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Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #790603
12/22/13 04:58 AM
12/22/13 04:58 AM
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Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
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The Bible as contradictory; WOW. You just said that the Word of God, That God is contradictory.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: R_H_Clark] #790618
12/22/13 05:06 AM
12/22/13 05:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
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Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
I'm done with this thread. I've presented everything that is needed for anyone who really wants to find the truth to find it. All the information is in the link I posted that is needed for you to see the truth as outlined in scripture. Most of you will not do the study to find truth. For anyone who does not want to find the truth, no farther arguing will do any good.

For those who will not accept the truth I ask you this one question. Do you really think that a person who was divorced by their spouse due to no fault of theirs would never be allowed by God to marry a different person? All I am saying is that scripture does allow it. I'm not saying that divorce is good by any means. I know God does not want people to divorce. Divorce hurts people, but don't wrongly use scriptures to hurt divorced people even more.


Get over yourself and stop looking down your self righteous nose at others. Your posed scenario stated that a woman who is a believer left for no reason can remarry, that is NOT Biblical, you are the one misleading people. Read the Apostle Paul's writings and not some man who gives you his opinion based on "church fathers" who had a lot of issues themselves concerning scripture, one of which was murderer in that he had an entire group of people killed because they did not believe the way he did (I'll let you look that up and figure it out). Follow what scriptures say and not what you or someone else wants them to say. If a spouse commits adultery, or chooses to loose the other based on their own unbelief then that spouse is not bound and may remarry. If a spouse is loosed through no fault of their own then they are free; again your scenario was NOT based upon that so why have you changed the argument to something other than the previously stated scenario?


You obviously did not read the link I posted. You skimmed over it and came to a false conclusion the same way you have done with the scriptures and my postings. The early church listings were only given to show what different early leaders had said about marriage. Those opinions are not what the author uses to make his case but you obviously missed that too. The author will take you through scripture to show you the truth. Make sure you get this now, I said "scripture" not church opinion.

A woman who is a believer and leaves is in the wrong, but that does not mean that she can never repent without remarrying her previous husband. Yes, it would be wonderful if they can work things out but sometimes that just isn't possible. That man may not even want her back and if she wants to go back and he will accept her than fine.
What you are saying though is that she has committed a sin and even if she wants to repent of it she cannot without remarrying her original husband or is she is remarried she must commit another sin and break her vows to that husband and remain single. That my friend is the worst kind of self righteousness and I hope you are never on the receiving end of it.

But as I said I really am done with this thread because it's going nowhere fast. If you don't want to change your mind you won't but I've done all that is necessary on my part.

I do want to edit and add that I hate that I have become a bit riled with this discussion. I do not mean to get angry or frustrated and I'm sorry because I know I have. I honestly only wanted to help and not just argue. I hope we can continue talks t another time with no animosity toward each other. I wish everyone in this thread a merry Christmas.


I read your post and the web site, you can call me what you want, you can imply what you will about me, but it does not change the fact that the Bible does not state what you claim that it does concerning the scenario that you have described. I see that I am now self righteous to include sinless, even though I have never claimed either. I have simply stated what the Bible says and in doing so you made these statements to include questioning whether I had the Spirit of Christ in me. So make me out to be the bad guy, that's fine but I do not and will not follow the opinions of a man or the traditions of man in place of the Word of God.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #790623
12/22/13 05:14 AM
12/22/13 05:14 AM
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Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
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For those of you on this thread; here is the scripture that answers the question/scenario put forth by RH:
1 Cor 7:10-16
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
KJV
Based upon Paul's writings, the scenario put forth of a "believing" wife who leaves for no reason is sinning and can not remarry, read vs 11 and see if it says otherwise.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #790625
12/22/13 05:16 AM
12/22/13 05:16 AM
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Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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R_H_Clark Offline
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What I have said many times through this thread is that if you misunderstand anything in scripture, it does seem to have contradictions you have to take it as a whole and along with the Holy Spirit try to dig deep enough to find the true meaning whenever things look contradictory to you. To find the true mean is to interpret in such a way as all scripture agrees. The link I posted is a prime example of that.

