there…..my rye didn’t even take hold…..but whatever in the hell that plant in the pic is….it’s got my back and is already trying to cover my mistake over with OM. It's probably not a coincidence that it's umbrella shaped. It’s not growing anywhere else….just where I messed up. These plants are designed to grow in these poor conditions where as many of the “crops” we plant are not. If were trying to produce as much biomass as possible under these conditions…..then you’re better off using the plants adapted for it. It much easier to accomplish in the summer with the native plants that emerge. Learn to work with nature instead of against her. Feed these plants and pamper them the same as you would a crop......We need BIOMASS.... We need ROOT STRUCTURE……When that's accomplished then worry about other things......

Medic!!!....

Have you thought of adding humus or peat to the thin areas of your fields?

Might kick start your process?

Due to cutting off a few toes I'm way behind on my plotting. I usually spray and go back and plant t&m a couple of weeks later. I'm thinking I'd not spraying and sowing my cereal rye before the next rain and bush hog the living vegetation over it. I figure most of these weeds will die off first frost anyway. Is this a bad idea?by not killing the vegetation does it not add to the biomass under the surface?

Yeah, I’ll have to look to see if I can find the name of it but that product I was referencing would probably be a good one to give you a jump start. I think it’s basically refined humus. It looks just like the small black particles in my pic. Just remember that its something to aid in jump starting the process and not a permanent fix for bad management practices. If I were closer to some chicken houses then I’d spread litter on it. To be honest, I was past the “kick starting” point until I set myself back by being too aggressive with the disk. It should be ok and recover though. The damage is pretty much just in the top inch or so of soil right now and I’ve got more topsoil full of humus in under this that I’ve built over the years. New plants will take hold and repair the areas I messed up. This is good example though of how repeated tillage in a sandy field like this will degrade your soil over time. Keep repeating this process and you’ll be left with nothing but sand like you see happening on my surface.

Yeah, it may look a little messy at first but you’ll be fine. The later you wait the better when not spraying. Once all the summer annuals go to seed then their life cycle is done and will terminate by mowing. Things like bermuda grass, crabgrass, nutsedge is what will bounce back on you if you have a lot. Most summer plants that do bounce back will terminate with the first frost.

Your "weed" looks like purslane.

Pretty certain it's edible.

Make you a salad out that stuff, Harold, and if it don't kill you or put you in the hospital, let us know what it taste like.

It is indeed purslane.......


http://web.extension.illinois.edu/cfiv/homeowners/030726.html

I am sure if it is edible the deer will wipe it out.

They darn sure will if its in a fertilized field. Every bit of it in my plots were browsed down to about an inch high, but only in places that have been fertilized.