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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,166 Likes: 6
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,166 Likes: 6 |
We have a farmer that has aprox. 200 acres under cultivation across the road from our lease. He has always had depredation permits and shot deer at night. Is it legal for him to bring hunters in from out of state that are trying to kill mature bucks in full velvet to mount? I got a little sick when he told me this.
Grandma said...Always keep a gun close at hand, you just never know when you might run across some varmint that needs killing...
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,058
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,058 |
I'd say no. If not that's what the answer should be.
jmlane
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 917
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 917 |
Call the local DCNR office and ask.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,056 Likes: 138
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,056 Likes: 138 |
X2 Where are you when we need you Bhamfred?
Last edited by Boydawg; 09/15/11 02:52 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
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I'd be raising holy sand storms of fit rage right now.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,022
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,022 |
Do you want to hear him gobble, or do you want to kill him.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700
THE Octopus
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THE Octopus
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700 |
My grandpa had that same permits when he farmed and the best I can remember we couldn't even touch the deer after we killed it. That was 15 years ago so it may have changed. All you were supposed to do was kill em and leave em.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,996
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,996 |
I'd be raising holy sand storms of fit rage right now. I agree with Matt on this one!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,264 Likes: 18
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,264 Likes: 18 |
Depends on what the depredation permit allows ...
I thought anything killed on one of those had to lay in the field. If someone is targeting bucks specifically and taking them to be mounted, that would seem to be "hunting" and not depredation.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Matt Brock
Unregistered
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Matt Brock
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This is called a greedy trashbag taking advantage of a system put in place to assist with losses to his income. Sounds like he's using it to his advantage against the purpose of the permit.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 128
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 128 |
I think the permits are unantlered deer only at least thats what the farmers around here that had them said.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,056 Likes: 138
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 40,056 Likes: 138 |
The permits I've seen state unantlered deer only and they must be left in the field. You think this guy is just pulling you're chain? Anyone that would really do that is a fool and then talk about it, well I guess he'd be the biggest fool in Alabama! There's a guy in Jackson Co. that was on a crop damage permit that killed a huge buck a couple of years ago. He had it mounted, wardens confiscated it. I think maybe he got fined. I'm sure the DCNR would treat it very serious.
"Why do you ask"?
Too many people spend money they don't have , on things they don't need, to impress people they don't know.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,407 Likes: 69
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,407 Likes: 69 |
highly illegal, turn his stupid arse in...
I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....
proud Cracker-Americaan
muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735 |
highly illegal, turn his stupid arse in... X2...please turn him in.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 |
I am pretty certain that the permits do not specify 'antlerless'.
BUT, the practice you are describing is illegal.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,598 |
I have always heard and been told that the permits are antlerless only, BUT I have never actually laid eyes on one.
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,221
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,221 |
Turn him in, it's that simple. That or don't complain about it.
BTR Scorer in NW Alabama
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,488 Likes: 1
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,488 Likes: 1 |
I don't think it's right, but I doubt it's technically illegal if they can get around the "leaving the body" where it lay. When we used to shoot them on permits, it was always in the summer and we had to either leave them where they fell literally or arrange for the local jail to come pick them up. They (jail) never did and we left them alone. Some folks got paid minimum wage plus their ammo and fuel to be shooters. I swear I think that's how the coyote population exploded in Wilcox County. The fun wore off about an hour into the first night. I think one summer we killed over 700 does and 2 bucks off 4 landowners in a 10 mile radius. The skies were dark with vultures. I'd never do it again.
not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 |
I don't think it's right, but I doubt it's technically illegal if they can get around the "leaving the body" where it lay. When we used to shoot them on permits, it was always in the summer and we had to either leave them where they fell literally or arrange for the local jail to come pick them up. They (jail) never did and we left them alone. Some folks got paid minimum wage plus their ammo and fuel to be shooters. I swear I think that's how the coyote population exploded in Wilcox County. The fun wore off about an hour into the first night. I think one summer we killed over 700 does and 2 bucks off 4 landowners in a 10 mile radius. The skies were dark with vultures. I'd never do it again. Here's what our legislature authorized the DCNR to do when crop depredation exists: Code of Alabama 1975 Section 9-11-240
Opening of season for hunting, etc., of female deer and unantlered male deer.
