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Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA #85380
02/02/11 06:59 PM
02/02/11 06:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
B
Bucky205 Offline OP
4 point
Bucky205  Offline OP
4 point
B
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
They will do whatever to prove all hunters are outlaws and increase their county revenue. If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate any help. I am truly innocent of this charge and getting nowhere. This was my first violation of any type other than a couple of speeding tickets.

Judicial Court 31Jan2011 1:00 pm
Courtroom #3 at Baldwin County Courthouse in Bay Minette, Alabama
Mailing Address:
312 Courthouse Square, Suite 24
Bay Minette, Alabama 36507

Phone - (251) 580-1647
Facsimile - (251) 937-0225
Email - jwboffice@alacourt.gov

Prosecutor Brian Britt
Officer Christopher Nix, Alabama Wildlife Biologist Perdido River WMA

Date of offense 17Dec2010
Location of offense Perdido River WMA ( 1st time on this particular WMA)

I was walking down the railroad track North bound, hunter orange, with rifle on shoulder sling; 100 yards from exiting the WMA 10:30 a.m. 17Dec2010, stopped by officer Nix and charged with 9-11-257 ( Hunting from a public road or railroad). Defended in court plead not guilty and explained I was traveling back to my vehicle and showed the court the opinion of the Alabama AG stating that you must fire your weapon from public road or railroad to be guilty of 9-11-257. Told by the judge and prosecutor that the AG's opinion was simply an opinion and had no relevance. Told by the prosecutor that the Ag opinion was inadmissible.

Found Guilty 1000.00 fine and 180.00 court cost and loss of hunting privileges for 1 year.

Not one person was found not guilty in the entire courtroom


Personal History 49 yo Combat Disabled Vet ( 70% paralyzed right side, 100% blind in right eye) 18 years service USN
Hunting experience 37 years mostly on WMA's

If you park on a public road and walk to your hunting area you can be charged at any time.

and yes I love my country, but I do find myself asking myself would I make the sacrifice again to defend what we are rapidly becoming. I understand now why so many young people have so little respect for the law.


"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85384
02/02/11 07:08 PM
02/02/11 07:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
R
robgillaspie Offline
4 point
robgillaspie  Offline
4 point
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
you should have asked for a jury trial, I feel your pain, I got a ticket for having duplicate harvest records. They gave me an extra one when I bought my Lic. If I had known I was in violation I would have Lied and told the officer that I killed it on my personel land and just showed the dup record and not my lic. OH well I go to court next week. Jury trial for me. NOT GUILTY

my advise, appeal the ruling to the alabama sup court. IF THEY WANT TO FIND IT, we are all guilty of something.

Last edited by robgillaspie; 02/02/11 07:14 PM.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85390
02/02/11 07:16 PM
02/02/11 07:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,477
Lower AL
K
k bush Offline
12 point
k bush  Offline
12 point
K
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,477
Lower AL
2 questions:

Was your gun loaded?

Is the appeal date past?

If the answer to #1 is No then #2 is relevant in my opinion. Which isn't worth much but if I was sitting on your jusry I'd vote not guilty.


"Cull" is just another four letter word...
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85393
02/02/11 07:26 PM
02/02/11 07:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,477
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7 Offline
Booner
Southwood7  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,477
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
I feel really bad for you! It sounds like if your gun was loaded your not going to win. You cant prove that you were not going to shoot down that railroad track if you saw a deer. I believe you and I'm sorry the judge didn't! Thank you for your service Bucky.


Southwood on YouTube

The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85402
02/02/11 07:36 PM
02/02/11 07:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,038
Sylacauga
doecommander Offline
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
doecommander  Offline
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,038
Sylacauga
another asshole warden. Some dumba$$ will get on here and defend the warden before the day is up. Don't listen to them. They just have not been in the wrong place at the wrong time yet.


doecommander out...........................



Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: k bush] #85405
02/02/11 07:40 PM
02/02/11 07:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,545
Bay Minette, AL
S
scrubbuck Offline
10 point
scrubbuck  Offline
10 point
S
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,545
Bay Minette, AL
Originally Posted By: k bush
2 questions:

Was your gun loaded?

Is the appeal date past?

If the answer to #1 is No then #2 is relevant in my opinion. Which isn't worth much but if I was sitting on your jusry I'd vote not guilty.