Then there are some things in the Bible that I just don't yet fully understand.
Matthew 27:3-8 and Acts 1:16-19
1.By hanging (Matthew 27:3-8) - "Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!" 5And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6And the chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood." 7And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potterís Field as a burial place for strangers. 8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day."
2.By falling (Acts 1:16-19) - "Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17"For he was counted among us, and received his portion in this ministry." 18(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)"

I can only conclude that ancient authors had different thought patterns than myself and this may have been a strange way to say the same thing. Knowing that these seeming contradictions exist is good for me because it causes me to dig deep with God's help to try to understand the full meaning of things rather than just taking the surface and saying "that's what God said" and apply it in a way God never intended, such as plucking out my eye. We have the Holy Spirit to help lead and guide us into all truth.

And yes sbo, I will not argue in this thread or discuss the original subject any farther.

Last edited by R_H_Clark; 12/22/13 05:38 AM.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: sbo1971] #790670
12/22/13 05:49 AM
12/22/13 05:49 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
I'm done with this thread. I've presented everything that is needed for anyone who really wants to find the truth to find it. All the information is in the link I posted that is needed for you to see the truth as outlined in scripture. Most of you will not do the study to find truth. For anyone who does not want to find the truth, no farther arguing will do any good.

For those who will not accept the truth I ask you this one question. Do you really think that a person who was divorced by their spouse due to no fault of theirs would never be allowed by God to marry a different person? All I am saying is that scripture does allow it. I'm not saying that divorce is good by any means. I know God does not want people to divorce. Divorce hurts people, but don't wrongly use scriptures to hurt divorced people even more.


Get over yourself and stop looking down your self righteous nose at others. Your posed scenario stated that a woman who is a believer left for no reason can remarry, that is NOT Biblical, you are the one misleading people. Read the Apostle Paul's writings and not some man who gives you his opinion based on "church fathers" who had a lot of issues themselves concerning scripture, one of which was murderer in that he had an entire group of people killed because they did not believe the way he did (I'll let you look that up and figure it out). Follow what scriptures say and not what you or someone else wants them to say. If a spouse commits adultery, or chooses to loose the other based on their own unbelief then that spouse is not bound and may remarry. If a spouse is loosed through no fault of their own then they are free; again your scenario was NOT based upon that so why have you changed the argument to something other than the previously stated scenario?


You obviously did not read the link I posted. You skimmed over it and came to a false conclusion the same way you have done with the scriptures and my postings. The early church listings were only given to show what different early leaders had said about marriage. Those opinions are not what the author uses to make his case but you obviously missed that too. The author will take you through scripture to show you the truth. Make sure you get this now, I said "scripture" not church opinion.

A woman who is a believer and leaves is in the wrong, but that does not mean that she can never repent without remarrying her previous husband. Yes, it would be wonderful if they can work things out but sometimes that just isn't possible. That man may not even want her back and if she wants to go back and he will accept her than fine.
What you are saying though is that she has committed a sin and even if she wants to repent of it she cannot without remarrying her original husband or is she is remarried she must commit another sin and break her vows to that husband and remain single. That my friend is the worst kind of self righteousness and I hope you are never on the receiving end of it.

But as I said I really am done with this thread because it's going nowhere fast. If you don't want to change your mind you won't but I've done all that is necessary on my part.

I do want to edit and add that I hate that I have become a bit riled with this discussion. I do not mean to get angry or frustrated and I'm sorry because I know I have. I honestly only wanted to help and not just argue. I hope we can continue talks t another time with no animosity toward each other. I wish everyone in this thread a merry Christmas.


I read your post and the web site, you can call me what you want, you can imply what you will about me, but it does not change the fact that the Bible does not state what you claim that it does concerning the scenario that you have described. I see that I am now self righteous to include sinless, even though I have never claimed either. I have simply stated what the Bible says and in doing so you made these statements to include questioning whether I had the Spirit of Christ in me. So make me out to be the bad guy, that's fine but I do not and will not follow the opinions of a man or the traditions of man in place of the Word of God.


I only want to say that I did not intend to say that you don't have the Spirit of God. I only meant to implore you to listen to that Spirit and try to find out what the real meaning of scripture is by making all scripture agree. That is the reason I posted that link. I still think that if you will read it and look at the OT laws and the meaning of the words used, and make the OT agree with the NT, not changing either, you will change your mind. I have never said that anyone should follow men's opinion over the Word of God.

