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14 members (gregnbc, JD53, BrandonClark, odocoileus, Thread Killer, fish251, mcninja, Bglen, Jweeks, BamaGuitarDude, RCHRR, CAL, 2 invisible),
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Key:
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Mod
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,379 Likes: 72
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 10,379 Likes: 72 |
I was at a funeral the other day, pastor says it wasn't God's will that the person died. I was like, huh? Seems like as Christians we say it is God's will to comfort those who lost a family member or friend.
I have a hard time getting there, if God knew us before we were formed, and knows how many hairs are on our head, and knows we are a believer, why wouldn't His will be for all of us to die and come home?
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 22,815 Likes: 197
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 22,815 Likes: 197 |
I'd need more context to understand exactly what was meant....
Isaiah 5:20
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564 |
It is an age old question that has been debated for a very long time...
Where does "God's will" end and "Free will" begin? If God is all knowing does that mean that events are predetermined? If events are predetermined then where does free will come into the picture?
I personally believe that events are not predetermined, because if they were, then what would be the point of this entire existence in which we are participating. I believe God places our consciousness in our current forms, gives us guidance through the Holy Spirit and the scripture and turns us loose in this experience to see how we will do. We in turn largely create our own reality, our own happiness, our own success and our own failures.
Last edited by Irishguy; 08/03/26 11:45 AM.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,338 Likes: 87 |
The body has to die, the soul, not so much.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18 |
It is an age old question that has been debated for a very long time...
Where does "God's will" end and "Free will" begin? If God is all knowing does that mean that events are predetermined? If events are predetermined then where does free will come into the picture?
I personally believe that events are not predetermined, because if they were, then what would be the point of this entire existence in which we are participating. I believe God places our consciousness in our current forms, gives us guidance through the Holy Spirit and the scripture and turns us loose in this experience to see how we will do. We in turn largely create our own reality, our own happiness, our own success and our own failures. “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” Proverbs 16:1 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.” Proverbs 16:9 ESV “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” Ephesians 1:11 ESV “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10 ESV “remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’” Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV ““For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”” Romans 11:34 ESV
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,944 Likes: 114
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,944 Likes: 114 |
“Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me. Captain, that is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave.”
— Spoken to Captain John D. Imboden after the First Battle of Manassas (Bull Run), July 1861.
Don't let life get in the way of living
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Simpleman |
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,130 Likes: 143
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,130 Likes: 143 |
The bible is clear that God knows every step you will take ahead of time. Several passages make that evident but the one that comes to mind is when Jesus tells Peter he will deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. Now, I don't believe it was God's will that Peter deny him but God, knowing all things, knew it would happen. Peter's free will was exercised but God knew it would happen before Peter was ever born. God also knows exactly when someone will die but I believe sometimes our free will can bring about an early death. God knowing what will happen isn't the same as God causing it to happen. For instance, if I choose to do drugs and overdose was that God's will or did my free will shorten my days? Complex question but I think our choices definitely play into how long we live.
Proverbs 10:27
The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
but the years of the wicked will be short.
" I do view Jim Waltz as a really good Presidential candidate"
Bama_Earl
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3 members like this:
Narrow Gap, TensawRiver, leroycnbucks |
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564 |
It is an age old question that has been debated for a very long time...
Where does "God's will" end and "Free will" begin? If God is all knowing does that mean that events are predetermined? If events are predetermined then where does free will come into the picture?
I personally believe that events are not predetermined, because if they were, then what would be the point of this entire existence in which we are participating. I believe God places our consciousness in our current forms, gives us guidance through the Holy Spirit and the scripture and turns us loose in this experience to see how we will do. We in turn largely create our own reality, our own happiness, our own success and our own failures. “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” Proverbs 16:1 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.” Proverbs 16:9 ESV “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” Ephesians 1:11 ESV “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10 ESV “remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’” Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV ““For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”” Romans 11:34 ESV So what is the summary of your understanding of those versus?
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,738 Likes: 64
Pope of Aldeer and Expert
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Pope of Aldeer and Expert
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,738 Likes: 64 |
We all gonna live til we die.
Support our country. Kill chickens.
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,782 Likes: 66 |
The bible is clear that God knows every step you will take ahead of time. Several passages make that evident but the one that comes to mind is when Jesus tells Peter he will deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. Now, I don't believe it was God's will that Peter deny him but God, knowing all things, knew it would happen. Peter's free will was exercised but God knew it would happen before Peter was ever born. God also knows exactly when someone will die but I believe sometimes our free will can bring about an early death. God knowing what will happen isn't the same as God causing it to happen. For instance, if I choose to do drugs and overdose was that God's will or did my free will shorten my days? Complex question but I think our choices definitely play into how long we live.
Proverbs 10:27
The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
but the years of the wicked will be short. I agree Bill. I have a hard time believing that it was someone's time to die when they freehand mountain climbing.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18 |
It is an age old question that has been debated for a very long time...
Where does "God's will" end and "Free will" begin? If God is all knowing does that mean that events are predetermined? If events are predetermined then where does free will come into the picture?
