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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,188
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,188 |
Deputy here's the deed or lease paperwork saying I own this land. My buddy said he left this stand and asked me to get it for him. Some of yall must have terrible friends if they won't help you with a poacher.
God, Country, Corps, Family, and Alabama Football.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,258
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,258 |
Deputy here's the deed or lease paperwork saying I own this land. My buddy said he left this stand and asked me to get it for him. Some of yall must have terrible friends if they won't help you with a poacher. Playing with fire. When you lie to the deputy just remember if he finds a hole in your story then you just sealed your fate. For instance the poacher has his stand marked in some way, shape or form that makes it very easy to identify... Then he can just say that you took it off his land.... Look, I'm just playing the Devil's advocate here... All I want y'all to understand is that a dirty rotten poacher will lie, lie and lie some more. Never underestimate the their story telling ability. If there is one thing that surprised me when I became a GW it would be the amount of lies I have to sort through on a daily basis. Just don't get yourself in trouble trying to punish a poacher.
Last edited by yotetrapper; 10/21/15 01:30 PM.
Jon Bartlett
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,364 Likes: 3
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,364 Likes: 3 |
For you people saying get a picture and prosecute, not all judges will convict on a picture because the legal standard is someone has to testify that the picture "is an accurate representation of the scene at the time the picture was taken". If you weren't there, you can't make the above statement, therefore no conviction. I've seen it happen on illegal dumping cases. I'm not saying don't try it, but don't always count on a slam dunk conviction.
What say you Doekiller, Augustus and Judge Sharpe?
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,418
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,418 |
I look at it as stealing something I worked to have. If they wanted to go hunting and asked I would most likely be glad to take them. With this being said I will defend everything I work and pay for the same right or wrong legal or not. I am not working to have stuff stolen from me or my family.I have had a problem similar to this with a former Aldeer member. Thank goodness I only had pictures of him on my property and didn't actually catch him there.And this is just the way I feel and it probably ain't gonna change.
“Everything Woke Turns To SH_T” Donald J. Trump
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1 |
For you people saying get a picture and prosecute, not all judges will convict on a picture because the legal standard is someone has to testify that the picture "is an accurate representation of the scene at the time the picture was taken". If you weren't there, you can't make the above statement, therefore no conviction. I've seen it happen on illegal dumping cases. I'm not saying don't try it, but don't always count on a slam dunk conviction.
What say you Doekiller, Augustus and Judge Sharpe? GW told me if a trail cam got a no doubt face pic, call him he'd come look at the camera and location( trees, rocks, whatever). He'd testify that it was taken on property the feller wasn't supposed to be on. I'd think if a landowner got the GW to testify, get the cam to take a pic of the warden in the exact spot, bring a map to court it would be a done deal.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 10/21/15 01:59 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,258
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,258 |
I look at it as stealing something I worked to have. If they wanted to go hunting and asked I would most likely be glad to take them. With this being said I will defend everything I work and pay for the same right or wrong legal or not. I am not working to have stuff stolen from me or my family.I have had a problem similar to this with a former Aldeer member. Thank goodness I only had pictures of him on my property and didn't actually catch him there.And this is just the way I feel and it probably ain't gonna change. I agree and feel the same way. I just don't want folks caught off guard when a poacher tries to turn the tables on you. What I described in my above post happened just last year. Poacher calls me, of course he says he had permission(and at one point in time he did). Says he had his stand stolen by the landowner and wanted to press charges...made up all kinds of lies. Well at the end of the day it was poacher's word against landowner's word. I had no evidence to actually say that the guy hunted on the property...so I couldn't charge him. Had the landowner called me first I would have at least had a chance at catching the guy.
Jon Bartlett
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,418
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,418 |
I look at it as stealing something I worked to have. If they wanted to go hunting and asked I would most likely be glad to take them. With this being said I will defend everything I work and pay for the same right or wrong legal or not. I am not working to have stuff stolen from me or my family.I have had a problem similar to this with a former Aldeer member. Thank goodness I only had pictures of him on my property and didn't actually catch him there.And this is just the way I feel and it probably ain't gonna change. I agree and feel the same way. I just don't want folks caught off guard when a poacher tries to turn the tables on you. What I described in my above post happened just last year. Poacher calls me, of course he says he had permission(and at one point in time he did). Says he had his stand stolen by the landowner and wanted to press charges...made up all kinds of lies. Well at the end of the day it was poacher's word against landowner's word. I had no evidence to actually say that the guy hunted on the property...so I couldn't charge him. Had the landowner called me first I would have at least had a chance at catching the guy. Not alot going on right now being an Election year and all so rentals on backhoes are reasonable and available.