I only intended to get you to look deeper and by the guiding of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God , find a different meaning to the actual scriptures that you haven't seen before. I do apologize for the impatient and belittling way I went about that. I do very much respect you for trying to adhere to God's Word. God bless you and have a very Merry Christmas.

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #790676
12/22/13 05:55 AM
12/22/13 05:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
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sbo1971  Offline
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Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
Apology accepted, please accept mine if I have offended you.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #790736
12/22/13 06:55 AM
12/22/13 06:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,800
Huntsville
JUGHEAD Offline
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Huntsville
In the interest of time and family, I'm not gonna wade into this one. But I do want to say this. It is my humble opinion, after years of being a believer in Christ Jesus and studying His word, that it is impossible to understand the fullness of the Scripture by ONLY looking an English interpreted KJV Bible. The simple truth is that we are all 21st century Gentiles who simply don't have the basis of familiarity and knowledge to fully understand all that was being taught 2000 years ago, what was commonplace amongst both Jews and Gentiles of that time, etc. Several times on this thread (and others in the past), the use of the knowledge of "men" to dig deeper and understand the fullness of what was being taught, who was being instructed, the background of what was being taught and why, has been demonized as if it is folly and is an attempt to undermine Scripture. In my humble opinion, to NOT seek out the wisdom and knowledge of Biblical scholars, Greek and Hebrew language experts, etc. brings FAR more error in understanding God's word than doing so. Once a believer has all of the available information at hand, then and only then can he study all of it and with the help of the Holy Spirit....draw a conclusion of what is being taught, why, and how it should be applied to the life of a Church age Gentile such as all of us.

I pray each of you has a Merry Christmas and draws ever closer to our blessed Savior whom we are celebrating!

Last edited by JUGHEAD; 12/23/13 12:15 PM.

"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: sbo1971] #790754
12/22/13 07:08 AM
12/22/13 07:08 AM
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Posts: 4,384
Alabama
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jmj120 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: sbo1971
The Bible as contradictory; WOW. You just said that the Word of God, That God is contradictory.


Do you think God changes his mind?

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: JUGHEAD] #790931
12/22/13 10:12 AM
12/22/13 10:12 AM
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R_H_Clark Offline
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Originally Posted By: JUGHEAD
In the interest of time and family, I'm not gonna wade into this one. But I do want to say this. It is my humble opinion, after year of being a believer in Christ Jesus and studying His word, that it is impossible to understand the fullness of the Scripture by ONLY looking an English interpreted KJV Bible. The simple truth is that we are all 21st century Gentiles who simply don't have the basis of familiarity and knowledge to fully understand all that was being taught 2000 years ago, what was commonplace amongst both Jews and Gentiles of that time, etc. Several times on this thread (and others in the past), the use of the knowledge of "men" to dig deeper and understand the fullness of what was being taught, who was being instructed, the background of what was being taught and why, has been demonized as if it is folly and is an attempt to undermine Scripture. In my humble opinion, to NOT seek out the wisdom and knowledge of Biblical scholars, Greek and Hebrew language experts, etc. brings FAR more error in understanding God's word than doing so. Once a believer has all of the available information at hand, then and only then can he study all of it and with the help of the Holy Spirit....draw a conclusion of what is being taught, why, and how it should be applied to the life of a Church age Gentile such as all of us.

I pray each of you has a Merry Christmas and draws ever closer to our blessed Savior whom we are celebrating!


I want to thank you sir for the best post in this thread, including my own.

sbo
Thank you sir for standing up for what you believe in. I may disagree, but I still respect your conviction. Iron sharpens iron. When that happens there is some friction, but both pieces should be sharper and a better tool for service afterward.

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: JUGHEAD] #791166
12/22/13 02:12 PM
12/22/13 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
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sbo1971  Offline
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Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
Originally Posted By: JUGHEAD
In the interest of time and family, I'm not gonna wade into this one. But I do want to say this. It is my humble opinion, after year of being a believer in Christ Jesus and studying His word, that it is impossible to understand the fullness of the Scripture by ONLY looking an English interpreted KJV Bible. The simple truth is that we are all 21st century Gentiles who simply don't have the basis of familiarity and knowledge to fully understand all that was being taught 2000 years ago, what was commonplace amongst both Jews and Gentiles of that time, etc. Several times on this thread (and others in the past), the use of the knowledge of "men" to dig deeper and understand the fullness of what was being taught, who was being instructed, the background of what was being taught and why, has been demonized as if it is folly and is an attempt to undermine Scripture. In my humble opinion, to NOT seek out the wisdom and knowledge of Biblical scholars, Greek and Hebrew language experts, etc. brings FAR more error in understanding God's word than doing so. Once a believer has all of the available information at hand, then and only then can he study all of it and with the help of the Holy Spirit....draw a conclusion of what is being taught, why, and how it should be applied to the life of a Church age Gentile such as all of us.

