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Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #900953
03/16/14 05:17 AM
03/16/14 05:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,541
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 22,541
Awbarn, AL
Its not always about deciding whether you agree or disagree and then telling why. With people like BSK or Dr D…..sometimes you ought to just listen to what they say for the shear sake of broadening your perspective on a subject that someone else knows more about. It must be a male pride thing because it seems like many folks have an issue any time its perceived that someone else may know more than them or may be a better hunter, etc…Too many folks on here have taken the position that they already know everything there is to know about deer, food plotting, etc…and they’re very closed off to listening to anything new or different from what they already believe. If you take that stance then you’re sure to be left behind in your thinking. Our level of knowledge of almost any subject is constantly growing , changing, evolving,…..

I think one of the reason they left is because it seems like there are a very low percentage of people who come here to really learn or educate themselves. That’s what I think both BSK and Dr D are really about. Helping to educate the general hunting public. There seems to be too few really here for that reason though and many aren’t open enough to be educated beyond anything they think they already know. The majority of the folks are hanging out at the General Forum keg party telling fart jokes and watching youtube… laugh

Last edited by CNC; 03/16/14 05:19 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: BSK [Re: CNC] #900967
03/16/14 05:32 AM
03/16/14 05:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,404
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,404
Boxes Cove
Right on CNC, it plainly states to leave the "goofy stuff" on the general forum on the Serious Forum heading. Just about everyone gets caught in it every now and then. But the name calling, piling on, closed minded I know it all, is what turns folks off here.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: BSK [Re: NightHunter] #901156
03/16/14 08:43 AM
03/16/14 08:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
J
jlccoffee Offline
14 point
jlccoffee  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL

Originally Posted By: NightHunter
The above may be true for a lot of people but do you srgue with your doctor when he tells you why you are sick? Do you argue with the mechanic when he tells you why your engine has a knock? Do you argue with you lawyer when he tells you he can save your arse from trouble? I hazard to guess NO. So why is it that when a biologist that has studied and worked with deer (enter whatever species) for several years explains something, he all of a sudden doesn't know what he's talking about? loco

It's almost like you have to be accepted into the fold around here as a biologist to be taken seriously. The only two I've seen a lack of arguing with is Gobbler and Matt and that seems to be because they pick what topics they get in very carefully. It's a shame actually! I would enjoy more biological talk.


With Doctors and mechanics, people are encouraged constantly to see a second opinion.

It's not an insult to the Dr. or the mechanic, its just a good idea.

Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #901176
03/16/14 09:09 AM
03/16/14 09:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 66,338
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
Skinny  Offline
GUVNER
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 66,338
Luverne, AL
There is also the fact that they walk and talk deer biology all day long in their regular daily work. They have to take a break from doing that or else they would go insane. I dont talk much archaeology on here because I need a break from work. Doekiller doesnt like to talk law shop on here for the same reason. Toothdoc doesnt talk dentistry on here to often for the same reason.

Also, talking shop on the internet gets frustrating because these little chat boxes are never enough to fully explain everything.


Never Trust Government

"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
Re: BSK [Re: CNC] #901705
03/16/14 04:52 PM
03/16/14 04:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted By: CNC
Its not always about deciding whether you agree or disagree and then telling why. With people like BSK or Dr D…..sometimes you ought to just listen to what they say for the shear sake of broadening your perspective on a subject that someone else knows more about. It must be a male pride thing because it seems like many folks have an issue any time its perceived that someone else may know more than them or may be a better hunter, etc…Too many folks on here have taken the position that they already know everything there is to know about deer, food plotting, etc…and they’re very closed off to listening to anything new or different from what they already believe. If you take that stance then you’re sure to be left behind in your thinking. Our level of knowledge of almost any subject is constantly growing , changing, evolving,…..



^^^ This is what I'm talking about though. Not getting second opinions. A second opinion would come from another biologist/professional not yourself or your buddy because y'all know better because you have been doing it 20 years. The above is the more common stance whether folks want to admit it or not.

I'm just saying the profession seems to get little respect from hunters for some reason.

Last edited by NightHunter; 03/16/14 04:57 PM.
Re: BSK [Re: CNC] #901859
03/17/14 02:27 AM
03/17/14 02:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,587
Moss Creek
Gotcha1 Offline
Bright Eyes
Gotcha1  Offline
Bright Eyes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,587
Moss Creek
Originally Posted By: CNC
Its not always about deciding whether you agree or disagree and then telling why. With people like BSK or Dr D…..sometimes you ought to just listen to what they say for the shear sake of broadening your perspective on a subject that someone else knows more about. It must be a male pride thing because it seems like many folks have an issue any time its perceived that someone else may know more than them or may be a better hunter, etc…Too many folks on here have taken the position that they already know everything there is to know about deer, food plotting, etc…and they’re very closed off to listening to anything new or different from what they already believe. If you take that stance then you’re sure to be left behind in your thinking. Our level of knowledge of almost any subject is constantly growing , changing, evolving,…..

