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8 point
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8 point
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but he was an American citizen. Due process is one of the foundations of our Country. He was denied Due Process period. An American citizen, in another country and a leader of a terorrist group. A terroist group responsible for why we are at war now. His due process was a missle through his car window. Are some of you really this stupid? I guess I am. When Obama decides that rednecks equipped with hi-powered rifles under the guise of "hunting" are a threat to our nation & he feels no compunction to follow the law then, I'll still be stupid enough (in your eyes) to say he's wrong. Think about this: why do you suppose W never ordered Saddam assassinated? It's really pretty simple: he knew it was against the law, and he respected it enough to follow it.
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I am Cornholio
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I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,477 Likes: 6 |
Again, we aren't talking about a citizen here in our country. We are talking about a terroirst in another country. Not a president, a leader of a known terrorist group.
Either way, RON PAUL, will NOT get my vote.
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.
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Booner
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Booner
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Again, we aren't talking about a citizen here in our country. We are talking about a terroirst in another country. Not a president, a leader of a known terrorist group.
Either way, RON PAUL, will NOT get my vote.
BDHunts, Are you really like this in person? You start twisting words and ideas to take it totally out of context, then put a spin on it. What you say, is in direct conflict to whatever others are saying, just so you can be ANTI-anything.
An American citizen in America can be deemed an "unlawful enemy combatant" under the MCA: What does the MCA do?
Creates a broad definition of �unlawful enemy combatant.� The MCA�s definition of �unlawful enemy combatant� � a term which, prior to the MCA, had no meaning in U.S. or international law � applies to both citizens and non-citizens, and is broad, with the potential for constant expansion. It leaves in the hands of the President or Defense Secretary a nearly unrestricted authority to declare people �unlawful enemy combatants.�
Read about the MCA here, and know what you are talking about: MCA IV. CONCLUSION
The history of the development of the concept of unlawful enemy combatant is
of more than academic interest. The increasing breadth and malleability of the term
means that it can now catch many in its sweep that would not be considered
combatants under the law of war. These developments effectively provide that, at
least for unlawful enemy combatant status, potential detainees are back to the place
they were before Hamdi�the Executive branch has the authority to make an
essentially unreviewable decision about whether or not an individual can be detained
indefinitely. When signing the MCA, President Bush stated,
Over the past few months, the debate over this bill has been heated, and
the questions raised can seem complex. Yet, with the distance of history,
the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans
take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that
threat?68
The scope of the most recent definitions of unlawful enemy combatant in the
U.S. suggests that the threat�and its cure�will be determined by the President and
his advisors alone. [emphasis is mine]
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Joined: Dec 2004
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I am Cornholio
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I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,477 Likes: 6 |
One more time 49er, what would you have done differently, with this terrorist leader?
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,477 Likes: 6
I am Cornholio
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I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,477 Likes: 6 |
An American citizen in America can be deemed an "unlawful enemy combatant" under the MCA Again 49er, where was this terrorist, when he was killed?
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Booner
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Booner
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An American citizen in America can be deemed an "unlawful enemy combatant" under the MCA Again 49er, where was this terrorist, when he was killed? I don't know and neither do you.
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Booner
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Booner
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One more time 49er, what would you have done differently, with this terrorist leader?
First, where is the proof that he was a terrorist leader?
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Joined: Dec 2004
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I am Cornholio
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I am Cornholio
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 25,477 Likes: 6 |
If you’re a common sense person, you probably don’t feel you have a home in this world right now. If you’re a Christian, you know you were never meant to.
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Booner
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Booner
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Are some of you really this stupid?
Are some of you really that willing to throw the constitution of the United States under the Bus? Either you agree with the constitution or you don't...can't support only the parts of it that you like...that's what the liberals do.
Save the Little ones for the little ones
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8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2000
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So let me get this straight.I'm on patrol on the outskirts of Fallujah (which I was in 04-05).One of the the Marines in my squad has a change of heart and suddenly reveals his Islamic beliefs by turning on us and killing his own Marines.I am to believe we would not be justified in killing him before he kills all of us.I mean after all he is an American citizen he deserves due process.I THINK NOT!Give me a break.
Just for the record this is a fictional scenario,I'm just trying to make a point.
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
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the buzz is the Yemeni courts had issued a wanted dead or alive order, looks like we assisted
does the the Treason Law not cover this,
I've seen several laws posted on other forums that would seem to cover the situation but that due process keeps popping up
enemy combatant mean anything?
in my OP the end result was nice
like it or not there are many folks out there that like what happened and care less about the Constitutionality of it, and it's probably why Ron Paul will never be elected although I like him on many other issues
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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14 point
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14 point
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,655 |
Again, we aren't talking about a citizen here in our country. We are talking about a terroirst in another country. Not a president, a leader of a known terrorist group.
Either way, RON PAUL, will NOT get my vote.
BDHunts, Are you really like this in person? You start twisting words and ideas to take it totally out of context, then put a spin on it. What you say, is in direct conflict to whatever others are saying, just so you can be ANTI-anything.
An American citizen in America can be deemed an "unlawful enemy combatant" under the MCA: What does the MCA do?