I pray each of you has a Merry Christmas and draws ever closer to our blessed Savior whom we are celebrating!


Very good post, I have no problem looking at what theologians have to say about scripture, however, if what they believe does not line up with the Word then why would anyone put their trust in their teachings? I have studied the history of the Christian religion/church from its inception to the early 1900's for numerous years, and several of the "Church Fathers" mentioned in the website are not men that I would look too for clarification on scripture. While some on here may think that I am trying to say that I know more about scripture than said individuals, that is NOT the case. After studying these individuals and what they stood for, believed, and in some case were responsible for, I do not trust their incite for guidance on something as serious as salvation or anything else that pertains to the Bible. I believe that if you want to know the Word of God then go to the source; God, "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" I was always told that I should pray before I read the Word and ask God for instruction, wisdom, and understanding, why would we not take God up on His offer to give us this? God does not hide His Word from us nor attempt to confuse us.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #791187
12/22/13 02:25 PM
12/22/13 02:25 PM
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NW Alabama
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R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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sbo
what you keep failing to understand is that in the article I posted a link to, the opinions of the early church fathers is not given as evidence to back up the conclusion of the author. The author draws his conclusions from scripture and "ONLY" lists the early opinions as examples of how scripture has been interpreted differently by different people. I explained in the first post where I linked the article, that it was not even necessary to read those early church father writings.

http://www.godrules.net/articles/divorce.htm

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: R_H_Clark] #791196
12/22/13 02:31 PM
12/22/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
10 point
sbo1971  Offline
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Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
sbo
what you keep failing to understand is that in the article I posted a link to, the opinions of the early church fathers is not given as evidence to back up the conclusion of the author. The author draws his conclusions from scripture and "ONLY" lists the early opinions as examples of how scripture has been interpreted differently by different people. I explained in the first post where I linked the article, that it was not even necessary to read those early church father writings.


http://www.godrules.net/articles/divorce.htm


I understand what you are saying, I was just responding to what someone else posted concerning referencing "church fathers"
My apologies for not clarifying.


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: sbo1971] #791216
12/22/13 02:42 PM
12/22/13 02:42 PM
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Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
sbo
what you keep failing to understand is that in the article I posted a link to, the opinions of the early church fathers is not given as evidence to back up the conclusion of the author. The author draws his conclusions from scripture and "ONLY" lists the early opinions as examples of how scripture has been interpreted differently by different people. I explained in the first post where I linked the article, that it was not even necessary to read those early church father writings.


http://www.godrules.net/articles/divorce.htm


I understand what you are saying, I was just responding to what someone else posted concerning referencing "church fathers"
My apologies for not clarifying.


No problem at all. I actually agree with what you said. I do think we have to go to the Word Of God and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. Even so, I have often thought I understood something only to later find out that I originally only saw it on the surface. We go from glory to glory and there is no end to the depth of God. He is always exceedingly, abundantly , above, all that we could ask or think.

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: sbo1971] #791222
12/22/13 02:45 PM
12/22/13 02:45 PM
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North Jackson
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ridgestalker Offline
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Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
sbo
what you keep failing to understand is that in the article I posted a link to, the opinions of the early church fathers is not given as evidence to back up the conclusion of the author. The author draws his conclusions from scripture and "ONLY" lists the early opinions as examples of how scripture has been interpreted differently by different people. I explained in the first post where I linked the article, that it was not even necessary to read those early church father writings.


http://www.godrules.net/articles/divorce.htm


I understand what you are saying, I was just responding to what someone else posted concerning referencing "church fathers"
My apologies for not clarifying.



I agree with all your posts sbo1971.


