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Re: good representative buck [Re: truedouble] #878033
02/25/14 05:59 PM
02/25/14 05:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
Originally Posted By: truedouble


I would agree. We've killed 3 over 200 lbs, live weight in Jackson Co. But we've killed a lot more that were 170-190 range.

Biggest misconception IMO is that if it doesn't way 200 and if doesn't have at least 120" it has to be no older than 3.5. This kind of thinking really skews what a lot of people think is the "average" mature buck on their property. I was guilty of this for several years until I started watching 3 year olds go to 4, go to 5 and they are still 110" and 180 lbs. I quickly learned that even in some of the best areas of Alabama the "average mature buck" isn't going to score 125-130 like some people would like to think.


very true, I think the King Ranch has research that shows this

Seen a 3.5 yr old with 115" that only weighed 146 live weight on a scale, thought he was a nice 2.5 yr old til we aged him. He was butterball fat too.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: good representative buck [Re: Morgan] #878056
02/25/14 06:09 PM
02/25/14 06:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,475
limestone al
scrape Offline
10 point
scrape  Offline
10 point
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,475
limestone al
after picking up a skull mount recently and seeing about 30 smaller ones hanging up. I would have to say the the average skull mount would be around 70"-80". I would have to think that an average of all the skull mounts would be a good guess for a good alabama deer. after all if it was exceptional you would get a full mount, and if it was a poor rack you would cut it off and hang it in the barn.

Re: good representative buck [Re: Morgan] #878082
02/25/14 06:27 PM
02/25/14 06:27 PM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M


Bingo gentlemen. Even in the best soil with the best age structures a 100-115" mature deer is average in AL. A 120+ is above the norm anywhere in this state. A lot of trophy managed clubs have higher average scores per age class because they are letting mature bucks die of old age that don't meet requirements, skewing their data in favor of higher averages.. Happens often.

Last edited by Matt Brock; 02/25/14 06:27 PM.
Re: good representative buck [Re: ] #878087
02/25/14 06:33 PM
02/25/14 06:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Tru-Talker Offline
Booner
Tru-Talker  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 14,831
If you only knew.....
Originally Posted By: Matt Brock
A lot of trophy managed clubs have higher average scores per age class because they are letting mature bucks die of old age that don't meet requirements, skewing their data in favor of higher averages.. Happens often.
.

Not to hijack.... But wouldn't clubs where this happens often...skew any data collection being that if it happens often?


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: good representative buck [Re: scrape] #878105
02/25/14 06:47 PM
02/25/14 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,871
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill Offline
Freak of Nature
bill  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,871
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...

Originally Posted By: scrape
after picking up a skull mount recently and seeing about 30 smaller ones hanging up. I would have to say the the average skull mount would be around 70"-80". I would have to think that an average of all the skull mounts would be a good guess for a good alabama deer. after all if it was exceptional you would get a full mount, and if it was a poor rack you would cut it off and hang it in the barn.


Not necessarily. I've got a 142", 128" and 131" skull mounts. I already had several shoulder mounted deer and wanted something different.


"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
Re: good representative buck [Re: ] #878266
02/26/14 12:49 AM
02/26/14 12:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
H
Hogwild Offline
Booner
Hogwild  Offline
Booner
H
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
Originally Posted By: Matt Brock
Bingo gentlemen. Even in the best soil with the best age structures a 100-115" mature deer is average in AL. A 120+ is above the norm anywhere in this state. A lot of trophy managed clubs have higher average scores per age class because they are letting mature bucks die of old age that don't meet requirements, skewing their data in favor of higher averages.. Happens often.


Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

Gentlemen, we have a winner!

Re: good representative buck [Re: bill] #878571
02/26/14 06:13 AM
02/26/14 06:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,264
Jay,Fl / Gulf Breeze
04 Spoiler Offline
14 point
04 Spoiler  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,264
Jay,Fl / Gulf Breeze
Originally Posted By: bill

Originally Posted By: scrape
after picking up a skull mount recently and seeing about 30 smaller ones hanging up. I would have to say the the average skull mount would be around 70"-80". I would have to think that an average of all the skull mounts would be a good guess for a good alabama deer. after all if it was exceptional you would get a full mount, and if it was a poor rack you would cut it off and hang it in the barn.


