Aldeer.com Forums Alabama Deer Talk Aldeer General Forum Roy Moore

You just stated they wanted a constitution molded to the needs of the majority yet you are defending the point that liberal judges are ruling in favor of a very small minority. Which is it?

You might want to back up and go do a little more reading. The constitution was framed with the rights of the individual being the number one priority. It was set in place to make sure collectivism didn't supercede individual rights.

You'll really enjoy the good ole US of A dirkdaddy if the majority of it is muslim.....well, until they behead or burn you.

#fruitloop

wasting yer time bill, dirkdaddy took a history class once...

I am with Bill on this one. It is about the individual, not the majority.

We live in a democratic republic which combines both aspects. But overall after a period of years the majority does get its way, but the process is muchh slower, less violent, and less turbulent than a true democracy, which is esentislly chaos. But at the end of the day majority rules, because we use a majority to vote everyone that currently holds office in. And they make the decisions. If the majority doesn't like those decisions then they get voted out.

I think this post clears up any questions I had about your understanding of the Constitution and pretty much anything else on this subject. I'm out.

"Several ideas in the Constitution were new. These were associated with the combination of consolidated government along with federal relationships with constituent states.
The Due Process Clause of the Constitution was partly based on common law and on Magna Carta (1215), which had become a foundation of English liberty against arbitrary power wielded by a tyrant.
Both the influence of Edward Coke and William Blackstone were evident at the Convention. In his Institutes of the Lawes of England, Edward Coke interpreted Magna Carta protections and rights to apply not just to nobles, but to all British subjects. In writing the Virginia Charter of 1606, he enabled the King in Parliament to give those to be born in the colonies all rights and liberties as though they were born in England. William Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England were the most influential books on law in the new republic.
British political philosopher John Locke following the Glorious Revolution was a major influence expanding on the contract theory of government advanced by Thomas Hobbes. Locke advanced the principle of consent of the governed in his Two Treatises of Government. Government's duty under a social contract among the sovereign people was to serve them by protecting their rights. These basic rights were life, liberty and property.
Montesquieu emphasized the need for balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny (reflecting the influence of Polybius's 2nd century BC treatise on the checks and balances of the Roman Republic). In his The Spirit of the Laws, Montesquieu argues that the separation of state powers should be by its service to the people's liberty: legislative, executive and judicial.
Division of power in a republic was informed by the British experience with mixed government, as well as the study of republics ancient and modern. A substantial body of thought had been developed from the literature of republicanism in the United States, including work by John Adams and applied to the creation of state constitutions." From wikipedia

Nothing biblical went into the framing of our constitution. It was the study of other governments and what their failures/shortcomings were that went into the framing, not some biblical doctrine. I see a lot of philosophical reasoning and references to greece and rome in the above excerpt, not one thing about biblical principles. They (biblical principles) weren't what our founding fathers were looking at when making the constitution, I am sorry to burst your bubbles.

Someone learned to cut and paste.

It's amazing. It only took us a little over 200 years to finally figure out what our founding fathers "intended". We've had it wrong this whole time.

do they offer refunds on that edumacation?

You are still missing the big picture, in my opinion. I write this not as a way to bash you, but to present the Truth.

Yes, our founders were very intelligent men who were also learned in the ways of various governments and political thought. They used this knowledge and wisdom in creating our Federal Republic.

Further, they did in fact draw upon their knowledge of history in order to integrate the look and feel of certain aspects of the newly formed government from other republics and governmental models in history. They knew what would work best.

But what you are missing is the message behind the formation of OUR country and the reformation message that impacted other political documents and governments in history. That message has its roots in the transformation power of God and His ability to not only reform but to transform the hearts and minds of mankind.

For so long nations & civilizations both prospered and failed under Kings, tyrants, rulers, and nobles--where often class systems, brutality, servitude and slavery enchained the common man and family. In these systems, Honor, Goodness and Virtue from a governmental or law perspective didn't flow down to the individual. Individual had very few rights and were typically at the mercy of their masters/kings and bound to their birth situation.

The message concerning government and behavior of all people found in the Bible from the beginning, to Jewish times, and up and continuing on from Christ Jesus--was a different model. Not a model of worldly valued rule or action, but one of Honor, Virtue, and Goodness--based on two simple things: Love of God and Love for Others. Obviously not all Jewish rulers (nor the people) honored the Lord in their governing, but the model was there to follow. Christ continued to advance the model and to perfect it with His blood on the Cross.

