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Key:
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,638 Likes: 1
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,638 Likes: 1 |
I know they say control burns do more good than harm, but doing it during nesting season seems like a bad time. My dad found this today at oakmulgee. [img:center]  [/img] Maybe she'll start over and lay another clutch. At the rate they are burning down there, there's no telling how many nests get fried like this.
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 549
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 549 |
You need to call the biologist or forest office ASAP. Might be able to push the dates back or something. Hate to see that.
Good luck
Boom
HRCH Superchamp's Pocket Change MH, "PESO"
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 821
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 821 |
If the nest is lost the hen will get bred again and start another nest.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 206
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 206 |
5 to 6 yrs ago hunting was pretty darn good on oakmulgee it seems that they have started to burn a little late aswell and I think it's hurting the hunting. They set some fires five years ago really late and it was so hot it killed mature longleaf stands. I know dang well it got plenty of nests cause it was a April burn really late time frame..The management of oakmulgee is questionable in my eyes.Not against burning just done in the right time frame or don't do it at all.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16 |
A destroyed nest is a destroyed nest. Spend all that time trapping nest robbers only to burn them up, when a shift in time frame would be just as beneficial. Either destroying nests are bad or it isn't.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071 |
A destroyed nest is a destroyed nest. Spend all that time trapping nest robbers only to burn them up, when a shift in time frame would be just as beneficial. Either destroying nests are bad or it isn't. Word!!
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,447 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,447 Likes: 17 |
Burning or mowing right now is plain stupid. You'd think that people in the game management business would know that burning or mowing during the primary nesting season is a bad idea
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,638 Likes: 1
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,638 Likes: 1 |
A destroyed nest is a destroyed nest. Spend all that time trapping nest robbers only to burn them up, when a shift in time frame would be just as beneficial. Either destroying nests are bad or it isn't. Yep!
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
Burning or mowing right now is plain stupid. You'd think that people in the game management business would know that burning or mowing during the primary nesting season is a bad idea Nice to know my 3 degrees in wildlife/timber management and 30 plus years experience "in the game management business" managing deer, turkeys and quail was such a waste and I am still so stupid! Amazing how that background gets trumped by folks with other career choices making recommendations. We burn up turkey nests on occasion and on the places we do, you would be amazed at the number of turkeys. A burned nest is NOT simply a burned nest. If you go step on one and crush all the eggs, I would agree - a waste. If it gets destroyed in the process of making or creating better habitat, it is often worth the loss. Natural resource management is not as simple as some of you would like to think.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 441
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 441 |
Burning or mowing right now is plain stupid. You'd think that people in the game management business would know that burning or mowing during the primary nesting season is a bad idea Nice to know my 3 degrees in wildlife/timber management and 30 plus years experience "in the game management business" managing deer, turkeys and quail was such a waste and I am still so stupid! Amazing how that background gets trumped by folks with other career choices making recommendations. We burn up turkey nests on occasion and on the places we do, you would be amazed at the number of turkeys. A burned nest is NOT simply a burned nest. If you go step on one and crush all the eggs, I would agree - a waste. If it gets destroyed in the process of making or creating better habitat, it is often worth the loss. Natural resource management is not as simple as some of you would like to think. Gotta agree. There is not one perfect time for all management activities and occasionally there's a little collateral damage.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
Give you a good 2 situation example. Met with a client we have been working with for 10 years plus. Fixed up a few thousand acres of IP pine plantation land to become a wildlife haven near Union Springs. We typically burn in April (sometimes May) on a 3 year rotation. Want it a little late to better control the bushes and saplings in the pines and NOT burn in hardwood. Burning after green up keeps fire out of hardwoods usually and does an immensely better job of sapling hardwood control. Burning in the growing season also does a much better job of stimulating native grasses and forbs/legumes. Winter burns SUCK at controlling sapling hardwood. The "manager" was complaining about burning late and burning up nests. Bear in mind most of the uplands are excellent grassy nesting cover (maybe 2/3 of the place) and the sections we plan on burning (maybe 1/5 of the place) are getting rough and loaded with fuel - NOT the best nesting cover. My simple question to him was are there more or less turkeys on the place than when we started our burn program - his simple answer was WAY more, more than there have been in 30 years he has hunted it.
Second scenario, met with a landowner last week about setting up a burning program. The section he wanted to burn was thinned 3 years ago and burned 2 years ago, maybe 200 acres. He wanted to burn it all. The rest of the property was heavy canopy mixed pine/hardwood and thick pine plantation or 1 year old plantation. I told him there was no way I would recommend burning all of the nesting cover on his place during the middle of nesting season or he would burn up all the nests on the place. Different scenario, therefore different recommendations. He agreed to let us burn the thick pine plantation that will be thinned this summer and then burn the thinned pine next spring BEFORE nesting season. Again, it's not as simple as "destroying nests is bad or it isn't" unless you have a simplistic concept of wildlife management and only understand the fundamentals.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16 |
A burned nest is NOT simply a burned nest. Actually, it really is that simple.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16 |
Give you a good 2 situation example. Met with a client we have been working with for 10 years plus. Fixed up a few thousand acres of IP pine plantation land to become a wildlife haven near Union Springs. We typically burn in April (sometimes May) on a 3 year rotation. Want it a little late to better control the bushes and saplings in the pines and NOT burn in hardwood. Burning after green up keeps fire out of hardwoods usually and does an immensely better job of sapling hardwood control. Burning in the growing season also does a much better job of stimulating native grasses and forbs/legumes. Winter burns SUCK at controlling sapling hardwood. The "manager" was complaining about burning late and burning up nests. Bear in mind most of the uplands are excellent grassy nesting cover (maybe 2/3 of the place) and the sections we plan on burning (maybe 1/5 of the place) are getting rough and loaded with fuel - NOT the best nesting cover. My simple question to him was are there more or less turkeys on the place than when we started our burn program - his simple answer was WAY more, more than there have been in 30 years he has hunted it.
