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Key:
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
I see people on here using a lot of negative comments on how the guys at Tutt Land Company view hunting. One of the guys in charge of the project writes for Great Days Outdoors. Here is Hale Smith's article in this month's edition, what do you think about his view? What is the point of this? Is it important because he writes for GDO? If so does the fact that I write wildlife management articles for several publications make me more qualified? I disagree with him on most points, especially shortening the gun season just to extend it! He seems a little discombobulated when he says we need to "lay our rifles down for at least a portion of the deer season" because we are overharvesting bucks, then says "extend the deer season" so we can kill more bucks. WTF? If you want to tout him, lay out his credentials - a biologist?, any degrees?...... Were there ANY biologists involved in the formation of this "project"? If so who??
Last edited by gobbler; 10/04/12 06:38 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
They were talking about creating a platform where they could grab enough attention to educate hunters and try to get more people on board to work together on managing the deer herd in the area better.
I know a couple of these guys as well and they are good guys with good intentions. However, I think the project is not only misguided but doomed to failure (since altering the genetics of Marengos co's deer herd is the objective and an unobtainable objective). These guys do forestry consulting, own a timber business and loggers, as well as the real estate business. I would think that this is a HUGE platform if education of landowners "on managing the deer herd in the area better" is the REAL objective. Pretty simple when you own the bully pulpit - show by example... quit thinning pines like a forester and thin them heavy, do more burning, manage the landowners property to produce enough HIGH QUALITY food for the EXISTING deer herd to express their genetic potential. In other words, put your money where your mouth (and education) is. That may be too much to ask for a timber company though. The answer to "better managing Marengos co's deer herd" is NOT releasing pen raised bucks with "200 inch genetics". It IS in HABITAT MANAGEMENT. In other words, make it look like this:  Sorry Dogs...couldn't hep myself 
Last edited by gobbler; 10/05/12 08:12 AM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
WOW, also just noticed on the BBP website that by releasing 2 (yes just 2) "breeder bucks", it will result in 2,429 breeder bucks in 5 years! Easy goal! Whoa.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,672 |
I'm good with the pines for show and tell on this one.  They got any hardwoods down there for those 2 super bucks and wanta see what good hardwood habitat looks like, I'm their Huckleberry. I think we got them covered either way. 
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
spike
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spike
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1 |
Okay, I am typically a observer on this website, but this topic hits close to home. I am from Marengo county and trained in the fields of wildlife management/forestry.
A few posters have mentioned all this but..
It is virtually impossible to control genetics in a wild population. I think age is the number one limitation facing our deer population, after that, nutrition.
So, there is one Marengo county native with some experience that is against this project.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,120
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,120 |
WOW, also just noticed on the BBP website that by releasing 2 (yes just 2) "breeder bucks", it will result in 2,429 breeder bucks in 5 years! Easy goal! Whoa. They releasing breeder bucks or hogs? LOL I agree with your comments on improve the habitat to maximize the genetic expression.
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Dang. Did a simple dose of common sense kill this thread? No responses from longbow or justhangin?
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,231
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,231 |
He may get shot before the season even opens.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 759
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 759 |
Are they gonna have ear tags? I hope so,of course it won't matter.Somebody will shoot him any way.
Be safe & have fun
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,254 |
Looks like some hunters are going to be having fun soon...... Glad your back! Was hoping you would be able to answer the questions I had: I see people on here using a lot of negative comments on how the guys at Tutt Land Company view hunting. One of the guys in charge of the project writes for Great Days Outdoors. Here is Hale Smith's article in this month's edition, what do you think about his view? What is the point of this? Is it important because he writes for GDO? If so does the fact that I write wildlife management articles for several publications make me more qualified? I disagree with him on most points, especially shortening the gun season just to extend it! He seems a little discombobulated when he says we need to "lay our rifles down for at least a portion of the deer season" because we are overharvesting bucks, then says "extend the deer season" so we can kill more bucks. WTF? If you want to tout him, lay out his credentials - a biologist?, any degrees?...... Were there ANY biologists involved in the formation of this "project"? If so who?? Couple more RE, having fun... I thought they were going to release them to breed? If so, shouldn't no one have fun with them this fall? Kinda hard to pass on the "200" genetics" if it's dead. How about the educational aspects of habitat management I was inquiring about?
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,584
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,584 |
So should I put my name in to have a deer released on my place?
Keep your booger hooker off the bang switch.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713 |
Jeremy, I agree with you buddy. You're not bashing anyone.... you're just stating the science and biology of deer mgmt.
I'm all for this project. Do I think it's going to make a qualifiable and plotted difference? I have my doubts but like you said Jeremy, if people show some restraint in shooting immature bucks, then it's worth it.