I agree. IMO I do think the key is whether the gun was loaded or not. There are other WMA's around the state where the wardens are adamant about writing tickets if you have a gun loaded on a public road. They don't care if your walking to your truck, from it, or out right obviously hunting from the road.

I am certainly no attorney and just saw 49er's post. I was just stating that I have seen wardens in different parts of the state write tickets for this. Whether the individuals paid them, won or lost in court - I don't know.

Last edited by scrubbuck; 02/02/11 07:50 PM.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: k bush] #85409
02/02/11 07:44 PM
02/02/11 07:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
k bush,

Quote:
2 questions:

Was your gun loaded?

Is the appeal date past?

If the answer to #1 is No then #2 is relevant in my opinion. Which isn't worth much but if I was sitting on your jusry I'd vote not guilty.


9-11-257 does not prohibit the possession of a loaded firearm... even on a railroad right of way.

Section 26 and Section 36 of the Constitution of Alabama guarantee the right to carry a loaded firearm and except the matter out of the general powers of government. The game warden and the judge both swore an oath to defend those provisions just the same as Bucky swore to defend them.

The Attorney General is a constitutional officer of the state. Higher courts have stated that an attorney general's opinion, while not binding, is persuasive.

Quote:
Section 13A-1-4
When act or omission constitutes crime.
No act or omission is a crime unless made so by this title or by other applicable statute or lawful ordinance.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, 110.)


It is not a crime to bear arms for defense in Alabama... even when you go hunting.

Bucky, you need to speak to an attorney if you want justice to prevail. If you cannot afford one, the initial consultation should not involve a charge. You will probably be directed to help with securing court appointed representation by an attorney if you want to pursue the case.

Good hunting and good luck with your case.
I wish you the best,
Eddie

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85413
02/02/11 07:50 PM
02/02/11 07:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
Most courts/judges will convict without a shot being taken, law says "hunting or discharging"..

I'm gonna guess the gun was loaded...

District court is by Judge, appeal to Circuit Court, ask for a jury. DA will "usually" settle it before court, lesser fine, to not have to try a hunting case like this. Fine seems a little steep, I'd expect at least half that amount.

doecommander, nice asshole comment, you wern't there and know absolutely nothing about the incident.


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #85417
02/02/11 08:01 PM
02/02/11 08:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
49er Offline
Booner
49er  Offline
Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
Like troy said, juries are the triers of fact. If the elements of hunting cannot be proven, an aquittal is in order.

BTW: troy (BhamFred) is a retired game warden. A fair one at that. Take his advice.

Keep us posted,
Eddie

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: doecommander] #85427
02/02/11 08:05 PM
02/02/11 08:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
B
Bucky205 Offline OP
4 point
Bucky205  Offline OP
4 point
B
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 595
St. Clair, Alabama
Rounds in magazine nothing chambered. Scope covers on, 100 yard from vehicle. The judge punished me for dissagreeing with the officers definition of the law. You are not suppose to lose your hunting rights until the second offense. There is nothing in Alabama illegal about walking down a railroad track with a rifle, be it loaded or unloaded. The 2nd amendment of the US Constitution and Alabama Constitution both give us this right. The prosecutor had to keep askig the officers what the law was on most of the cases. Another issue is that they totaly disreguarded the Alabama Attorny Generals opinion on the definition of 9-11-257 which stated that you must fire the rifle to be guilty. Warden informed me that I would have been charged carrying a bow, crossbow or spear. In his opinion as soon as I showed up at the WMA and drew a permit I was hunting.
The cost of fighting as a disabled vet is high. I have already given up amost a months income over this. I did purchase huntalabama.org and will do everything in my power to expose these LEO's and Judges that form the Good Ol Boy justice system in a lot of these counties that target hunters for revenue. There are some very good biologist and LEO's out there. I have known Bill Gray and Adam Pritchett for many years and have always found them to be fair and honorable, as well they run a fabulous program in Barbour county. The judge punished me for dissagreeing with the officer. You are not suppose to loose your hunting rights until the second offense. If I could give one piece of advice to hunters it would be stay away from Baldwin county. Few dear many, citations. Not one person was found not guilty on 31 Jan 2011. If the Attorney Generals opinions mean nothing maybe we should consider starting there with budget cuts.


"There are no easy days, not even yesterday"
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: BhamFred] #85458
02/02/11 08:27 PM
02/02/11 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,249
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,249
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
Most courts/judges will convict without a shot being taken, law says "hunting or discharging"..

I'm gonna guess the gun was loaded...