“Everything Woke Turns To SH_T” Donald J. Trump
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,364 Likes: 3
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,364 Likes: 3 |
For you people saying get a picture and prosecute, not all judges will convict on a picture because the legal standard is someone has to testify that the picture "is an accurate representation of the scene at the time the picture was taken". If you weren't there, you can't make the above statement, therefore no conviction. I've seen it happen on illegal dumping cases. I'm not saying don't try it, but don't always count on a slam dunk conviction.
What say you Doekiller, Augustus and Judge Sharpe? GW told me if a trail cam got a no doubt face pic, call him he'd come look at the camera and location( trees, rocks, whatever). He'd testify that it was taken on property the feller wasn't supposed to be on. I'd think if a landowner got the GW to testify, get the cam to take a pic of the warden in the exact spot, bring a map to court it would be a done deal. Not with our judges. Someone has to testify that was the exact condition when the picture was taken. Basically, a live photographer has to testify.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1 |
For you people saying get a picture and prosecute, not all judges will convict on a picture because the legal standard is someone has to testify that the picture "is an accurate representation of the scene at the time the picture was taken". If you weren't there, you can't make the above statement, therefore no conviction. I've seen it happen on illegal dumping cases. I'm not saying don't try it, but don't always count on a slam dunk conviction.
What say you Doekiller, Augustus and Judge Sharpe? GW told me if a trail cam got a no doubt face pic, call him he'd come look at the camera and location( trees, rocks, whatever). He'd testify that it was taken on property the feller wasn't supposed to be on. I'd think if a landowner got the GW to testify, get the cam to take a pic of the warden in the exact spot, bring a map to court it would be a done deal. Not with our judges. Someone has to testify that was the exact condition when the picture was taken. Basically, a live photographer has to testify. One of our GWs got a conviction on a road hunter a few years ago......the road hunter didn't fire a shot. A known road hunter driving by waaaaay too often, trying to kill this big buck that had been seen on this woman's farm. Don't know about our new judge , but the one that just retired, Judge Grider, would flat bang the pain!
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793 |
Look, there has to be proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" in any criminal case to get a conviction. The game camera picture is circumstantial evidence that the alleged poacher was on the tree stand, but it needs to be testified to as to the location, when the camera was placed, that the picture was of the place and time alleged and that to the best of the witnesses knowledge it is a true and accurate representation of the scene. Time and date imprints help, but are not the sole evidence because they can be manipulated. Do not go on what some Jackleg or LEO tells you about proof.
I would think that the following would be necessary for a conviction:
1. The alleged poacher was on property that he has no legal right to be on.
2. That he was there with the intention to commit an unlawful act, that is hunting on property that was not his own and that he had no legal permit or licence to be there.
3. That there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt of all of the elements of the crime charged.
Proof can be as little as the oral testimony of the accuser.
The more proof that you can put before the Judge or the Jury the better your case will be.
A person that is accused of a crime is presumed innocent until he is convicted by competent proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
This holds whether the crime is littering or Capital murder.
The testimony of Game Warden or other LEO is just like the testimony of anyone else and the testimony will be judged by the same standards. Did the Officer or other witness have a reason to lie? Was the testimony accurate according to the other evidence? Does the witness have first hand knowledge of the subject of the questioning? How was the witness's demeanor on the stand?
I have had, and I am sure other lawyers on here can tell you, Law enforcement officers embellish the truth on the stand. I have had them outright lie. It does not happen often, but that is why we have the highest standard of proof- beyond a reasonable doubt, and the presumption of innocence.
I did get a not guilty in a case where the security camera had a video of a perpetrator who looked a lot like my client, but my client said it was not him and the Jury could not say for sure it was him.
