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SPF
by Turkeyneck78 - 05/13/25 05:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908 |
Fetal surveys have been ongoing for years.
Just because the DCNR doesn't publicize every single thing they do doesn't mean they're not doing things.
Communication and education would make their jobs alot easier. For example, if they have fetal surveys that indicate differently than what hunters in South Al experience, then why not communicate that to them, then educate them as to why the season doesnt need to be extended?
Super Predator
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Fetal surveys have been ongoing for years.
Just because the DCNR doesn't publicize every single thing they do doesn't mean they're not doing things.
Communication and education would make their jobs alot easier. For example, if they have fetal surveys that indicate differently than what hunters in South Al experience, then why not communicate that to them, then educate them as to why the season doesnt need to be extended? They publicize this info all over. What are they supposed to do, go door to door? Matter of fact it is publicized on this website and some on here failed to read it. One of the worst problems we (biologists) have to deal with is a constituency that has failed to read information available to them.
Last edited by gobbler; 03/06/11 04:43 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908 |
Fetal surveys have been ongoing for years.
Just because the DCNR doesn't publicize every single thing they do doesn't mean they're not doing things.
Communication and education would make their jobs alot easier. For example, if they have fetal surveys that indicate differently than what hunters in South Al experience, then why not communicate that to them, then educate them as to why the season doesnt need to be extended? They publicize this info all over. What are they supposed to do, go door to door? If that is what it takes, because I havent seen anything and apparently, from the looks of this thread, I'm not alone.
Super Predator
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
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I just did a Google search for "Alabama DCNR fetal survey" and also for "Alabama DCNR whitetail deer fetal survey."
Those, logically, would be the likely words used in such a search engine. Nothing comes up with any results for published materials, either in-house or in the news media.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=102685#Post102685This to start. Since I read Wildlife Trends, Alabama Wildlife, Outdoor Alabama, and any other pertinent wildlife/management publication I can get my hands on, I have seen it several times. Where? Call Chris Cook or Bill Grey, they do the studies 
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Unless you're a member of AWF, look at OutdoorAlabama.com and know where to look, or subscribe to Wildlife Trends ... few would know where to find it or could find it.
That's not truly "all over." It may be known in the wildlife biology circles but the common Joe don't know about it.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Quick Google search As chance would have it, Cook and his colleagues collected deer from Choccolocco WMA in Cleburne and Calhoun Counties this year. The average date of conception was December 10th. “This WMA was restocked in the 1940s with deer from North Carolina,” says Cook. “This is the main reason it has an earlier rut date. Most areas in Alabama were restocked in the 1950s and ’60s with deer from southwest Alabama.” In most parts of the state, the rut starts in January, which Gray noted, tilts the odds in your favor. Studies of deer fetuses are ongoing to determine exact breeding dates in the state and thus the rut. The average conception date appears to be Jan. 20.
"That's the actual date that the doe is bred," Gray said. "So you would expect to see an increase in chasing, scraping and bucks just out on the hoof looking for does a week to 10 days before that."
While mid-January is the average rutting date for most of the state, it varies somewhat in a few locations.
The rut tends to occur in December in the Pickens County area of west central Alabama, Gray observed.
The deer along the Chattahoochee River in the southeastern part of the state tend to breed in November, as do some deer in the Bankhead National Forest in the northwest.
"The different rut dates are apparently indicative of different genetic populations of deer," Gray said. "But we can't say that with 100 percent certainty. Many areas in our state were stocked with native Alabama deer, and those deer have a January rut date. But we also have some areas that were stocked with deer from Michigan and North Carolina that rut earlier." Research has documented average conception dates in Alabama occurring around Thanksgiving, mid-December, early January, and even into early February. For most of Alabama, the peak of breeding season, or the rut, occurs around mid- to late January. Mean date of conception was 21 January (n = 778; SE = 0.594), and mean number of fetuses per gravid doe was 1.749 (n = 780; SE = 0.019). We detected a sex ratio for the entire study that was slightly skewed towards males (52.1%), but this did not differ from equality ([X.sup.2] = 1.0913; P = 0.296). Sex ratios for the six conception periods did not differ from equality (P > 0.25; Table 1), but we did detect differences in proportions of males when comparing periods. When comparing the sex ratio of the first 3 periods against that of the last 3 periods, we found that a greater proportion of males (54.79%; [X.sup.2] = 4.28; P = 0.039) were conceived during the first half of the breeding season than during the second half (49.01% males).
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908 |
Unless you're a member of AWF, look at OutdoorAlabama.com and know where to look, or subscribe to Wildlife Trends ... few would know where to find it or could find it.
That's not truly "all over." It may be known in the wildlife biology circles but the common Joe don't know about it.
My thoughts exactly, I was trying to pull up some CAB minutes the other day and gave up and went back to searching for my lost needle in the haystack because it was easier.
Super Predator
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Gobbler, what words did you use to search and find that info? Just wondering.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Unless you're a member of AWF, look at OutdoorAlabama.com and know where to look, or subscribe to Wildlife Trends ... few would know where to find it or could find it.
