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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,022
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
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Do you want to hear him gobble, or do you want to kill him.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,885
10 point
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10 point
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Posts: 2,885 |
This is called a greedy trashbag taking advantage of a system put in place to assist with losses to his income. Sounds like he's using it to his advantage against the purpose of the permit. WTF, I don't see anyplace where jacannon said the man was letting people kill bucks and have them mounted. He simply asked if it were legal for him to do that and I am pretty dam sure it is not.
"Its a damn weak minded person who can only think of one way to spell a work." Andrew Jackson
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
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Apparently he told jacannon that was his intention. Would you not agree based on what he posted? Or are you the landowner in question BJ?
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,885
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,885 |
Actually Matt, the way I read it he was planning on asking the land owner to let HIM do that. But FYI, I am not the land owener. On my land I get ready to eliminate something I do it and keep it to my self, as most others probaly do. That will go for road kills in the future, as well.:-) 
Last edited by Big Jack; 09/16/11 06:07 PM.
"Its a damn weak minded person who can only think of one way to spell a work." Andrew Jackson
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,046 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,046 Likes: 135 |
 Actually Matt, the way I read it he was planning on asking the land owner to let HIM do that. But FYI, I am not the land owener. On my land I get ready to eliminate something I do it and keep it to my self, as most others probaly do. That will go for road kills in the future, as well.:-)
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Matt Brock
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Matt Brock
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Boydawg, don't worry. You're not the one confused in this case. 
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,046 Likes: 135
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,046 Likes: 135 |
I have trouble following many of BJ's posts. These last two on this thread really had me scratching my head. Boydawg, don't worry. You're not the one confused in this case.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 868
6 point
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6 point
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the permits we got last year didn't say anything about antlers but you have to leave them lay...........tony
take your kids hunting and you won't be hunting your kids
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
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I feel pretty certain that the current permits do not make any mention of antlers.....
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
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The one I have is a couple of years old, but it had this in the box above my signature: This permit is an acknowlegement that the property involved is being adversely affected by wildlife. It is the responsibility of the permittee to use only
those reasonable methods which do not present a danger to people or property in the removal of the wildlife. By accepting this permit, the permittee
agrees to abide by all state and local laws and ordinances. ONLY UNANTLERED DEER MAY BE KILLED UNDER THIS PERMIT. No permittee
may accept anything of value from a person in exchange for particitpating in the taking of wildlife under this permit. I got one because some of the people on our lease wanted to bait and trap hogs. I figured even if I was hunting them legally, if somebody had bait or a trap in the "area", whatever that means, I would have a permit to cover me. Where I grew up, a man's word is his bond. If you agree to abide by the law, then that's what you should do, IMO. 
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Booner
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Booner
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Actually, I think it is VERY hypocritical of you to take advantage of a Program that have constantly declared as illegal.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Booner
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Booner
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I'm not surprised that you would try to find fault with anything I do.
The only thing I did differently was to carry a permit in my pocket while I continued to hunt legally as I agreed to do when I signed the permit. My conscience is clear. That's what matters to me.
Do you honor your word when you use your permit?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
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Your posts continually promote Civil Disobedience while questioning the Authority of the ALDCNR.
BUT, you once again prove that you do not have the backbone tto fight the battle that you are actively promoting.
Just my opinion!
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Booner
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Booner
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Your posts continually promote Civil Disobedience... Give one example where I have promoted civil disobedience. For quick reference: civil disobedience
noun
Definition of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE
: refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government I doubt if you will find anyone who has advocated following first, our constitutions, and second, the laws that conform to those constitutions any more than I have. Pointing out the illegality of various rules is not disobedience of the law. Your criticism is misguided and way off base. Why don't you either defend the permit system or join me in seeing it for the illegal sham it really is? Your view of my personality has little to do with the matter. Either the system is illegal or it is not. And it is clearly illegal in my opinion. A simple and legal solution would be to de-classify feral hogs as game animals or, as the law refers to them, protected animals. Then they could be legally hunted day and night, baited and trapped and hunted effectively without requiring hunters to become liars as a condition of using a permit to keep them from being prosecuted for doing something that is clearly illegal. Instead of requiring deer to be killed and left to feed feral hogs and coyotes or else to rot, the antlerless deer hunting season could be extended as allowed and intended by law. That is the ethical and legal solution to that problem. Now, where in all this did you see me advocate civil disobedience?
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Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
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I disagree with the permits.
I am not a lawyer, nor a judge, so I am not certain as to their 'legality'.
But, to so vehemently disagree with something while actively engaging in it is hypocritical.
That ain't a personal attack on you; just a logical conclusion.
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Booner
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Booner
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You're dancing all around what you know to be the truth.
Is it illegal to hunt game animals at night? You know it is.
Is it illegal to hunt game animals over bait? You know it is.
Is it illegal to trap game animals? You know it is.
I have done none of those things, yet you accuse me of particitpating in the program.
You don't have to be a lawyer to see the truth and tell it like it is. You only need to be willing to do it Danny.
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Booner
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Booner
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Really not sure.....
Coons are 'game animals' and can ONLY be hunted at night.
They can also be trapped.
I definitely agree on the bait issue, though!
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Booner
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Booner
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Maybe you dont' know the laws as much as I thought you did. My bad if that's true. Since we agree that hunting over bait is illegal, I'll leave it at that. This should help: Here's a good place to start: Section 9-11-245
Unlawful methods of hunting birds or animals protected by law or regulation.
