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Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465277
04/21/18 09:13 AM
04/21/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
To answer your question. No, that is not unusual at all. Just because everyone gave the same story doesn’t mean it really happened that was. A lot of the murder cases I have handled everyone on the scene gave the same story. Didn’t mean it was the truth. Spending half a day in the jail isn’t that bad given the circumstances.

The story about staying longer if your get a lawyer is a violation of her rights. Birmingham got popped for telling people it would take longer to have a bond set or they would get a higher bond if they ask for a lawyer.

They don’t always take someone in, but it isn’t unusual at all.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465282
04/21/18 09:17 AM
04/21/18 09:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,342
mobile
C
charlie Offline
12 point
charlie  Offline
12 point
C
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,342
mobile
I don't know anything about this except what you posted here, but my best guess is that one of two things are going great on here. Either the police department messed up and went about this the wrong way, or you are not getting the whole story. Maybe a little of both.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465304
04/21/18 09:36 AM
04/21/18 09:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,168
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
14 point
DryFire  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,168
Meridianville
Depends on which state the shooting occurred. Was she required to have a CC permit to carry? Was she allowed to have a weapon in her possession? In Texas, you have to attend an all day class (plus range qualification) before obtaining your LTC. All classroom instructors tell you, if you use your weapon, do NOT talk to law enforcement until your attorney arrives, no matter how much you think the shooting was justified.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465308
04/21/18 09:43 AM
04/21/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
That's what is taught in La class too.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465311
04/21/18 09:48 AM
04/21/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
FurFlyin Offline
Freak of Nature
FurFlyin  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,377
Marshall County
It may have been due to the circumstances. If I read your story, 3 people were kidnapped. Two males and a female. Female gets raped then shoots the kidnapper/rapist. I'm far from being a LEO, but in my mind it seems as though the shooting part would have taken place before the rape. I sure don't know the whole story, so everything may be on the up and up, but the police were probably trying to figure out how all of that happened as well.

I have a lifelong friend who shot a guy in the chest during the middle of the day in a Craigslist deal gone bad. Bad guys got the jump on him and put a gun to his head. He took advantage of a distraction, grabbed the bad guys gun hand, pushed it away and stuck his pistol to his chest and fired. The shot guy, with help from the other bad guy, ended up getting away because the only follow up shots would have been in their back, so he didn't shoot more.

The police officer that arrived on the scene secured his firearm then shook his hand and thanked him for putting a bullet in the bad guy. The chief of police then rolls up on the scene, gets out of his vehicle and proceeds to shake his hand and thank him for being a licensed concealed carry citizen.


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465316
04/21/18 09:56 AM
04/21/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,049
Chilton County
M
MarksOutdoors Offline
Booner
MarksOutdoors  Offline
Booner
M
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 14,049
Chilton County

I'm sure that prolly 80% or more are claimed as self-defense even when they aren't. Police have to go through normal questioning protocols just as a formality. Just my personal opinion.


"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
-G. K. Chesterton
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465388
04/21/18 11:59 AM
04/21/18 11:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 854
South
Gary08 Offline
6 point
Gary08  Offline
6 point
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 854
South
I have always been told if you HAVE to shoot someone expect to be detained and do not talk without a lawyer. Do not speak while still under the adrenaline rush other than to request your right to a lawyer. I hope like hell I never find out the process.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465404
04/21/18 12:51 PM
04/21/18 12:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by ford150man
I'm going to have to be very vague here with locations and such because as far as I know some of the legal stuff is still going on, though close to coming to an end. So, please bare with me and don't ask too much as I really don't want to answer.

An acquaintance of mine, not super close friend but not a stranger, shot and killed a man. This person is a female and was kidnapped along with two of her co-workers. What the person didn't know was that of the three people he kidnapped, the female had a concealed weapon. According to all three victims, the suspect told them he was going to kill them all, after robbing them, and raping her. When opportunity presented itself, the female victim pulled her pistol and unload it into the suspects chest, killing him. They called the police, who showed up and cuffed everyone. They end up taking only her to jail and kept her half the day, locked up. One of the co-workers notified her husband who went to the police station, where they wouldn't tell him anything. Wouldn't even confirm having her. The husband threatens to get an attorney to which the station responds if he does, she will stay in jail at least 24 hours. (Yeah, that confirmed she was there then). After half a day goes by, theu finally released her. My question, is it proper protocol to take someone to jail even on a justified shooting? I know the police have to figure out what happened but they had three victims all telling the same story. Also, if they weren't sure the female was telling the truth, why wouldn't they arrest the two men as well? To clarify, before anyone asks, she was not asked to go to the station to give statements. She was cuffed and arrested, then later released.


I'll try to answer one at a time to the best that I can without all the facts;

1.The husband can threaten to get an attorney all he wants, but until she asks for one, the interview will proceed.

2. People are detained during investigations, even on what is later determined to be a justified shooting

3.The two men didn't shoot anyone

4. If she didn't have to make bail she wasn't arrested. You can be cuffed when you are legally detained for investigative purposes without being arrested.