I think one of the reason they left is because it seems like there are a very low percentage of people who come here to really learn or educate themselves. That’s what I think both BSK and Dr D are really about. Helping to educate the general hunting public. There seems to be too few really here for that reason though and many aren’t open enough to be educated beyond anything they think they already know. The majority of the folks are hanging out at the General Forum keg party telling fart jokes and watching youtube… laugh


I completely agree CNC. If somebody wants to ask a follow up question, do it. After that, question what you want, but don't keep beating these folks to death. I have found out a lot from these guys (maybe I was ignorant to start with.)
I disagree with them at times, but it is in relation to my own experiences and how I see them.
We've all pretty much come to the agreement that things are a little different all over the state. Their line of work at least is scientific. BTW, when is it wrong for someone in their business to express their own opinion?
If we want to argue with each other, have at it, but leave these folks alone.
They are the basis for lots of folks to tune in. And this includes lots of lurkers.
IMO rolleyes


Matt Brock wears knock-off Crocs.
Re: BSK [Re: Gotcha1] #901930
03/17/14 04:07 AM
03/17/14 04:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,404
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,404
Boxes Cove
What's unique about BSK is he hunts and mangages his own property and does research gathering there. I found many of the same things he observed and proved, I have been seeing for years as well, confirming many of my own suspicions and theories. He is taking it down to where "the rubber meets the road" so to speak. Not only info to help you grow them , but help you kill them as well.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: BSK [Re: 2Dogs] #901957
03/17/14 04:29 AM
03/17/14 04:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,670
Lincoln, Alabama
B
blumsden Offline
12 point
blumsden  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,670
Lincoln, Alabama
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
What's unique about BSK is he hunts and mangages his own property and does research gathering there. I found many of the same things he observed and proved, I have been seeing for years as well, confirming many of my own suspicions and theories. He is taking it down to where "the rubber meets the road" so to speak. Not only info to help you grow them , but help you kill them as well.

2dogs, That's exactly what i found as well. He was one of the first to tell me, that our deer were not going to act like midwest deer. In his opinion, midwest deer should be a different subspecies, than our deer. They just don't act the same. I thought, finally, someone with a plaque on the wall that, enforces the same idea's that i've had for years.

Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #901982
03/17/14 04:50 AM
03/17/14 04:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057
Alabama Wetumpka
Talltines Offline
on probation
Talltines  Offline
on probation
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,057
Alabama Wetumpka
Arguing can Be a good thing for both sides. We sometimes get stuck in our own point of view and then that one guy will argue with use and If your not to bull headed it might just help you. The problem most people have with Biologist is they are telling us what to do and have never stepped foot on our land so it is hard to take there info but it is always smart to listen to them and take bits and pieces that will work on your land. No one person is right when it comes to Deer. Especially when every piece of property is different. So it is always good to get other Point of Views.

Your Doctor doesn't tell you what is wrong with you over the phone he has to look at you and run test And they are always practicing. Deer Management will always be a Practicing method that will keep on evolving. Matt Brock and I have gotten into it a couple of times but I will always listen to his opinion. And hopefully we can always learn from other Opinions. It is a shame that other Biologist have left but I can understand. We do argue but sometimes that is the only way some people can learn.


Hunting Is my Obsession, My Passion, My Everything, Oh so is my wife.
Re: BSK [Re: blumsden] #902115
03/17/14 06:32 AM
03/17/14 06:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,031
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,031
Round ‘bout there
Quote:
He was one of the first to tell me, that our deer were not going to act like midwest deer. In his opinion, midwest deer should be a different subspecies, than our deer. They just don't act the same. I thought, finally, someone with a plaque on the wall that, enforces the same idea's that i've had for years.


I agree with this. I've talked with folks in the upper Midwest who think we're kinda nuts for hunting the mornings because their deer move primarily in the afternoon.

Deer in south Florida breed in July and August. "The Rut" in Iowa typically can be pinpointed on specific dates - be there or be square. Deer in Montana and Wyoming and maybe the Dakotas are different whitetails than the lower midwest, IMO.

They're different and adaptable and cool.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #902145
03/17/14 06:52 AM
03/17/14 06:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,786
Florida
J
jacannon Offline
10 point
jacannon  Offline
10 point
J
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,786
Florida
Biologist don't always agree with each other either.


