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14 members (gregnbc, JD53, BrandonClark, odocoileus, Thread Killer, fish251, mcninja, Bglen, Jweeks, BamaGuitarDude, RCHRR, CAL, 2 invisible),
624
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Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,972 Likes: 190
Fancy
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Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 10,972 Likes: 190 |
I ask my self two questions about a buck when deciding whether to shoot him or not:
1). Is he mature? That is why if you are going to be serious about a trophy plan you should learn to age them in the field, then shoot the mature ones whether they are a huge spike or a 10. Mature bucks, that aren't trophy quality don't do anything but eat up food that could be used by young, growing deer so take em out.
2). Do I feel like fooling with him? I'm getting old so it is important to me to have someone there to help me load, etc. Usually, there is a front-end loader on a tractor to use if no one else is around. If I'm by myself I always check to see that it is operable before I go. I would add to your 1st point… it’s not always wise to take them out whether they are a huge spike or a 10. From what I’ve learned from Matt and others here and other places, it’s better to have an older age class of breeding bucks. So don’t just shoot him because he’s old, shoot him because he is old and has a rack that is a trophy to you. Even if he has 10” spikes, there’s no science saying his offspring will have 10” spikes. Maybe he breeds with a doe that has good genes and she throws a buck that has 10” brow tines. Who knows? Science does say that an older age class of bucks leads to a better fawn survival rate. And with the coyote epidemic that’s a big deal if you ask me. Plus I doubt your deer are starving. The mature buck eating the food isn’t really that big of a deal is it? Just passing along something Ive learned over the last 3-4 years or so. But I’m definitely no expert. From what I understand a property can only support a certain number of mature deer even with a strict habitat management program + food plots. Mature deer don't like to be "crowded". Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I do agree you won't change a herd's genetics by shooting a 5yr old spike but you will free up a spot for another mature deer and have that much more forage available for other deer with better potential. There’s truth in both. Having older age class bucks in the population is good for herd health. Don’t matter what is on their head. If you stockpile mature bucks in summer, they’re going to disperse in fall. Facts. Even in superb habitat, some will shift because they simply won’t all coexist together. As long as you have other mature deer to fill the void removing deer you don’t desire is ok. Genetics is so complicated in free ranging deer culling isn’t even worth bringing up as a management tool. Every study has replicated the same results. I leave it right here. Decide what your harvest objectives are and stick with that, regardless of headgear.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,782 Likes: 66
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,782 Likes: 66 |
I enjoy observing the deer now more than killing them. And I can’t control what happens to them once they leave our place.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,246 Likes: 11
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,246 Likes: 11 |
I enjoy observing the deer now more than killing them. And I can’t control what happens to them once they leave our place. Yep... when they step foot off the Ponderosa, I hope a angelic image of me forms over their right shoulder and says, "Go with God."
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735 |
I enjoy observing the deer now more than killing them. And I can’t control what happens to them once they leave our place. Yep... when they step foot off the Ponderosa, I hope a angelic image of me forms over their right shoulder and says, "Go with God." I laughed 😂
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 806
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 806 |
I ask my self two questions about a buck when deciding whether to shoot him or not:
1). Is he mature? That is why if you are going to be serious about a trophy plan you should learn to age them in the field, then shoot the mature ones whether they are a huge spike or a 10. Mature bucks, that aren't trophy quality don't do anything but eat up food that could be used by young, growing deer so take em out.
2). Do I feel like fooling with him? I'm getting old so it is important to me to have someone there to help me load, etc. Usually, there is a front-end loader on a tractor to use if no one else is around. If I'm by myself I always check to see that it is operable before I go. I would add to your 1st point… it’s not always wise to take them out whether they are a huge spike or a 10. From what I’ve learned from Matt and others here and other places, it’s better to have an older age class of breeding bucks. So don’t just shoot him because he’s old, shoot him because he is old and has a rack that is a trophy to you. Even if he has 10” spikes, there’s no science saying his offspring will have 10” spikes. Maybe he breeds with a doe that has good genes and she throws a buck that has 10” brow tines. Who knows? Science does say that an older age class of bucks leads to a better fawn survival rate. And with the coyote epidemic that’s a big deal if you ask me. Plus I doubt your deer are starving. The mature buck eating the food isn’t really that big of a deal is it? Just passing along something Ive learned over the last 3-4 years or so. But I’m definitely no expert. From what I understand a property can only support a certain number of mature deer even with a strict habitat management program + food plots. Mature deer don't like to be "crowded". Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I do agree you won't change a herd's genetics by shooting a 5yr old spike but you will free up a spot for another mature deer and have that much more forage available for other deer with better potential. There’s truth in both. Having older age class bucks in the population is good for herd health. Don’t matter what is on their head. If you stockpile mature bucks in summer, they’re going to disperse in fall. Facts. Even in superb habitat, some will shift because they simply won’t all coexist together. As long as you have other mature deer to fill the void removing deer you don’t desire is ok. Genetics is so complicated in free ranging deer culling isn’t even worth bringing up as a management tool. Every study has replicated the same results. I leave it right here. Decide what your harvest objectives are and stick with that, regardless of headgear. So I guess by that theory if you are holding a large number of mature deer during the summer months that are then dispersing as the rut approaches, shooting mature bucks with undesirable racks would be beneficial as it would, in theory, keep a mature deer with more desirable antlers from dispersing in the future? I can see how there a lot of factors at play here that would not apply for a lot of properties where mature age-class bucks are the exception and not the rule. And I agree 100%, you will never change the genetics in a free-range herd.
Last edited by chevydude2015; 12/24/23 03:24 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 95
spike
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spike
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 95 |
I’ve shot 4 does this year. Our property in west TN is overrun with them. I’ve got pile of deer meat to eat. I’ve passed on 20-30 younger bucks. Some will be killed by others. Some will get hit by cars or die from CWD, but I didn’t kill them because I didn’t need the meat and they weren’t a trophy to me..
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 104
3 point
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3 point
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 104 |
Big fan of this mentality. I’d love to be able to hold out for a 5 yr old buck but at the end of the day we are just trying to fill the freezer. A nice buck is a huge bonus.
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