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F150, I can relate to some parts of your experience. My church experiences include deacon, elder, SS teacher, and married to the church secretary. If you started a #MeToo campaign to share stories about the ugly messy side of church life, I could tell some stories that will raise some eyebrows. But I won't. That would amount to taking the speck out of another person's eye without first removing the beam in my own eye. (Matthew 7:5) I encourage you to take a fresh look at the New Testament church as portrayed in scripture.

Large church observation:

I'm a member of Briarwood Presbyterian Church (PCA, not the liberal USA) here in Birmingham. Briarwood is the founding church of the PCA. When the Presbyterian church over 50 years ago started watering down its theology and not teaching the full Gospel message, Pastor Frank Barker stated a new church that grew and started meeting in a rented storefront in a strip mall.The church grew and grew because of the commitment to preach the Gospel, address sin and social ills, and to be committed to being Christ centered, Gospel driven and Spirit filled.....huge emphasis on local missions and global missions. Today Briarwood (aka Briarworld) 50+ plus years later is a very large church with a large campus and multiple buildings. But the tenets of teaching have not changed. The Truth is attractive and a church will grow if it speaks the truth in love. The budget is huge and the pastor and staff are paid well and that $ is all out in the open for every member to see and review.

Part of me really thinks the large building and staff is a bad use of money at times. Too much spent on building, maintenance and looks...too many staff members, too much salary. But then I see the work of the church 7 days a week...all year long. There are countless ministries that are outreach and mission oriented working hard to promote Christ every single day. Bible Studies in addition to standard church services and youth groups, Homeless programs, Veterans support, Foster/adoption teams, community educational and literacy programs, tutoring, financial planning ministry, church plants local and abroad., addiction and crisis counseling, single mothers and children programs, mens and womens ministries, job and career training, partnering with shelters and halfway houses, international outreach to foreign nationals, local missions, US missions, Global missions.....huge list that I've barely touched. When I see all the work for the Kingdom going on, it takes space and staff to make it work. So while it sometimes bothers me the $ spent, I also can clearly see the results and what the $ is for. Many other large churches do the same thing. But many small churches do the same thing just on a smaller scale to fit their size.

Now the rub with Presbyterians by many is the who election/predestination thing....the frozen chosen as some call it...I've been here for 8 years now and the only teaching on this subject that I've witnessed is when it is read in the verses that actually talk about it....never some deep theological training on the topic to the membership...mentioned in passing. I was raised Baptist, go to a PCA church now, but I'm a Bible believing Christian first and foremost. All Christians will agree on the core basics of Christianity, but like many things we will have different ideas on other secondary topics.

For me, I feel comfortable in any church that is preaching and teaching the straight Biblical Truth and the one Gospel of Christ. I've got worship style preferences and speaking in tongues ain't my thing, but if th emessage is True then I can deal with it. Large churches do have moments of drama and politics. I grew up in a very small rural Baptist church in MS. There was drama and politics there too. People are people, saved or not....sometimes they act like they shouldn't. It is the human sin nature. Routine and lifestyle of creating strife, well that is a different story and speaks to the heart of the individual not being right with God rather than an error or mistake.

Oh I have good one. My home church built a huge addition for more room. The weekly Sunday service attendance is 300 maybe 325 for as long as I can remember. The building committee came to members homes to get a monetary commitment in a strong arm manner. They wanted members to sign a contract as to how much of a contribution obligation the church could expect. Crazy stuff.

Was that in Huntsville by any chance.

A friend of mine was telling me a story recently about one of his family members who was IN THE HOSPITAL (don't remember the reason, but had to be admitted for a bit). While he was laid up in a hospital bed, some of the elders/deacons/whatever from the church actually had the nerve to come visit him IN THE HOSPITAL to discuss his tithing. I don't remember if it was about increasing it or that they hadn't gotten it that month or something. But yeah......came to hit the man up for money while he was laid in a hospital bed incapacitated.

I understand that churches need money to operate, and I understand that the Bible calls on Christians to give to the church, but that's just crossing the line.

Really? Every Sunday or what?

Yep every Sunday

Yessir.

I've been in a situation where I wanted to leave a church. I would have been justified to do so. I asked God what he wanted me to do. He had me stay. I think it has really impacted my kids to see me and my wife walk through it. It wasn't easy and I'm not saying you need to stay but you need to know what God is telling YOU to do.

Nice post, BPI.

This man speaks wisdom. Well said, Coldtrail.

Been there as well not only at church but work, marriage, family and just about every where else I have ever been. But like you, God reminds me that I am where I am at because He put me there and I am grateful for the lessons He has taught me through the trials and issues

A local church goes to the races at Talladega and hands out free water, firewood, and food to the drunks down there. I know several people that goes to the church and they don't like it at all. Several older people that go to the church needs some help and you know the local battered women and children homes need help. People who go to the races have money and buy tickets, they don't need help. I guess its more exciting to go to the racetrack and help out drunks, than it is to help out some local shelters and members of your own church.

Sounds like some of the ones that need to most help

If a person wants to find a reason to get mad and leave the church, they won’t have to look far. Evangelicals have lowered their standard and have dummed down the gospel which is why church membership roles are full of wolves instead of sheep. There are however, good bible believing Jesus following churches still around and I happen to be a member of one. Main thing I learned a long time ago is that church is about Him and not me! So ask yourself if God is being glorified in your particular assembly. If not, move on but don’t give up

F150, I'm with ya. I typed out a long post, but a lot of its already been said and I wouldn't be adding anything. We all come to and live with Christ in different ways.

Sounds just like a lot of these so called foreign missions where they go to these tropical islands ( Costa Rica ) comes to mind. They spend thousands to get there and they always seem to find time to go zip lining thru the rainforest, deep sea fishing, jet skiing and horseback riding. Now they do preform some work but that money could be better spent if not in there own community then in the Appalachian mountains or in the Indian reservations. Or how about this nouvelle idea help out the old people that are freezing in the winter and roasting in the summer all along eating dog and cat food. But those things are not as appealing as those missionary retreats. If you do go on those then step out thru those those armed gates and save those drug lords and addict and see how that goes over.

Help should be at home first not abroad. Just my 2cents worth.

I used to feel the exact same way, but after hearing stories from Honduras, Guatemala etc, I have changed my mind. There are people there without eyeglasses or shoes. A $10 item can mean a world of difference for them. That simply does not exist in the U.S.

And the ones my church is a part of involve no zip lining, etc. They go down there and build shacks for people that folks like us "might" hut out of.

What church does vacation mission trips ? I would love to know. And if you are serious about home first, you can p.m. me and I'll take you out this Sunday sharing the Gospel like I do every Sunday. The bible says to go here and their. If anyone has an issue with that they should take it up with God.