Creates a broad definition of �unlawful enemy combatant.� The MCA�s definition of �unlawful enemy combatant� � a term which, prior to the MCA, had no meaning in U.S. or international law � applies to both citizens and non-citizens, and is broad, with the potential for constant expansion. It leaves in the hands of the President or Defense Secretary a nearly unrestricted authority to declare people �unlawful enemy combatants.�
Read about the MCA here, and know what you are talking about: MCA IV. CONCLUSION
The history of the development of the concept of unlawful enemy combatant is
of more than academic interest. The increasing breadth and malleability of the term
means that it can now catch many in its sweep that would not be considered
combatants under the law of war. These developments effectively provide that, at
least for unlawful enemy combatant status, potential detainees are back to the place
they were before Hamdi�the Executive branch has the authority to make an
essentially unreviewable decision about whether or not an individual can be detained
indefinitely. When signing the MCA, President Bush stated,
Over the past few months, the debate over this bill has been heated, and
the questions raised can seem complex. Yet, with the distance of history,
the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans
take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that
threat?68
The scope of the most recent definitions of unlawful enemy combatant in the
U.S. suggests that the threat�and its cure�will be determined by the President and
his advisors alone. [emphasis is mine] ONCE AGAIN, the context was dealing with an individual NOT on AMERICAN SOIL. Keep twisting it your way . You really are a desperate soul....
Genesis 27:3
Acts 10:11-15
Hunt Long, Hunt Hard and Safe
NRA LIFE MEMBER
"Odocoileus Virginianus"-Mother Nature's original fast food
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14 point
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14 point
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I've never blocked anyone before now. But you can't fix stupid.
Genesis 27:3
Acts 10:11-15
Hunt Long, Hunt Hard and Safe
NRA LIFE MEMBER
"Odocoileus Virginianus"-Mother Nature's original fast food
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
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There are some idiots on this site that live to argue with the majority. You guys need to consider this and take their "PLEASURE" away. Stop replying ,it will kill them.
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Booner
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Booner
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So let me get this straight.I'm on patrol on the outskirts of Fallujah (which I was in 04-05).One of the the Marines in my squad has a change of heart and suddenly reveals his Islamic beliefs by turning on us and killing his own Marines.I am to believe we would not be justified in killing him before he kills all of us.I mean after all he is an American citizen he deserves due process.I THINK NOT!Give me a break.
Just for the record this is a fictional scenario,I'm just trying to make a point. Not a valid comparison. Of course you can protect yourself and your Marines. However, if he just threatens to kill you and you inform your Superiors, Your superiors cannot order him murdered.
Save the Little ones for the little ones
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8 point
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8 point
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I disagree.I think it is a very valid camparison.This terrosist leader might as well be pulling the trigger or planting the bomb himself.He has raised money for terror operations provided training for operatives and picked targets.How much more of an enemy combatant can you be.He is a general instead of a private.He just finally made the mistake of staying in one place too long.
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
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I'm just glad the muslim POS is dead.
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Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
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This whole mess hinges on one's interpretation of substantive or procedural due process. I say interpretation because due process is something that courts constantly hear cases on.
I agree with Ron Paul on the importance of due process and on many other points about American intervention overseas.
The first question that I have to answer for myself is this: Was Anwar al-Awlaki owed due process?
To make that determination I need to look at the facts that are widely known to be true: Anwar al-Awlaki was a known and targeted terrorist who was openly leading a terrorist organization that has as its intent to kill Americans. He is a citizen of the US. He is a citizen of the US who left the US to wage war and to help wage war and to train others to wage war and to promote the wagging of war----against the US. He had been hunted. He was found and blown to bits.
My conclusion: Anwar al-Awlaki was a US citizen who at one time was owed due process of law, both substantive and procedural due process per the 5th and 14th Amendments to the US constitution. al-Awalki himself declined the right to due processs when he helped organized or actually did organized, trained, and funded terrorist attacks against the USA. The US gov't made it known that he was wanted for his crimes and he had every opportunity to us his network of sources to arrange to turn himself in to US authorities to come back to the US to receive due process and his trial. He did not do anything of the sort.
Due process is designed to restrain and limit government power so that it cannot treat its citizens unfairly. I think allof us can see how important this truly is to the American way of life where freedom and liberty is cherished. But with great freedom to a citizenry comes great responsibility of that citizenry as well. al-Alwaki passed on his responsibility by waging war on this country. In my mind, this is where his right to due process ended. If I ever engaged in the terrorist crimes that he did, I would expect my due process rights to be seen as ended as well.
My interpretation and views of due process may never stand up to the SCOTUS standards and I don't care. Their decision making on other issues does not give me great peace of mind anyway. Ron Paul is a great choice for President, but on this singular issue I will say he is wrong.
Last edited by straycat; 10/02/11 09:56 PM.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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10 point
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10 point
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Posts: 3,094 |
couldnt disagree more with ron paul on this. That man lost any protection he was due under the constitution the minute he swore alliegance to those committed to its destruction.
"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
George Orwell
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10 point
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10 point
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What part of the constitution did the Obama administration violate in killing a leader of Al Queda (who has declared war on the US)?
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