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Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 3toe] #85615
02/03/11 07:29 AM
02/03/11 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
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alabama
Originally Posted By: 3toe
I know a lot of people who use walking railroad tracks to access deep parts of WMA's. So I guess you can't do that huh? Is walking down the side of the track in the gravel a violation too? What boundary constitutes "railroad tracks"? I would like to know because there is a place that I thought I might would need to walk some tracks to get somewhere, but not if I have to fight the law.



ALDCNR has no law/reg that prohibits access down a RR to reach a hunting spot. Gun must be unloaded all the way.

I have seen instances where the RR objected to persons riding three wheelers down the tracks, I don't personally know of any problems with walking down the tracks.

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: wew3006] #85643
02/03/11 08:16 AM
02/03/11 08:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
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Warrior River Country
3toe,

30-06
Quote:
You can not" hunt" within 50yds of railroad or road.


On a WMA, the rule is no hunting within 100 yds of a "paved" road.

Regulation Book 2010-2011 bottom of page 83 paragraph (n)

Using only the Hunters Digest will get you in trouble.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #85646
02/03/11 08:20 AM
02/03/11 08:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
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Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
Quote:
Section 9-11-12
Violations of fish and game laws - Fees of arresting officers.
When an arrest for a violation of the provisions of the game and fish laws is made by a salaried officer and the defendant is convicted, there shall be taxed, as cost, the same fee as a sheriff in the state is entitled to for similar services and which, if collected from the defendant, shall be immediately remitted by the trial court directly to the Commissioner of Conservation and Natural Resources, and said fee shall be used for the purpose of the administration of the Division of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. If the arrest is made by a nonsalaried warden or officer and said fee is collected from the defendant, such nonsalaried warden or officer shall be entitled to said fee, but in no case shall such nonsalaried warden or officer be entitled to any part of a fine assessed and collected from the defendant; provided, however, that no fees shall be allowed in cases of acquittal.
(Acts 1935, No. 240, p. 632, §56; Code 1940, T. 8, §55; Acts 1945, No. 296, p. 493, §1; Acts 1959, No. 417, p. 1106, §1.)

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 49er] #85650
02/03/11 08:26 AM
02/03/11 08:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
R
robgillaspie Offline
4 point
robgillaspie  Offline
4 point
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
ok 49er, what does that say to you. sir. give me your opinion

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #85652
02/03/11 08:29 AM
02/03/11 08:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 109
Scottsboro
3
39cohunter Offline
3 point
39cohunter  Offline
3 point
3
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 109
Scottsboro
Wow, all of this seems really nit-picky. If the guy was doing as he said and just walking (with ammo in the mag but not chambered I think he said) then where does just plain old "better judgement" come in with the warden?

Look at it this way.. have you ever been pulled over for speeding and explained to the officer the reason, whatever it may be, and you were given a break.

As a firefighter, I know several police officers and a few wardens, they are all pretty good guys and use a lot of "walking around sense" when applying the laws.

I don't know, it all seems a bit harsh, all things considered if nothing else, let the guy off with a warning b/c of his service and ethical hunting background (according to his statement about no prior violations).

I'm not too savvy on laws and courtroom proceedings but I would try to get a court appointed attorney if my finances didnt allow me to hire one, and appeal. Personnally I would have went into the fight with an attorney to begin with.
Originally Posted By: BhamFred


I, and ALL of the GWs and DAs, and Judges I know/knew disagree with the Attorney Generals opinion.

troy

Fred why is that?

Just my two cents


RTR!!
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 49er] #85655
02/03/11 08:29 AM
02/03/11 08:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,975
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
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Birmingham
49er that is correct for a WMA, something I always have to remind myself of and unload well before I get to my vehicle. I actually came across a ladder stand recently on a WMA that may be within that 100yd boundary of a railroad.

Last edited by wew3006; 02/03/11 01:41 PM.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 49er] #85657
02/03/11 08:31 AM
02/03/11 08:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
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Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
The courts have stated:

Quote:
... We note that "[s]ection 36 erects a firewall between the Declaration of Rights that precedes it and the general powers of government, including the authority to exercise judicial power, that follow it." Ex parte Cranman, 792 So. 2d 392, 401 (Ala. 2000). Sections 1 through 35 of Article I set out basic and fundamental rights guaranteed to all Alabamians, and § 36 provides that no branch of government has the authority to impair or deny those rights. Section 6 ensures that no Alabamian will be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.


The people reserve the right to bear arms... loaded arms. The state cannot trade permission to exercise the constitutional right to hunt for the surrender of a constitutional right to bear arms.