The are a lot of blank spaces in the story that need to be filled in for it to be complete and get an idea of whether the officers acted properly, ignorant but with good faith, or plain improperly.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465407
04/21/18 12:56 PM
04/21/18 12:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,936
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,936
Over Yonder
I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465413
04/21/18 01:06 PM
04/21/18 01:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,753
The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
300gr Offline
8 point
300gr  Offline
8 point
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,753
The Boonies a.k.a. Pickens cou...
Glad she and the others made it out alive and the POS got what he deserved. So what if she was detained. She's alive!!!!
As far as what the law says I can't rightly say. Thanks for posting Ford. Makes you wonder about the direction this country is headed if we don't intervene.

Last edited by 300gr; 04/21/18 01:07 PM.

Two roads diverged in the woods and I took the one with deep ruts,hills and mud.It may be bumpy but WHAT A RIDE!
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: Clem] #2465423
04/21/18 01:19 PM
04/21/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by Clem
I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.




Especially not after you just shot somebody.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465424
04/21/18 01:20 PM
04/21/18 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,651
behind my Dillon
dave260rem! Offline
Skinny’s Ex
dave260rem!  Offline
Skinny’s Ex
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,651
behind my Dillon
Massad Ayoob has been writing&teaching self-defense shootings and aftermath for 30+ years.Never speak to LE without your attorney present. Since LE will take the involved weapon an identical spare makes sense.


Only hits count.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: Clem] #2465426
04/21/18 01:28 PM
04/21/18 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted by Clem
I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.


One thing I have learned over the years, everyone has the right not to speak without an attorney present, but few have the ability.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: doekiller] #2465488
04/21/18 03:27 PM
04/21/18 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by doekiller
Originally Posted by Clem
I've never understood why anyone would willingly talk with law enforcement after being detained or arrested without having an attorney present.


One thing I have learned over the years, everyone has the right not to speak without an attorney present, but few have the ability.


Thankfully, many, if not most, criminals are not as smart as they think they are.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465523
04/21/18 04:13 PM
04/21/18 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,846
Cullman, AL
R
Ryano Offline
10 point
Ryano  Offline
10 point
R
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,846
Cullman, AL
Originally Posted by ford150man
Why? It wasn't me. Just someone I know. Just asking how it's legally supposed to be handled. What tragedy have I posted about in the past? I called 911 on a unresponsive kid on spring break. I was robbed several years ago at a gas station but what else?


Wasn't it you that had the fight with the mannequin? If so that was funny enough to tell again.

Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465556
04/21/18 05:23 PM
04/21/18 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,169
Tuscaloosa, Ralph,Fosters
Turkeyboy Offline
6 point
Turkeyboy  Offline
6 point
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,169
Tuscaloosa, Ralph,Fosters
Would like to hear the mannequin story please .


The Earth is Gods footstool
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465585
04/21/18 06:14 PM
04/21/18 06:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
I'm fortunate to live in a place where our local sheriff and DA support your rights to use deadly force.
I don't have a problem talking to my local LE without a lawyer.
Hell I've known most of them my whole life.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465602
04/21/18 06:26 PM
04/21/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,343
FL
mw2015 Offline
10 point
mw2015  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,343
FL
Get an attorney and keep quiet. Never know who Leo is and reaction. Act like your friend to get you to talk. Say the wrong thing and they lock you up even if clear self defense. Even if cut and dry castle doctrine shut up and wait for attorney.


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Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: ford150man] #2465611
04/21/18 06:44 PM
04/21/18 06:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
The problem isn't usually going to be that LE is looking to pin a Murder charge on you or looking to get you to say something incriminating with no cause. The problem is that you have just undergone a traumatic experience and your mind is racing with a million thoughts and you might say something that can be misconstrued and come back and haunt you later. Having a lawyer present can stop you from saying this or he can correct or clarify on the spot. He can hear these problems on the spot whereas you may not realize that wasn't exactly what you wanted to say until too late.

It used to be that when LEOs were involved in a shooting they wanted a statement as soon as possible while it was fresh on your mind. Now they recommend at least one good sleep cycle in order for things to have been processed in your mind. A smart officer, or person, consults with his lawyer and writes out a statement that his lawyer has read regarding the incident and presents this to the investigators. If they have any further questions as it regards to the criminal matter, they know to go through the lawyer. The protocol is different for police involved shootings as it pertains to the administrative side of the investigation.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Justified shooting protocol?? [Re: jawbone] #2465710
04/21/18 09:02 PM
04/21/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 850
Northern NY
D
Damyankee Offline
Ground Bee Enthusiast
Damyankee  Offline
Ground Bee Enthusiast
D
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 850
Northern NY
Originally Posted by jawbone
The problem isn't usually going to be that LE is looking to pin a Murder charge on you or looking to get you to say something incriminating with no cause. The problem is that you have just undergone a traumatic experience and your mind is racing with a million thoughts and you might say something that can be misconstrued and come back and haunt you later. Having a lawyer present can stop you from saying this or he can correct or clarify on the spot. He can hear these problems on the spot whereas you may not realize that wasn't exactly what you wanted to say until too late.

It used to be that when LEOs were involved in a shooting they wanted a statement as soon as possible while it was fresh on your mind. Now they recommend at least one good sleep cycle in order for things to have been processed in your mind. A smart officer, or person, consults with his lawyer and writes out a statement that his lawyer has read regarding the incident and presents this to the investigators. If they have any further questions as it regards to the criminal matter, they know to go through the lawyer. The protocol is different for police involved shootings as it pertains to the administrative side of the investigation.


Good explanation. Thanks.

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