Second scenario, met with a landowner last week about setting up a burning program. The section he wanted to burn was thinned 3 years ago and burned 2 years ago, maybe 200 acres. He wanted to burn it all. The rest of the property was heavy canopy mixed pine/hardwood and thick pine plantation or 1 year old plantation. I told him there was no way I would recommend burning all of the nesting cover on his place during the middle of nesting season or he would burn up all the nests on the place. Different scenario, therefore different recommendations. He agreed to let us burn the thick pine plantation that will be thinned this summer and then burn the thinned pine next spring BEFORE nesting season. Again, it's not as simple as "destroying nests is bad or it isn't" unless you have a simplistic concept of wildlife management and only understand the fundamentals. In your first example, how many thousand actre blocks are you burning at the same time?
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,678
I'm Honey Lou Lou and I voted for Obama... Twice!!!
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I'm Honey Lou Lou and I voted for Obama... Twice!!!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,678 |
5 to 6 yrs ago hunting was pretty darn good on oakmulgee it seems that they have started to burn a little late aswell and I think it's hurting the hunting. They set some fires five years ago really late and it was so hot it killed mature longleaf stands. I know dang well it got plenty of nests cause it was a April burn really late time frame..The management of oakmulgee is questionable in my eyes.Not against burning just done in the right time frame or don't do it at all. I'd sure love to hear the reason they don't burn in February
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 299
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 299 |
They started burning Oakmulgee about a month ago maybe longer, it takes time to burn a couple thousand acers. Besides, one nest with one egg in it that looks to be busted by a predator not the fire isn't hurting the population. That hen is probably already nesting again. The fires didn't burn all the woods in that area, there are still woods in that area that haven't been burned.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
If it is a simple as "a destroyed nest is a destroyed nest", or "destroying nests is bad or it isn't", then size of burned blocks should not matter. That would make it NOT simple.
I'd sure love to hear the reason they don't burn in February
I am pretty sure they DO burn in February. Like us, it is hard to do all your burning in the short winter season and some areas, they WANT growing season burns. They started burning Oakmulgee about a month ago maybe longer, it takes time to burn a couple thousand acers. Besides, one nest with one egg in it that looks to be busted by a predator not the fire isn't hurting the population. That hen is probably already nesting again. The fires didn't burn all the woods in that area, there are still woods in that area that haven't been burned. I noticed that as well. Again, all is not as it seems. One egg shell in a burned nest could very well mean the nest was already destroyed by a predator before the fire. Remember 50% of the nests never make it to hatch.
Last edited by gobbler; 03/31/16 01:51 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,447 Likes: 17
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,447 Likes: 17 |
Burning or mowing right now is plain stupid. You'd think that people in the game management business would know that burning or mowing during the primary nesting season is a bad idea Nice to know my 3 degrees in wildlife/timber management and 30 plus years experience "in the game management business" managing deer, turkeys and quail was such a waste and I am still so stupid! Amazing how that background gets trumped by folks with other career choices making recommendations. We burn up turkey nests on occasion and on the places we do, you would be amazed at the number of turkeys. A burned nest is NOT simply a burned nest. If you go step on one and crush all the eggs, I would agree - a waste. If it gets destroyed in the process of making or creating better habitat, it is often worth the loss. Natural resource management is not as simple as some of you would like to think. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers and I realize that you know a whole lot more on the subject than I do. I know there are restrictions on some programs in relation to mowing during nesting seasons and just assumed burning at that time was a no no
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,416 Likes: 16 |
If it is a simple as "a destroyed nest is a destroyed nest", or "destroying nests is bad or it isn't", then size of burned blocks should not matter. That would make it NOT simple. If that's what you believe, then burning your second example as the landowner wanted should've benefited more than hurt.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,378 Likes: 10 |
I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers and I realize that you know a whole lot more on the subject than I do. I know there are restrictions on some programs in relation to mowing during nesting seasons and just assumed burning at that time was a no no
Not ruffled  Just passionate about burning and it's benefits and management in general. Plus I'm a little bit of a pyro  Restrictions on mowing are for the same reason, outside of the nesting season. However, I also recommend folks do some mowing in the quail nesting season for quail management. We, obviously, would rather not burn up turkey nests or mow quail nests but sometimes it happens for better habitat. Mowing during the nesting season for quail can help enhance quail habitat by promoting better coverage of broomstraw and other native grasses as well as does a great job controlling shrub/sapling cover. In this case though, we simply burn it before nesting season, let it grow for a month or 2 and then mow it.
Last edited by gobbler; 03/31/16 02:56 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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