Now, how would I handle the situation? I would set up the game cameras with the time and date stamps. I would take pictures of the set up and the surrounding area. If I caught a picture of someone on my stand or hunting my my land I would try to identify the alleged poacher. Someone in the area will know him. Then I would send a certified letter, signature return requested and restricted delivery to that person and tell him in in language that could not be misunderstood that if it happened again that I was taking the pictures to the County magistrate and swear out a warrant for his arrest.
Then I would follow through. You do not have to have a LEO involved to swear out the warrant. The Count DA will contact you after the suspect has been arrested and he will present the case for you.
What I would not do:
Set any type of trap that would hurt, injure, or kill someone.
That is illegal and it is stupid.
The main reason is that you do not know who it will hurt. Suppose you had a kid in the woods who saw a ladder stand and decided to climb up to see what he could see from up there? The classic example is the guy who set a trap gun in an abandoned house to stop people from breaking in. A boy Scout Troop is on a hike and a bad storm comes up and they take shelter in the house, the trap gun goes off and kills one of the boys. Or Suppose Law Enforcement gets a tip there is illegal activity in the house, obtains a search warrant and enters the house only to be killed by the mindless trap. Good luck on trying to explain that to a judge and jury.
There is nothing material worth hurting or killing someone over. Use the law to your advantage. That's why it is there.
I was explaining that to my grandson the other night. He said that if someone tried to steal something of his he would shoot them. I explained that he would go to jail too. Remember deadly force may only be used in defense of your life or the life of another.
Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the trees
Stonewall Jackson
Hug your loved ones often, Life is short even on its longest days.
I don't see the glass as half full or half empty. I just finish it and order another.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,465
Doe
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Doe
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,465 |
Look, there has to be proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" in any criminal case to get a conviction. The game camera picture is circumstantial evidence that the alleged poacher was on the tree stand, but it needs to be testified to as to the location, when the camera was placed, that the picture was of the place and time alleged and that to the best of the witnesses knowledge it is a true and accurate representation of the scene. Time and date imprints help, but are not the sole evidence because they can be manipulated. Do not go on what some Jackleg or LEO tells you about proof.
I would think that the following would be necessary for a conviction:
1. The alleged poacher was on property that he has no legal right to be on.
2. That he was there with the intention to commit an unlawful act, that is hunting on property that was not his own and that he had no legal permit or licence to be there.
3. That there was proof beyond a reasonable doubt of all of the elements of the crime charged.
Proof can be as little as the oral testimony of the accuser.
The more proof that you can put before the Judge or the Jury the better your case will be.
A person that is accused of a crime is presumed innocent until he is convicted by competent proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
This holds whether the crime is littering or Capital murder.
The testimony of Game Warden or other LEO is just like the testimony of anyone else and the testimony will be judged by the same standards. Did the Officer or other witness have a reason to lie? Was the testimony accurate according to the other evidence? Does the witness have first hand knowledge of the subject of the questioning? How was the witness's demeanor on the stand?
I have had, and I am sure other lawyers on here can tell you, Law enforcement officers embellish the truth on the stand. I have had them outright lie. It does not happen often, but that is why we have the highest standard of proof- beyond a reasonable doubt, and the presumption of innocence.
I did get a not guilty in a case where the security camera had a video of a perpetrator who looked a lot like my client, but my client said it was not him and the Jury could not say for sure it was him.
Now, how would I handle the situation? I would set up the game cameras with the time and date stamps. I would take pictures of the set up and the surrounding area. If I caught a picture of someone on my stand or hunting my my land I would try to identify the alleged poacher. Someone in the area will know him. Then I would send a certified letter, signature return requested and restricted delivery to that person and tell him in in language that could not be misunderstood that if it happened again that I was taking the pictures to the County magistrate and swear out a warrant for his arrest.
Then I would follow through. You do not have to have a LEO involved to swear out the warrant. The Count DA will contact you after the suspect has been arrested and he will present the case for you.
What I would not do:
Set any type of trap that would hurt, injure, or kill someone.
That is illegal and it is stupid.
The main reason is that you do not know who it will hurt. Suppose you had a kid in the woods who saw a ladder stand and decided to climb up to see what he could see from up there? The classic example is the guy who set a trap gun in an abandoned house to stop people from breaking in. A boy Scout Troop is on a hike and a bad storm comes up and they take shelter in the house, the trap gun goes off and kills one of the boys. Or Suppose Law Enforcement gets a tip there is illegal activity in the house, obtains a search warrant and enters the house only to be killed by the mindless trap. Good luck on trying to explain that to a judge and jury.