I personally believe that events are not predetermined, because if they were, then what would be the point of this entire existence in which we are participating. I believe God places our consciousness in our current forms, gives us guidance through the Holy Spirit and the scripture and turns us loose in this experience to see how we will do. We in turn largely create our own reality, our own happiness, our own success and our own failures. “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” Proverbs 16:1 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.” Proverbs 16:9 ESV “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” Ephesians 1:11 ESV “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10 ESV “remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’” Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV ““For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”” Romans 11:34 ESV So what is the summary of your understanding of those versus? What’s yours?
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564 |
The bible is clear that God knows every step you will take ahead of time. Several passages make that evident but the one that comes to mind is when Jesus tells Peter he will deny him 3 times before the rooster crows. Now, I don't believe it was God's will that Peter deny him but God, knowing all things, knew it would happen. Peter's free will was exercised but God knew it would happen before Peter was ever born. God also knows exactly when someone will die but I believe sometimes our free will can bring about an early death. God knowing what will happen isn't the same as God causing it to happen. For instance, if I choose to do drugs and overdose was that God's will or did my free will shorten my days? Complex question but I think our choices definitely play into how long we live.
Proverbs 10:27
The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
but the years of the wicked will be short. I don't disagree with your post. I do agree that God is all knowing. That makes you wonder if there could be an infinite number of possible outcomes due to free will and God just happens to know everyone of them. If there is not an infinite number of possible outcomes and there is only one outcome and God already knows what that is, it makes you wonder why he allowed people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin to be created knowing they would kill millions of innocent people.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564 |
It is an age old question that has been debated for a very long time...
Where does "God's will" end and "Free will" begin? If God is all knowing does that mean that events are predetermined? If events are predetermined then where does free will come into the picture?
I personally believe that events are not predetermined, because if they were, then what would be the point of this entire existence in which we are participating. I believe God places our consciousness in our current forms, gives us guidance through the Holy Spirit and the scripture and turns us loose in this experience to see how we will do. We in turn largely create our own reality, our own happiness, our own success and our own failures. “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.” Proverbs 16:1 “The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.” Proverbs 16:9 ESV “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” Ephesians 1:11 ESV “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:10 ESV “remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’” Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV ““For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”” Romans 11:34 ESV So what is the summary of your understanding of those versus? What’s yours? I ask you first because you posted them. Do you have your own interpretation of those scriptures? I've already stated that I don't believe in predestination.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,122 Likes: 18 |
I was just pointing to what the scripture has to say about the subject. If you don’t believe it then I can’t convince you. Therefore discussing it will be pointless.
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,814 Likes: 14 |
I was at a funeral the other day, pastor says it wasn't God's will that the person died. i’m with Gomer - we need more context around this statement - but i will say that He is God Our Father & not our Godfather as extreme sovereignty theology promotes - the word “sovereign” is never used a single time in the KJV bible that’s enough to spin many here out of control 🤣
Last edited by BamaGuitarDude; 08/03/26 01:31 PM.
ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
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a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 28,317 Likes: 564 |
I was just pointing to what the scripture has to say about the subject. If you don’t believe it then I can’t convince you. Therefore discussing it will be pointless. You know, it's not some weird Irishguy theology. There are actually a good number of mainstream Christian denominations that do not believe in predestination.
"When I say ever thing I mean ever thing." - Frankie
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,972 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,972 Likes: 190 |
I was just pointing to what the scripture has to say about the subject. If you don’t believe it then I can’t convince you. Therefore discussing it will be pointless. You know, it's not some weird Irishguy theology. There are actually a good number of mainstream Christian denominations that do not believe in predestination. Denying scripture is bad theology. I have great friends who don’t believe in God’s sovereignty and election. I don’t understand how they can read scripture and conclude that God has no say in the matter. Scripture is absolutely full of Gods sovereignty and election. But, it’s an issue I don’t push back on. The foundation of our salvation is Christ alone. Understanding man’s autonomy and will and Gods is a difficult task that no man can fully comprehend or explain.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 29,071 Likes: 83 |
Folks that know don't shoot old does........ 
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,371 Likes: 9
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,371 Likes: 9 |
F - forsaking
A- all
I - I
T - trust
H - Him
Yes. He knows the outcome, but I believe He will let us choose our own path.
We as Christians are taught to trust Him in all of our earthly life scenarios. This is how we grow our relationship through depending on Him to help us see our way out of the weeds, or out of the fire. He never said that we wouldn't get in those places, because we do have free will.
But, as believers when do we seek or need Him most?
Me, when I'm flat of my back in the weeds.....LOST. l don't think non-believers have that same peace during those times.
I like to keep it simple stupid. He states we are going to die a sinner death, but through our believing in Him we are promised an eternity in Heaven. That's FAITH.
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Doing the best I can.
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Doing the best I can.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,162 Likes: 196 |
I was just pointing to what the scripture has to say about the subject. If you don’t believe it then I can’t convince you. Therefore discussing it will be pointless. You know, it's not some weird Irishguy theology. There are actually a good number of mainstream Christian denominations that do not believe in predestination. Count me in with the non-calvanist camp as well.
The true mark of a man is not how he conducts himself during times of prosperity, but how he conducts himself during times of adversity.
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