Any law of the State of Alabama to the contrary notwithstanding, the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources is hereby authorized to open a season in any county, area or section of the state for the hunting, taking, capturing and killing of female deer or unantlered male deer by a duly promulgated regulation when, in his best judgment, he deems it necessary for biological reasons or because of crop damage to open the season on such deer, provided this meets with the approval of the landowner or leaseholder.
(Acts 1966, Ex. Sess., No. 180, p. 213, � 1.) You guys are talking about the man holding the permit breaking the law. Let's talk about the DCNR breaking the law: Constitution of Alabama 1901 Article I Declaration of Rights SECTION 21
Suspension of laws.
That no power of suspending laws shall be exercised except by the legislature.
Article III Distribution of Powers of Government. SECTION 43
Separation of powers.
In the government of this state, except in the instances in this Constitution hereinafter expressly directed or permitted, the legislative department shall never exercise the executive and judicial powers, or either of them; the executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them; the judicial shall never exercise the legislative and executive powers, or either of them; to the end that it may be a government of laws and not of men.
Code of Alabama 1975 Section 13A-2-23
Criminal liability based upon behavior of another - Complicity.
A person is legally accountable for the behavior of another constituting a criminal offense if, with the intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense:
(1) He procures, induces or causes such other person to commit the offense; or
(2) He aids or abets such other person in committing the offense; or
(3) Having a legal duty to prevent the commission of the offense, he fails to make an effort he is legally required to make.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, �415.) Section 9-2-6
Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources - Powers and duties generally.
All functions and duties of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources shall be exercised by the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources acting by himself or by and through such administrative divisions or such officers or employees as he may designate. The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have all power and authority necessary or convenient to carry out the functions and duties of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. In the performance of such functions and duties and in the exercise of such powers and authorities, the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources and all other officers and employees of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources shall, however, be subject to all legal restrictions, limitations and conditions and penalties, civil and criminal, with respect to the performance of such functions and duties and the exercise of such powers and authorities.(Acts 1939, No. 162, p. 255, � 7; Code 1940, T. 8, �6.) Section 9-2-8
Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources - Promulgation of rules and regulations as to game, fish and seafood; publication and distribution of laws, etc.
The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources is authorized to make and promulgate such reasonable rules and regulations not in conflict with the provisions of the game and fish laws as he may deem for the best interest of the conservation, protection and propagation of wild game, birds, animals, fish and seafoods, which rules and regulations shall have the effect of law; ... [b]The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall publish in pamphlet form for general distribution all laws together with such rules and regulations relating to game, birds, fish, fur bearers, seafoods and other matters over which such Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources has authority or supervision. Such pamphlet so published shall be received in evidence without further proof of such rules and regulations in any court of this state.[/b](Acts 1935, No. 240, p. 632, �� 20, 23; Code 1940, T. 8, §21; Acts 1943, No. 531, p. 505, � 1.) [emphasis is mine] Where is the pamphlet?? Where are the rules published that are found on a depredation permit? Section 9-2-12
Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources - Promulgation of rules and regulations for department.
The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have and exercise all rule-making powers of any division of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources subject to the provisions of Section 9-2-15. The Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall have power and authority to establish and promulgate rules and regulations, including amendments and repeals thereof, with respect to the manner of performance of all functions and duties of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, which rules and regulations shall be reasonably calculated to effect the expeditious and efficient performance of such functions and duties and shall not be in conflict with applicable statutes. The rule-making power of the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources shall not be delegated, except as otherwise expressly provided.
(Acts 1939, No. 162, p. 255, � 8; Code 1940, T. 8, �7.) [emphasis is mine] The commissioner swore to support our constitutions and to faithfully execute his duties. The landowner/permittee signed his permit that stated the following: This permit is an acknowlegement that the property involved is being adversely affected by wildlife. It is the responsibility of the permittee to use only
those reasonable methods which do not present a danger to people or property in the removal of the wildlife. By accepting this permit, the permittee
agrees to abide by all state and local laws and ordinances. ONLY UNANTLERED DEEr MAY BE KILLED UNDER THIS PERMIT. No permittee
may accept anything of value from a person in exchange for particitpating in the taking of wildlife under this permit. It is against state law to: - hunt game animals out of season - hunt game animals except possums, raccoons and foxes at night - hunt game animals with the aid of bait - trap game animals The Commissioner and the landowner both agreed to abide by all state laws. Both have broken their word and both have violated state law. Which one of them is worse?
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