From the beginning God is the one and only author of morality and moral law, either intangible and written on our hearts such as the inherent knowing of right vs. wrong/good vs. evil--or--the tangible and actual written word of God as found in the Bible. These are the foundations of every single moral law and rule that has ever existed. Natural Law and God is the Author. A look in history reveals how governments/rulers/civilizations either rejected or adopted these ideals. It was common in the ancient times for certain things to be universally wrong---murder, theft, injustice, etc...even in civilization that did not have God's law or the Bible. Pagan cultures, remote tribes, even advanced civilizations outside of Jewish influences (example ancient China) all ahd some commonality in their laws that advance some form of morality and justice. How could this be? It can be because God is the author of Natural Law and Absolute Truth and He wrote in on the hearts of all mankind. Some rejected, true, but others inherently knew what is right and wrong.

The Apostle Paul explains it best in Romans 2:14-16
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

**Pay attention here****

It is from these Natural Laws/Absolute Truth that God designed & established, from Biblical precepts that God wrote & ordained and established, from Jewish codified law that the Lord inspired, from the teachings of Christ that are recorded in the Bible and the Gospel message that swept through the Middle East and Europe and the world over----THESE COLLECTIVELY had an impact on other governments of antiquity. The very notion of right vs. wrong; government; the checks and balances in branches of government; the idea of individual rights; the concept of justice; the adoption of moral law to promote Honor, Goodness and Virtue---are all Biblical Principles for they are from God. So we see these concepts and principles in Greece and Rome and England--even though they were not God followers and didn't go directly to the Bible for inspiration. Inside their being, they knew what God's ways were even without knowing God personally.

Add to that that God is alive and active, not some distant observer. God's Will shall in fact be done because God is sovereign. God's hand has been at work since the beginning on the hearts and minds of individuals and of nations. It is no coincidence that some great governmental models came to be that sought to promote principles that God accepts as good.

As our Founding Fathers drew upon their understanding, experience and knowledge to form this great nation--they understood that God and His Providence had laid out a path for them to capture freedom and liberty from oppression and worldly government--allowing them to create this great beacon of hope and opportunity we call the United States. They embraced the Biblical precepts and ideas as being of such high quality and good for life that they knew a country founded upon them would benefit all. It is true too that other governments of antiquity also had instituted Biblical concepts into their rule of law, even without knowing they had done so. How? Because God has written on the hearts of all mankind His values and His Truths. It is from this and the bible where the genesis of our founding began.

To say that our founding was purely secular based and that Biblical principles were not part of the fabric of the foundation is simply completely wrong and misguided. A true and deep look at history reveals how God and his handiwork has been designed, instituted, and revealed over the generations. God is the author and His ways are woven into the hearts and minds of men--even those who reject Him as Lord; into the institutions of government and law across the globe since the dawn of time--even in nations that reject him. However, without a Biblical Worldview it is hard to see.

A secular Worldview sees man in control and man as the genesis of thought and ideals. Man's law is just that---man made law based on philosophy and self rule. God's natural law, God's moral law, God's design for institutions and government have no "shelf space" in this world view. But that is deception at its finest. Satan seeks to keep us separated from knowing God, so in a world that will not acknowledge Him, rejects Him and will not understand how God has been working since the beginning--it is a deception.

As an American, I fully support your rights to voice your thoughts, ideas and opinions. As a follower of Christ, I must argue the validity of the points you make and encourage you to see the Truth from God, through his son Jesus Christ.

I said I was done on this thread, and I am indeed done speaking about gay marriage and Justice Moore. But I was lead to at least give an answer for the affirmative position that God was active in establishing the United State of America.

I apologize for the long post, but somethings cannot be said in short versions--at least I'm not capable.

good post Straycat, one thing is for sure you didn't type all that from an iPhone

Roy Moore is a total tool.

Well I'm quoting myself from 2015.....imagine that.

What is the hot topic today just a few months over a year from the gay marriage/roy moore thread? Yep you guessed it...Transgendered rights and Sexual/gender identity. Progressives do not stop...they are masters at the slow play/long con.

Nibble here, nibble there....every so often a pushing of the envelope then retreat and let hollywood take over to indoctrinate the masses...then push the agenda again until they gain ground.

Gay Marriage issue....check. (Still a few battles to fight but overall it is done)

Next up...Transgendered/Gender Identity. We are in the throws of the first agenda push after having some Hollywood indoctrination for several years. So what did they pick...personal privacy issue of bathroom use. Here it comes. Over the next 2 years this will be debated heavily, especially if another liberal or moderate is appointed to the SCOTUS.

After transgendered....wonder what will be next?

Death by a thousand cuts. That's what it is.

This was an entertaining thread to read, as most on here are

Making pedophilia legal will be the next push.