"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: R_H_Clark] #791254
12/22/13 03:03 PM
12/22/13 03:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
sbo1971 Offline
10 point
sbo1971  Offline
10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,554
Centreville AL.
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: sbo1971
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
sbo
what you keep failing to understand is that in the article I posted a link to, the opinions of the early church fathers is not given as evidence to back up the conclusion of the author. The author draws his conclusions from scripture and "ONLY" lists the early opinions as examples of how scripture has been interpreted differently by different people. I explained in the first post where I linked the article, that it was not even necessary to read those early church father writing


http://www.godrules.net/articles/divorce.htm


I understand what you are saying, I was just responding to what someone else posted concerning referencing "church fathers"
My apologies for not clarifying.


No problem at all. I actually agree with what you said. I do think we have to go to the Word Of God and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. Even so, I have often thought I understood something only to later find out that I originally only saw it on the surface. We go from glory to glory and there is no end to the depth of God. He is always exceedingly, abundantly , above, all that we could ask or think.


Amen to that!!


Elite Omnia, Easton FMJ, Axcel Landslyde 5 pin slider.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: R_H_Clark] #791379
12/22/13 04:36 PM
12/22/13 04:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 11,360
Walker county
Driveby Offline
Doing the best I can.
Driveby  Offline
Doing the best I can.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 11,360
Walker county
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
The law did indeed allow divorce and remarriage and not only for fornication.
Deuteronomy 24: 1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another manís wife. 3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before YHWH: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which YHWH thy Elohim giveth thee for an inheritance.

Notice: "she may go and be another man's wife". It does not say, is someone commits adultery.

Jesus did not contradict the law! He actually said that he did not come to destroy the law.

In Matt.19
Jesus was speaking to a group of Pharisees who were in the practice of divorcing and marrying again because they desired another woman. He explained that to do such was adultery even if they were following the letter of the law.

There are many of you who would take this sacred teaching and turn it into a bondage to destroy anyone who has suffered divorce. You will not accept the teachings of the entire Bible both old and new testament because you would rather hold on to your tradition, but it is a tradition that enslaves people to bondage.

The only way you can hold onto your tradition is to deny Deut.24 It is the Torah and not just suggestion as (Goose) would believe. Jesus did not contradict the law with his teaching so you must not have properly understood his teaching if you think a divorced person isn't allowed to remarry except if fornication was involved.

A divorced man or woman who has married again is not still in adultery. You would liken them to a thief who keeps stealing and say that as long as they are married they are in adultery. You would have them break another marriage to satisfy your tradition and misplaced sense of righteousness. You are worse than the Pharisees.

The only way they would be as guilty as a thief that keeps stealing is if they were still treating their present wife as they treated the first. If they were in lust with yet another woman. When a thief steals and repents, he isn't required to repay all he has stolen before he can receive forgiveness. A man isn't required to divorce his present wife to receive forgiveness for divorcing his first wife. That's about as dumb as saying someone must kill again to receive forgiveness for killing

I am not trying to win an argument. This is important to me because divorced people are suffering. Those who refuse to see the truth try to destroy them with the Word of God which was meant to set them free. God hates divorce but he hates it because it hurts people. Some things cannot be undone and God in his infinite love certainly will forgive and restore people. If you cannot understand this it is because you would rather hold on to your tradition than receive the truth and I don't think I can do anything else to change your mind. I certainly hope you never have to suffer divorce and especially one without fornication from which, according to you there is no restoration. I also hope God will forgive you for all the people you have hurt and kept from the Gospel.

I don't know where you get this logic. Yeah Jesus lived under the old law but he also done away with the old law. I'm not an old testament jew and I don't live under the old law. If you do I suggest you buy up some unblemished sheep and get to saccrificing. You have not given one verse of scripture to back up your stance other than one that no longer pertains to new testament christians. The old law is no more. That's why we no longer cut off hands and gouge eyes. If it wasn't then Jesus died for nothing. Shoot, if we're going to live the old way I'm gonna round me up some concubines.


The true mark of a man is not how he conducts himself during times of prosperity, but how he conducts himself during times of adversity.
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: Driveby] #791458
12/22/13 05:15 PM
12/22/13 05:15 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
Originally Posted By: Driveby
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
The law did indeed allow divorce and remarriage and not only for fornication.
Deuteronomy 24: 1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another manís wife. 3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before YHWH: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which YHWH thy Elohim giveth thee for an inheritance.

Notice: "she may go and be another man's wife". It does not say, is someone commits adultery.

Jesus did not contradict the law! He actually said that he did not come to destroy the law.