That's not truly "all over." It may be known in the wildlife biology circles but the common Joe don't know about it.
I would submit that if you are a deer hunter, have an interest in deer and deer hunting, and have an interest and opinion on this subject and DON"T subscribe to Wildlife Trends, Alabama Wildlife Federation, Don't keep up with outdooralabama or any of the other publications where this information is released, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution Again, what are they supposed to do, find each deer hunter and hand it to them, stand at the door of the CAB and provide handouts. If you WANT the season extended, you should seek out good biological data to support your argument and not rely on anecdotal observations. MHO
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
eskimo, you have to go to the main site: outdooralabama.com And then scroll to the bottom and click on "About Us" http://outdooralabama.com/about/And then look for "Advisory Board" and click on it: http://outdooralabama.com/about/board/This gives you the contact info and list of members. The minutes are listed on the right side by Month-Year, although the header doesn't say anything about minutes. It says "In this section ..."
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
spike
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spike
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52 |
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908 |
eskimo, you have to go to the main site: outdooralabama.com And then scroll to the bottom and click on "About Us" http://outdooralabama.com/about/And then look for "Advisory Board" and click on it: http://outdooralabama.com/about/board/This gives you the contact info and list of members. The minutes are listed on the right side by Month-Year, although the header doesn't say anything about minutes. It says "In this section ..." Thanks
Super Predator
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Gobbler, what words did you use to search and find that info? Just wondering.
Alabama conception dates, white-tailed deer
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,908 |
Unless you're a member of AWF, look at OutdoorAlabama.com and know where to look, or subscribe to Wildlife Trends ... few would know where to find it or could find it.
That's not truly "all over." It may be known in the wildlife biology circles but the common Joe don't know about it.
I would submit that if you are a deer hunter, have an interest in deer and deer hunting, and have an interest and opinion on this subject and DON"T subscribe to Wildlife Trends, Alabama Wildlife Federation, Don't keep up with outdooralabama or any of the other publications where this information is released, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution Again, what are they supposed to do, find each deer hunter and hand it to them, stand at the door of the CAB and provide handouts. If you WANT the season extended, you should seek out good biological data to support your argument and not rely on anecdotal observations. MHO Part of the problem huh? My apologies your magnificant Highness.
Super Predator
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,074 |
Where will the line be drawn dickhead? I live an hour north of Birmingham and had a buck chasing a doe through the field in front of my house last Tuesday. The line should be "drawn" using science as a basis. In most states like Florida different regions for deer season were made using a conception date study carried out by Florida Wildlife Conservation Commission biologists. The study, conducted over two years, looked at mean conception dates of does across the state of Florida. The deer regions, each with different hunting dates, were drawn having the results of this study. Alabama should do the same type of study before any lines are drawn to separate deer hunting regions based on rut dates. To haphazardly draw a line based on the hearsay you bring up is not the way to do it. I hope that if the season is extended that somebody will have the wisdom to remove deer hunting days between November and February so that we don't end up overharvesting deer in Alabama. To just add two weeks to the season without taking a couple of weeks out seems counterproductive.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
spike
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spike
Joined: Jan 2011
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Part of the problem huh? My apologies your magnificant Highness.
I knew I was staying out of this for a reason. I am/was not trying to poke anyone. Sorry, but I write as well and it is frustrating when I meet folks who haven't spent time trying to get educated on a subject but still have a STRONG opinion.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130
Mildly Quirky
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Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,130 |
Guess I'm part of the problem, Gob.
I don't subscribe to Wildlife Trends, although Andy is kind enough to send it to me. I enjoy reading it very much.
I'm not a member of AWF. I also visit the DCNR site regularly but have yet to see anything significantly displayed, promoted, publicized or put forth about fetal survey info and how it relates to seasons, breeding, etc.
You know well enough the common guy doesn't keep up with this either. You know that. Right? Sure you do. The main reason you know all this is because you're in the wildlife and resources industry. Only the true diehards would be keeping up with fetal info and its publication in wildlife and biological periodicals.
Find each hunter? Go door to door?
Y'know what? That's not impossible given the INTERNET and how easily available it is to disseminate information in today's world.
Stand at the door at CAB meetings and provide handouts? Why, they don't even have a specific agenda available beforehand about what's going to be discussed, unlike some states (Tennessee, specifically), so people will have an idea other than from email scuttlebutt about what's going on. Providing information about fetal studies, fisheries research and other topics at the door might be a welcomed by the attendees.
Digging up studies and info is a good suggestion. It shouldn't be so damn hard for the average guy to do it, though. Wildlife Trends - I just went to their site - requires subscription and membership to view any articles. AWF requires membership and a lot of people don't want to join, for various reasons.
The state agency that does these things does it with public money and the info is public. It should be easily provided to the public without the public having to search high and low, hard and fast, to find it. But it's not an uncommon problem among state and federal agencies throughout the nation.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
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