If it goes high enough in court, the Constitution will win.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: robgillaspie] #85663
02/03/11 08:35 AM
02/03/11 08:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
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Warrior River Country
rbgillaspie,

Quote:
ok 49er, what does that say to you. sir. give me your opinion


Like troy said, a salaried officer gets none of the fees or fines. An unsalaried officer can collect the same fee that a sheriff does but does not collect any part of the fine.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: robgillaspie] #85665
02/03/11 08:37 AM
02/03/11 08:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,957
Molino, FL
auburn17 Offline
8 point
auburn17  Offline
8 point
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,957
Molino, FL
This particular warden likes to give people trouble. I live 1/4 mile from Perdido River WMA on the FL side. The river is the state line.

I took my 7 year old nephew with me to let our lab puppies swim in the river. We went to a sandbar on the river from the FL side. This same warden came to the sandbar from the AL side and tried to write me 2 tickets (one for me and one for my nephew) for not wearing hunters orange on a "Gun Hunt Day". I was not hunting and did not have a firearm!

I was not disrespectful, and he let me go with a warning. So to me that means that anyone fishing has to wear hunter orange on a gun hunt day too????

It was a total bunch of crap. He was writing tickets on the AL side of the river when I got there to a couple with their 3 kids for the same thing. Not wearing hunters orange while they let their dog swim.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: auburn17] #85672
02/03/11 08:45 AM
02/03/11 08:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
There again, if these cases were to go high enough, many of them would lose out to the Constitution:




03/05/93 R.S.B. v. STATE
COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS OF ALABAMA
March 5, 1993

R.S.B.
v.
STATE

Appeal from Tuscaloosa Juvenile Court. (JU-92-283).



Quote:
MONTIEL, CONCURRING IN PART, DISSENTING IN PART

I concur with the majority's holding in Parts I and III of the opinion. However, I must Dissent from the majority's holding in Part II of the opinion.




"As a general rule, the legislature may delegate to its own appointed administrative agencies the authority to make such minor rules and regulations as are necessary or appropriate for administration or enforcement of its general statutes."

Evers v. Board of Medical Examiners, 516 So.2d 650, 655 (Ala. Civ. App. 1987) (emphasis added). The offense of failure to wear hunter orange, which is a violation of Rule 220-2-.85 of the Conservation Department, constitutes a misdemeanor. The designation of conduct as a criminal offense is not a minor rule or regulation. "The law making power, invested exclusively in the Legislature, cannot be delegated to any other department of the government, or to any other agency, either public or private. . . . Official action cannot be made a rule or regulation merely by calling it a rule or regulation." State v. Vaughan, 30 Ala. App. 201, 203, 4 So. 2d 5 (1941) (holding that a rule made by the conservation department was unconstitutional because the rule accomplished results which could only be enacted by the Legislature). The designation of conduct as a criminal offense can only be done by the Legislature. The majority implicitly recognizes this by stating that "the hunter orange requirement should carry the prestige of a statute" and refers to the rule as a "stretch".

I believe that Rule 220-2-.85 is an unconstitutional usurpation of the power of the legislature. Therefore, I must Dissent.


Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85676
02/03/11 08:49 AM
02/03/11 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
R
robgillaspie Offline
4 point
robgillaspie  Offline
4 point
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
49er, Ok I guess what I am getting at. Do we have unsalaried officers and who are they

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: robgillaspie] #85678
02/03/11 08:51 AM
02/03/11 08:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
I don't know.

DCNR 1-800-262-3151 (it's a free call)

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: auburn17] #85711
02/03/11 09:30 AM
02/03/11 09:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,812
Lower AL
K
k bush Online content
12 point
k bush  Online Content
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,812
Lower AL
Originally Posted By: auburn17
This particular warden likes to give people trouble. I live 1/4 mile from Perdido River WMA on the FL side. The river is the state line.

I took my 7 year old nephew with me to let our lab puppies swim in the river. We went to a sandbar on the river from the FL side. This same warden came to the sandbar from the AL side and tried to write me 2 tickets (one for me and one for my nephew) for not wearing hunters orange on a "Gun Hunt Day". I was not hunting and did not have a firearm!

I was not disrespectful, and he let me go with a warning. So to me that means that anyone fishing has to wear hunter orange on a gun hunt day too????

It was a total bunch of crap. He was writing tickets on the AL side of the river when I got there to a couple with their 3 kids for the same thing. Not wearing hunters orange while they let their dog swim.


I don't agree with this either and usually I am first in line to defend game wardens for the job they have to do. You could wander around photographing birds without the hunter orange during the hunt legally I think. May not be the smartest thing to do but should be legal. Maybe someone needs to let the District V supervisor know about some of these questionable actions.

I remember a case in New Jersey that was bogus and a lot of forum members donated money to assist with his court case. I'd be willing to donate towards the original posters legal fees if he appeals if others here would be willing to do the same.