In Matt.19
Jesus was speaking to a group of Pharisees who were in the practice of divorcing and marrying again because they desired another woman. He explained that to do such was adultery even if they were following the letter of the law.

There are many of you who would take this sacred teaching and turn it into a bondage to destroy anyone who has suffered divorce. You will not accept the teachings of the entire Bible both old and new testament because you would rather hold on to your tradition, but it is a tradition that enslaves people to bondage.

The only way you can hold onto your tradition is to deny Deut.24 It is the Torah and not just suggestion as (Goose) would believe. Jesus did not contradict the law with his teaching so you must not have properly understood his teaching if you think a divorced person isn't allowed to remarry except if fornication was involved.

A divorced man or woman who has married again is not still in adultery. You would liken them to a thief who keeps stealing and say that as long as they are married they are in adultery. You would have them break another marriage to satisfy your tradition and misplaced sense of righteousness. You are worse than the Pharisees.

The only way they would be as guilty as a thief that keeps stealing is if they were still treating their present wife as they treated the first. If they were in lust with yet another woman. When a thief steals and repents, he isn't required to repay all he has stolen before he can receive forgiveness. A man isn't required to divorce his present wife to receive forgiveness for divorcing his first wife. That's about as dumb as saying someone must kill again to receive forgiveness for killing

I am not trying to win an argument. This is important to me because divorced people are suffering. Those who refuse to see the truth try to destroy them with the Word of God which was meant to set them free. God hates divorce but he hates it because it hurts people. Some things cannot be undone and God in his infinite love certainly will forgive and restore people. If you cannot understand this it is because you would rather hold on to your tradition than receive the truth and I don't think I can do anything else to change your mind. I certainly hope you never have to suffer divorce and especially one without fornication from which, according to you there is no restoration. I also hope God will forgive you for all the people you have hurt and kept from the Gospel.

I don't know where you get this logic. Yeah Jesus lived under the old law but he also done away with the old law. I'm not an old testament jew and I don't live under the old law. If you do I suggest you buy up some unblemished sheep and get to saccrificing. You have not given one verse of scripture to back up your stance other than one that no longer pertains to new testament christians. The old law is no more. That's why we no longer cut off hands and gouge eyes. If it wasn't then Jesus died for nothing. Shoot, if we're going to live the old way I'm gonna round me up some concubines.


We don't go by the old law because Jesus did not do away with the old law he fulfilled it. The point is that Jesus kept the old law. If he hadn't kept the law being completely without sin, he could not have been the perfect sacrifice. Jesus is that perfect sacrifice because he was never guilty of sin, never breaking the law. Because he died completely innocent, his death was for our sin, our breaking of the law.

The whole crux of what I have been saying is that what Jesus taught could not have contradicted the law. Had that ever happened, Jesus would have been guilty of sin by breaking the law. Jesus did not abolish the law or do away with it, he in effect became the law, at least in as much as when we accept him , we accept his righteousness, his perfect keeping of the law, is inferred to us, just as if we have perfectly kept the law. We don't sacrifice because Jesus is the perfect sacrifice that doesn't have to be made every year or for every sin for that matter.

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #791486
12/22/13 05:33 PM
12/22/13 05:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,517
Decatur
Goose11 Offline
8 point
Goose11  Offline
8 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,517
Decatur
Wow, this thread came back to life! I appreciate "sbo1971's" comments and everyone who added to this discussion! I enjoyed reading! God bless you all and Merry Christmas!


2019 & 2020 ALdeer Wild Turkey Competition Champions
1200 Point Club
Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #791495
12/22/13 05:42 PM
12/22/13 05:42 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
I'll say this about you southern boys. I feel very proud and privileged to be one of you. In many other places you would have many anti God comments in a discussion such as this. I am very proud to be among a group who's main goal is to actually follow scriptures. Even if we don't agree about what those scriptures actually say.LOL

Re: For you Bible scholars [Re: jmj120] #791504
12/22/13 05:56 PM
12/22/13 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,675
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,675
Madison, AL
Clark, I obviously don't agree with your arguments or conclusions, and that is fine. But one thing I do take issue is your statement, "This is important to me because divorced people are suffering." Being a Christian will not a guarantee a lack of suffering in this life and likewise repentance and forgiveness does mean there are not earthly consequences to sin.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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