Not necessarily. I've got a 142", 128" and 131" skull mounts. I already had several shoulder mounted deer and wanted something different.


He is saying on "Average" Bill... I completely agree with him. A lot of us here aren't really a good representation of "Average" standards statewide...

Re: good representative buck [Re: truedouble] #878576
02/26/14 06:15 AM
02/26/14 06:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,264
Jay,Fl / Gulf Breeze
04 Spoiler Offline
14 point
04 Spoiler  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,264
Jay,Fl / Gulf Breeze
Originally Posted By: truedouble
Originally Posted By: Brent
I hunted Marengo County for years. A good representative buck for the area I hunted was a 100-105", 160 pound buck.

Now I hunt Jackson County. I'd say the representative buck for that area is a 115-120" 180 pound buck. I'm talking live weights in both cases. I've killed a bunch of deer but I've never killed one that weighed 200 pounds live. But, I actually weigh my deer. I've seen some from Jackson that weighed 220+. My largest weighed 192 live weight.

I was at a store (Hollytree) in Jackson County with a buck in the back of my truck that weighed 166 live weight. When I came out of the store there was a group of guys gathered around checking my deer out. They asked what he weighed. They were all guessing 210-240 pounds. People seem to have a hard time estimating weights. Just my opinion... I have one on everything.



I would agree. We've killed 3 over 200 lbs, live weight in Jackson Co. But we've killed a lot more that were 170-190 range.

Biggest misconception IMO is that if it doesn't weigh 200 and if doesn't have at least 120" it has to be no older than 3.5. This kind of thinking really skews what a lot of people think is the "average" mature buck on their property. I was guilty of this for several years until I started watching 3 year olds go to 4, go to 5 and they are still 110" and 180 lbs. I quickly learned that even in some of the best areas of Alabama the "average mature buck" isn't going to score 125-130 like some people would like to think.


Exactly...

Re: good representative buck [Re: Morgan] #883527
03/02/14 06:28 AM
03/02/14 06:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
B
Bucktrot Offline
10 point
Bucktrot  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,713
War Eagle, USA
truedoube said: I would agree. We've killed 3 over 200 lbs, live weight in Jackson Co. But we've killed a lot more that were 170-190 range.

Biggest misconception IMO is that if it doesn't weigh 200 and if doesn't have at least 120" it has to be no older than 3.5. This kind of thinking really skews what a lot of people think is the "average" mature buck on their property. I was guilty of this for several years until I started watching 3 year olds go to 4, go to 5 and they are still 110" and 180 lbs. I quickly learned that even in some of the best areas of Alabama the "average mature buck" isn't going to score 125-130 like some people would like to think
.



I would agree too. There is a misconception that a 4 yr old will be EVEN "substantially" BIGGER "next year" or even a 3 yr old good racked buck will be a monster when he's 5 yrs old and that just ain't the case.

I just want to hunt with guys that want to kill mature bucks and are not selfish nor competitive, etc... My philosophy is: do what you can to feed them; I don't think you can make a huge difference in genetics by killing "culls" and don't have a "hell, fire and damnation" if someone makes a mistake.

Back to topic... I'm a little surprised at the number of people that haven't seen many 200 lb bucks. I've hunted Monroe, Sumter, Green, Tuscaloosa, Dallas and Clarke and 200 lbs is a great weight but not that out-of-the-ordinary. In Clarke Co on the river, we've killed 4 bucks over 200 lbs over the last two years. 200 lbs ain't "that" common but they're not that uncommon. Two of those bucks would not score 100" - 110" which is disappointing but it's reality.

Re: good representative buck [Re: truedouble] #883833
03/02/14 02:30 PM
03/02/14 02:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline
12 point
mike35549  Offline
12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
Originally Posted By: truedouble


Biggest misconception IMO is that if it doesn't weigh 200 and if doesn't have at least 120" it has to be no older than 3.5. This kind of thinking really skews what a lot of people think is the "average" mature buck on their property. I was guilty of this for several years until I started watching 3 year olds go to 4, go to 5 and they are still 110" and 180 lbs. I quickly learned that even in some of the best areas of Alabama the "average mature buck" isn't going to score 125-130 like some people would like to think.


100% correct and IMO if you disagree you are living in denial with expectations that will never be met.


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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