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: robgillaspie] #85721
02/03/11 09:39 AM
02/03/11 09:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
Originally Posted By: robgillaspie
49er, Ok I guess what I am getting at. Do we have unsalaried officers and who are they


No unsalaried officers.....

ALDCNR pretty much phased out the "deputy game warden" idea. They were unsalaried but had very limited authority.

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85727
02/03/11 09:42 AM
02/03/11 09:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
there is no requirement for anyone to wear hunter orange when NOT hunting at any time. You should of refused the warning, and called the Montgomery office to report such actions. A warning ticket can only be given for a violation of reg/law that the officer deems a warning sufficient to handle the violation.

IF an Officer wrote such a warning, or ticket, he needs supervisory attention.

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85732
02/03/11 09:43 AM
02/03/11 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
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doekiller  Offline
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Your mom’s house
MY advise it to appeal your conviction to Circuit Court and ask for a Jury Trial. You are going to have to post an Appeal Bond to do so, but, if you win, you will get it back. Good Luck. If you need a lawyer, I will be happy to recommend one to you in your area.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85763
02/03/11 10:06 AM
02/03/11 10:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
B
Bucky205 Offline OP
4 point
Bucky205  Offline OP
4 point
B
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
Troy,

If you are retired you will know Bill Gray the supervising biologist. Bill will vouch for my character and ethics while hunting. I saw Bill in January at Barbour county, he could not believe that I had received a ticket. Chris Nix called Bill and told him that he had met me, but mentioned nothing of the ticket. I harvested a 198 lb 8 point on Barbour county WMA middle of January this year. I hunt hard but I hunt legaly. Nix told me that I would have received the ticket even if I was just carrying a bow and the citation had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I had a rifle. Officer Nix is known for being a liberal in his ticket writing. I feel that if you have a WMA that the tickets to hunter ratio is out of balance someone should noice. The Perdido River WMA is trashy and there is not even a descent place to use the restroom or camp. You can say whatever in his defense, but it is my opinion the young man leaves a lot to desired in a state biologist. I will not hunt in Baldwin county again, and will encourage other hunters not to hunt there. You have a kid with a badge who has no concept of law enforcement and a good ol boy court system to back him up. Some WMA's your odds of receiving a citation or much higher than harvesting a deer. If you drive down River Road on perdido you will see ground blinds in the road with rifles bointing straight down the road. This management area is poorly managed and most who had ever had any experiense with this WMA would say the say. If anyone here has ever had a good experience with Perdido River WMA or Chris Nix I welcome their input. I would love to hear from any hunter who has plead not guilty in Balwin county court and won. They also love to stack citations. On Jan 31 a kid who had a loaded weapon in his vehicle was charged with rifle roaded in vehicle, night hunting, hunting from a public roadway. Yes I did feel he was guilty. But this young man received more in fines than he can ever possibly pay. He would have come out better going to a zoo and dragging a deer out.
I only feel that hunters should be treated fairly by our LEO's and courts. Deer hunting is huge revenue in Alabama. Less privlidged hunters who are hunting public land should not be targeted or at higher risk of citations because of where they can afford to hunt.


"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85792
02/03/11 10:33 AM
02/03/11 10:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,517
Decatur
Goose11 Offline
8 point
Goose11  Offline
8 point
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Posts: 1,517
Decatur
Not Cool!


2019 & 2020 ALdeer Wild Turkey Competition Champions
1200 Point Club
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #85841
02/03/11 11:42 AM
02/03/11 11:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,957
Molino, FL
auburn17 Offline
8 point
auburn17  Offline
8 point
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,957
Molino, FL
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
there is no requirement for anyone to wear hunter orange when NOT hunting at any time. You should of refused the warning, and called the Montgomery office to report such actions. A warning ticket can only be given for a violation of reg/law that the officer deems a warning sufficient to handle the violation.

IF an Officer wrote such a warning, or ticket, he needs supervisory attention.

troy


I should have made this more clear. He gave me a verbal warning, not a written. But he did make me load up the puppies and my nephew, and told me if he caught us back down there on a "gun hunt day" without orange he would write a ticket. I didn't know if I was in the right or wrong at the time, I don't hunt WMA's.

I found it hard to believe that everyone on the river that day was required to wear orange.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85859
02/03/11 12:11 PM
02/03/11 12:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,510
alabama
there is no regulation pertaining to non hunters on WMAs not being allowed on the WMA during a gun deer hunt that I can find.. Nor any requirement that a non hunter be required to wear hunter orange.

On a personal note I wouldn't get caught on a WMA during a gun hunt without an orange hat on...no matter what I was doing. Too many idjets.....

if in doubt always ask just what the reg/law number is that covers the violation....


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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