No person shall at any time make use of any pitfall, deadfall, baited field, cage, trap, net, pen, baited hook, snare, poison, explosive, or chemical for the purpose of injuring, capturing, or killing birds or animals protected by law or regulation of this state. This section shall not prevent the trapping of animals classified as fur-bearing animals by a duly licensed fur catcher. It shall be legal to use a scaffold for gun hunting of all legal game species except wild turkey and to use a scaffold for bow hunting of all legal game species.
(Acts 1951, No. 1001, p. 1672, �2; Acts 1975, No. 195, p. 681, �1; Acts 1995, No. 95-563, p. 1174, �1.) Rule of the commissioner: 220-2-.30 Fur-Bearing Animals Designated
The following shall be named and designated as fur-bearing animals in
Alabama:
Beaver, Bobcat, Civet Cat, Fox, Mink, Muskrat, Nutria, Opossum,
Otter, Raccoon, Skunk, and Coyote... Deer and feral hogs are classified as game animals but neither are classified as fur-bearing animals which means they cannot be legally trapped. To legally trap coyotes, you need a fur catchers license and knowlege of the trapping laws and regulations. Rule of the commissioner: 220-2-.06 Game Animals Designated
The following animals are hereby designated as game animals: Bear,
Beaver, Coyote, Deer, Opossum, Rabbit, Raccoon, Squirrel, Nutria, Fox,
Mountain Lion (Cougar), Groundhog, Bobcat, Red Wolf, Feral Swine (Wild
Hog), except those feral swine reduced to the personal possession of a
landowner or his agent, provided, however, that notwithstanding such
reduction to personal possession, in the event such feral swine are hunted,
they shall at such time of hunting be designated as game animals. Raccoons and coyotes are classified both as game animals and fur-bearing animals. They can be legally trapped by licensed fur catchers. That should clear up the trapping part for you. Now, about hunting game animals at night: Law Section 9-11-235
Taking, etc., of protected birds or animals, raccoons or opossums at night; nighttime hunting of foxes with dogs.
It shall be unlawful, except as to trapping as otherwise provided by law, for a person to take, capture, or kill, or attempt to take, capture, or kill any bird or animal protected by the laws of this state between sunset and daylight of the following day, except that the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources may by a duly promulgated regulation, allow the taking, catching, or killing of raccoons and opossums between sunset and daylight in any county or counties within the state. In any county where the taking, catching, or killing of raccoons and opossums is permitted during nighttime hours by regulations of the commissioner, the animals may only be legally taken with the use of a light and/or a shotgun using shot no larger than number eight, and the person or persons so hunting shall be accompanied by a dog or dogs and, if hunting on the lands of another, shall have the written permission of the landowner.
Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished for the first offense by a fine of not less than two thousand dollars ($2,000) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) and may be imprisoned in the county jail for a period not to exceed six months. In addition, the court shall revoke all hunting license privileges for a period of three years from the date of conviction.
No provision of this section shall be construed to prohibit the nighttime hunting of foxes with dogs.(Acts 1935, No. 383, p. 813, �5; Code 1940, T. 8, �86; Acts 1949, No. 662, p. 1026, �1; Acts 1953, No. 767, p. 1028, �1; Acts 1982, No. 82-488, p. 811, �1; Acts 1995, No. 95-215, p. 252, �2; Act 2008-384, p. 714, �1.) Raccoons, opposums and foxes can be hunted at night if the commissioner allows it. Nothing in that law allows the commissioner to permit hunting deer, coyotes or feral hogs at night. [Note that the law defines "night" as sunset to daylight. The commissioner's rules allow hunting during "daylight hours". The law is supposed to prevail in case of a conflict between a law and a rule.]And to make it even clearer: Law Section 9-11-251
Taking, etc., of deer at night.
It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to take, capture or kill deer at night in Alabama by any means or device, including but not limited to the use of any type of light.
(Acts 1971, No. 2309, p. 3731, �2.) Our legislature made the penalties for hunting deer at night pretty severe. They were serious about that. There are plenty of other laws that I could cite that support what I'm telling you. I'll leave it to you to read them if you are interested, and I'll help you find them if you need me to. Constitution of Alabama 1901 SECTION 21
Suspension of laws.
That no power of suspending laws shall be exercised except by the legislature. Where did you hear that you cannot hunt raccoons during daylight? (g) RACCOON:
5 Per Person � Private Owned and Leased Lands
September 1 � February 28
5 Per Party � Open Permit-Public Land
September 1 � February 28
No running of dogs during daytime or after 3:00 A.M. during and
in areas of spring turkey season.
_______________________________________________________
(h) OPOSSUM: No Bag Limit September 1 � February 28
No running of dogs during daytime or after 3:00 A.M. during and
in areas of spring turkey season.
_______________________________________________________
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Posts: 12,788
Booner
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Booner
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Posts: 12,788 |
Ok, that is what I 'thought'.
But, as previously stated, I am NOT a lawyer, judge nor legal expert.
That does not change the fact that you have actively participated in the very acts you are declaring illegal!
Is that not hypocritical?
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Booner
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Booner
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Posts: 10,997 |
I have not participated in acts that I have declared to be illegal. You need to get that thru your head Danny.
Signing a piece of paper stating that I will abide by all state laws and local ordinances and carrying it in my pocket while I hunt legally is not an illegal act. Using that piece of paper to hunt illegally while the employees of the DCNR turn their heads and allow it to be done without taking legal action is what is illegal.
The only benefit I saw to having the paper on me was to prevent getting a ticket due to my unintentional hunting near where someone on our lease had placed a trap or bait without my knowlege. The only other reasonable alternatives for me would have been to not hunt at all or to hunt without the permit and place myself in a postion of being vulnerable to prosecution and a long hard fight in court to prove my innocence. I don't see that as hypocrisy like you do. I see it as using common sense to deal with a problem I did not create.
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