District court is by Judge, appeal to Circuit Court, ask for a jury. DA will "usually" settle it before court, lesser fine, to not have to try a hunting case like this. Fine seems a little steep, I'd expect at least half that amount.

doecommander, nice asshole comment, you wern't there and know absolutely nothing about the incident.


Fred, glad you're back to straighten the nut out. I tried on an earlier thread, but was just wasting time. The dude has some serious issues with game wardens. Said all of you are assholes, but won't explain why.

I agree also that the issue is going to revolve on whether the gun was loaded or not.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85483
02/02/11 09:03 PM
02/02/11 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 173
Calhoun County, Alabama
bassseeker Offline
3 point
bassseeker  Offline
3 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 173
Calhoun County, Alabama
This is why I always unload my weapon before reaching the road unless it is a closed road with the gate closed.Whether a round is in the chamber does not matter if shells were in the magazine and in the weapon it is considered loaded.


John
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85492
02/02/11 09:17 PM
02/02/11 09:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
9-11-257 specifically states "firearms" nothing there applies to bows, spears.....

I, and ALL of the GWs and DAs, and Judges I know/knew disagree with the Attorney Generals opinion. The law, 9-11-257 specifically says "hunting OR discharging" a firearm. One does not need to discharge a firearm in order to be hunting.

If the gun as unloaded they you were not hunting.

Even if you have paid the fine you still have 14 days from court date to appeal to Circuit Court.....I'd appeal if that gun was unloaded.

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85511
02/02/11 09:33 PM
02/02/11 09:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
H
Hogwild Offline
Booner
Hogwild  Offline
Booner
H
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
Unless I'm mistake.....

Ammunition IN the magazine constitutes 'loaded' and is specifically spelled out in the WMA Rules.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85536
02/02/11 10:08 PM
02/02/11 10:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
Danny, I'll see yer bet and raise ya....

WMA regs don't apply to a state law. The loaded firearm reg you speak of concerns IN a vehicle only. ONly other reg concerns roads, no mention of RRs....

troy smile smile


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85588
02/03/11 06:03 AM
02/03/11 06:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,232
Sterrett, AL, USA
stkshtr Offline
10 point
stkshtr  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,232
Sterrett, AL, USA
I thought the railroad law was a federal law since railroads fall under federal authority.


CISM- Firefighter Chaplain-C.E.R.T. Instructor
Refuel Ministries-HAM (KM4LBG)
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: stkshtr] #85591
02/03/11 06:23 AM
02/03/11 06:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 25,947
Helena
3
3toe Offline
Talking Turkey
3toe  Offline
Talking Turkey
3
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Posts: 25,947
Helena
I know a lot of people who use walking railroad tracks to access deep parts of WMA's. So I guess you can't do that huh? Is walking down the side of the track in the gravel a violation too? What boundary constitutes "railroad tracks"? I would like to know because there is a place that I thought I might would need to walk some tracks to get somewhere, but not if I have to fight the law.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #85593
02/03/11 06:38 AM
02/03/11 06:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
R
robgillaspie Offline
4 point
robgillaspie  Offline
4 point
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 307
boaz, al
fred, I was told a few days ago that game wardens get paid a fee or commission for each ticket they write. Please tell me that this is not true.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: 3toe] #85599
02/03/11 06:54 AM
02/03/11 06:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,739
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
14 point
wew3006  Offline
14 point
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,739
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: 3toe
I know a lot of people who use walking railroad tracks to access deep parts of WMA's. So I guess you can't do that huh? Is walking down the side of the track in the gravel a violation too? What boundary constitutes "railroad tracks"? I would like to know because there is a place that I thought I might would need to walk some tracks to get somewhere, but not if I have to fight the law.


You can not" hunt" within 50yds of railroad or road.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: robgillaspie] #85614
02/03/11 07:27 AM
02/03/11 07:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
BhamFred Online mad
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Online Mad
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35,424
alabama
Originally Posted By: robgillaspie
fred, I was told a few days ago that game wardens get paid a fee or commission for each ticket they write. Please tell me that this is not true.


NOT TRUE. Wardens don't have a quota either, a set number of cases, or contacts, they have to make a month/quarter/year. State Troopers have a quota on number of contacts per shift, but just about any contact with a driver(wreck, warning, ticket, etc) is a contact.

GWs are paid a set amount each two weeks for working and only added overtime pay will increase the pay.

troy


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
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