Grandma said...Always keep a gun close at hand, you just never know when you might run across some varmint that needs killing...
Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #902305
03/17/14 08:29 AM
03/17/14 08:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,846
Fairhope, AL
2
270wsm Online content
14 point
270wsm  Online Content
14 point
2
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,846
Fairhope, AL
I knew that BSK didn't know what he was talking about when he disagreed with my statement that....a spike will always be a spike! That's why I shoot every spike I see so they won't breed my does!! Also, spike meat tastes better thumbup

Re: BSK [Re: jacannon] #904245
03/18/14 03:22 PM
03/18/14 03:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted By: jacannon
Biologist don't always agree with each other either.


And never will. Texas biologists always disagree with the rest of us but hey, everything is different in Texas.

Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #909655
03/23/14 05:45 AM
03/23/14 05:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
B
Bucktrot Offline
10 point
Bucktrot  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
I had a very well noted biologist once tell me that if you want to see a heated argument... put a bunch of biologists in a room and get them to talking.

There is a lot to be said about education, studies, etc... and you can't discount the knowledge base foundation that has resulted from hundreds (more than that) of thousands of research hours.

Some hunters are quick to discount biologists and knowledge-base but the average person has no clue about the DETAILED, ABSOLUTE, mind-blowing, painstaking scientific approach (i.e. P-vales) to detail of how research studies and data are collected and analyzed.

People have to be willing to accept and appreciate research and education but at the same time, integrate common sense, personal experiences, etc... and mesh them together.

It's hard to sometimes understand biologists' perspective but their approach and consideration or opinion of whatever it may be, is (usually) "foundation-based" and not because they've been sitting in a shooting house every deer season for 30 years.

Last edited by Bucktrot; 03/23/14 05:51 AM.
Re: BSK [Re: Bucktrot] #937290
04/18/14 06:12 AM
04/18/14 06:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
S
Steve Ditchkoff Offline
8 point
Steve Ditchkoff  Offline
8 point
S
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,239
Auburn University
Hey everyone. Interesting discussion. wink

I can't speak for BSK or anyone else, but I think that the suspicions that people posted on here pretty much sum up why I haven't been around.

1. Super busy
2. It gets frustrating at times...pretty much for the reasons that were listed.

I don't think any of us expects everyone to agree with us on everything. We as scientists are trained to question, second-guess, etc. That is science, and so I'm OK with it when my thoughts and ideas are questioned. But, when it's taken to a personal level, it gets frustrating.

Hopefully I can find some time to start getting on now and again. I enjoyed sharing thoughts and ideas with people on here...and it gives me a good perspective on what hunters in Alabama are thinking.

Until then....


***************
Steve Ditchkoff
College of Forestry, Wildlife and Environment
Auburn University
***************
Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #937293
04/18/14 06:14 AM
04/18/14 06:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
YEKRUT Offline
Turkey Nut
YEKRUT  Offline
Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
Welcome back Steve! Glad to have you


Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #937331
04/18/14 06:35 AM
04/18/14 06:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
bigt Offline
14 point
bigt  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
Yes welcome back Steve you have been missed ......... I do wish people on the internet just not this forum would learn how to have a civil debate without getting personal. I have heard people say that is how they talk to people in person too but I seriously doubt that....


Life is too short to be small !!

http://crshuntingclub.webs.com/
Re: BSK [Re: ridgestalker] #937553
04/18/14 09:53 AM
04/18/14 09:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,587
Moss Creek
Gotcha1 Offline
Bright Eyes
Gotcha1  Offline
Bright Eyes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,587
Moss Creek
Thanks, Steve. Appreciate seeing you again.


Matt Brock wears knock-off Crocs.
Re: BSK [Re: Steve Ditchkoff] #937850
04/18/14 04:23 PM
04/18/14 04:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 755
N. Alabama
W
WARPhEAGLE Offline
4 point
WARPhEAGLE  Offline
4 point
W
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 755
N. Alabama
I appreciate you chiming in Dr. D. Don't be a stranger, come back often!

Re: BSK [Re: NightHunter] #938333
04/19/14 12:58 PM
04/19/14 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,236
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,236
South Alabama
[quote=NightHunter The only two I've seen a lack of arguing with is Gobbler and Matt and that seems to be because they pick what topics they get in very carefully. It's a shame actually! I would enjoy more biological talk. [/quote]

1, you must have missed a lot of the posts in the Turkey forum grin
2, I always thought the only biologist that was rarely argued with was u!!

Disagreement is not the prob. While there are egos, especially associated with this field, investment in education and career time, but when things get personL, nasty, or persistent it gets tiresome. Most of the time I simply don't think it is worth typing. I get paid for my opinion, I don't give it for free easily.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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