There is nothing material worth hurting or killing someone over. Use the law to your advantage. That's why it is there.
I was explaining that to my grandson the other night. He said that if someone tried to steal something of his he would shoot them. I explained that he would go to jail too. Remember deadly force may only be used in defense of your life or the life of another. In my not so professional opinion, I would set out at least 2 game cameras on different angles. I also would use 2 different brands. This helped to seal the deal with my case against the fella that dumped trash at our gate. Every time I checked the sd cards, I never erased anything so if we had to prove the cameras operated as they should, we had multiple pictures from 2 cameras to compare. Never had to go this far though.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,709 Likes: 1 |
 Judge. Good advice on "booby traps" . Neighbor kid out "exploring" falls and is killed or paralyzed would be a hell of a thing to live with.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 19,327 Likes: 1
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 19,327 Likes: 1 |
Just curious Judge. What would you do if you found a stand on your property? Leave it and call the GW for them to investigate? Take it and leave a note for them to call the sheriff to retrieve it? Just curious.
If voting made any difference, they wouldn’t let us do it.-Mark Twain
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793 |
If it were there and no one had a permit to hunt there, I would take it down. If it were a good one I would use it myself. If someone came to me asking for it back, I would talk to them and probably give it back to them. If I left a note, which I doubt I would do I would say" You have not permit to be on this land. I have removed your stand for this reason and for safety reasons. I do not want trespassers on my land because I would not know where you are and I and my family hunt this land exclusively. We also have valuable cattle on this property with a herd bull who does not like strangers. You may contact me by mail at this address to arrange the possible return of your stand." If he came to me and apologized and asked if he could bring his kids and hunt sometimes, I would most likely say OK and return his stand.
There is always the possibility of the trespasser having made a mistake and putting the stand up where he mistakenly thought he had permission to. I am generally not an a--hole about things like this unless they give me a reason to be.
And, OK, since the statue of limitations has expired, I will admit that I used to hunt on Gulf State Paper property around Tuscaloosa for Quail, Rabbits and Squirrels ( there were few to no deer in that area in the 60's). It was poaching but the land was wide open and there were more hunters on it on a given weekend than at the Alabama football game. So maybe since I have committed that sin I am a little more tolerant of those who do it now. As long as it does not evolve into a long term situation where I am being screwed over too often, as happened on our land several years ago when a guy who had a permit to hunt himself started bringing paying guests with him and tried to say we- the family- couldn't hunt our own property even though he had no hunting land lease, just a permit revocable at anytime.
Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the trees
Stonewall Jackson
Hug your loved ones often, Life is short even on its longest days.
I don't see the glass as half full or half empty. I just finish it and order another.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 581
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 581 |
It's very frustrating, but like I've said before: IT'S JUST A DAMNED DEER !!!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,800
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,800 |
I still like the idea of painting them with paint that lasts a few weeks or a scent spray like skunk that lasts a while. No matter where he goes after he leaves your stand, people will notice him. Then just ask around. Folks remember blue people that smell like skunk.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,793 |
If it is your stand, do you really want to make it so you can't use it? If so why not just move it to another location? If you boobie trap it you may end up destroying its usefulness to you and causing the deer in the area to leave. Think about it guys.
Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the trees
Stonewall Jackson
Hug your loved ones often, Life is short even on its longest days.
I don't see the glass as half full or half empty. I just finish it and order another.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 581
Piddle Master
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Piddle Master
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 581 |
ive done this before on halloween when our annual 'yard rollers' decide to come throw toilet paper everywhere lol. First buy a bunch of cheap airhorns from the dollar general or walamart. get a log, rock, cinder block, or anything you have thats heavy. second, dig a hole deep enough so the top of your airhorn sticks out of the ground. After that, get a small stick and tie some fishing string, 550 chord, or whatever string you have. Prop the rock on the stick. when they walk and trip the string, the rock will fall on top of the airhorn making it go off. it will scare the dickens out of someone at anytime lol.
Its better to sit in a stand and think about God, then to sit in church and think about hunting.
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Posts: 4,181
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,181 |
I love it when I find a poacher's stand!! It goes home with me and I use it next year.
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