I know Walter and Walter cares about.... well, Walter cares about a lot of things and he's good man. More power to him.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49 |
This is unconfirmed, but from what I am hearing as of lately the bucks may not have tags in them. What I am hearing is that they will be releasing a lot of bucks like the one in the picture without tags and that all the bred does they release will have tags in their ears.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,228
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,228 |
Well if they are already releasing them that confirms what I said to start with. It's all about money, no way I would turn one like that loose till a week before the rut starts. You turn ten like that out now and none will breed a doe because when the rut gets here they will be getting stretched over a nice sneaking pose form at a taxidermist shop somewhere. Again if this is a legitimate deal .........Why not turn out 50 bred does instead of 8 or 10 bucks? It would cost about the same (I think) and they would be FAR more likely to survive till they give birth than the bucks.I can assure you that 9 out of 10 hunters in this state will shoot that buck if he gets the chance. Pen raised trophy bucks gonna make it till breeding season,haha yea right....................................
Lead, follow or get the HELL outa the way!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,228
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,228 |
Been doing some reading on their site. Here is a quote from them,am I interpreting this right?
According to multiple studies conducted from Texas to Florida over the past decade, the following represents an average compilation of whitetail reproduction data across the southeast:
Average number of does bred per breeder buck: 5
Average fawn birth rate per doe: 1.5
Fawn survival rate (recruitment) 50%
Attrition rate: 45% during 2nd year, 68% during 3rd year, 84% during 4th year, 90 % during 5th year, 93 % during 6th year, 96% during the 7th year, 98% during the 8th year, 99% during the 10th year, 100% during the 10th year.
1 buck breed 5 does which makes 7.5 fawns.
half of those fawns die which leaves 3.75 fawns.
by the second year 45% of that 3.75 have died (attrition) that leaves 55% or 2.0265 2 year old deer.
On average half of those will be does and half bucks so that is 1.03125 of each so we can pretty much say that after two years if they turn loose 10 of these trophy bucks they will have doubled that to 20 IF none of the original 10 have been killed (not likely) I know that the doe fawns will pass on the genes too but this is about bucks apparently. So am I reading this right or am I missing something? I looked at the chart too and I think that is WAY overstated. I hate being negative about this deal but it still smells fishy to me. Also after looking again at the release picture I want to change what I said earlier about that deer......99 out of 100 hunters in this state will shoot that deer if they get a shot at it. and a pen raised deer will give someone a shot very soon. It will cause a division of the area hunters when someone shoots a "stud" buck when it ventures 5 miles from where it was released . I will start the over/under at 63% of the released bucks will be dead after the first weekend of gun season.
Lead, follow or get the HELL outa the way!
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,493 |
Been doing some reading on their site. Here is a quote from them,am I interpreting this right?
According to multiple studies conducted from Texas to Florida over the past decade, the following represents an average compilation of whitetail reproduction data across the southeast:
Average number of does bred per breeder buck: 5
Average fawn birth rate per doe: 1.5
Fawn survival rate (recruitment) 50%
Attrition rate: 45% during 2nd year, 68% during 3rd year, 84% during 4th year, 90 % during 5th year, 93 % during 6th year, 96% during the 7th year, 98% during the 8th year, 99% during the 10th year, 100% during the 10th year.
1 buck breed 5 does which makes 7.5 fawns.
half of those fawns die which leaves 3.75 fawns.
by the second year 45% of that 3.75 have died (attrition) that leaves 55% or 2.0265 2 year old deer.
On average half of those will be does and half bucks so that is 1.03125 of each so we can pretty much say that after two years if they turn loose 10 of these trophy bucks they will have doubled that to 20 IF none of the original 10 have been killed (not likely) I know that the doe fawns will pass on the genes too but this is about bucks apparently. So am I reading this right or am I missing something? I looked at the chart too and I think that is WAY overstated. I hate being negative about this deal but it still smells fishy to me. Also after looking again at the release picture I want to change what I said earlier about that deer......99 out of 100 hunters in this state will shoot that deer if they get a shot at it. and a pen raised deer will give someone a shot very soon. It will cause a division of the area hunters when someone shoots a "stud" buck when it ventures 5 miles from where it was released . I will start the over/under at 63% of the released bucks will be dead after the first weekend of gun season. [i][/i][u][/u] Ill take the over please Sir
Playin string music
Hoyt Vector 32
Get Serious Get Hoyt
Alto, la migra means Stop, immigration in Spanish slang. They'll scatter like skittles dropped on a concrete floor. -Furflyin
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,582 |
Holy chit, you money hungry frankenbreeders are better spin doctors than Obamas campaign manager.
On that website, one of the articles title is, State Vet says, "This is the way to do it." When in actuality, this is what he said:
"The licensed game breeders are cooperating in the CWD monitoring program completely. If they're (organizers) going to do it, this is the way to do it -- with the assistance of the licensed game breeders."
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49
spike
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spike
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 49 |
I have seen deer trailers near Tutt Land Company's office several times this week full of does and bucks. Looks to me like they are dropping them all over the county already.
Also, I have a buddy that says he saw one in the woods already.
Last edited by longbow76; 10/12/12 08:24 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,713
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,713 |
Will this buck qualify for AON's truck buck contest? Or any of the other Big Buck contest throughout the state. If it's killed legally, outside of a high fence, then he would qualify right? This is going to get real interesting when someone kills one of these giants. What about the Alabama whitetail record books. Is there a way to disqualify these deer if they are harvested. Just a thought. Someone may have brought this up but there are too many pages to go back through and check.
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