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Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: gobbler] #689659
09/25/13 03:08 PM
09/25/13 03:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,092
alabama
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Originally Posted By: BSK
I'm a cat lover, and I don't think their density (in my area) nor predation numbers warrant killing them.


I never thought so either until we started trapping coyotes. Even on places where we see few bobcats and lots of yotes on cameras, we kill nearly 1:1 bobcats to coyotes. Killed 26 yotes and 24 cats on one place last year and 28 yotes and 25 cats this year on same place!

Originally Posted By: BhamFred
a 46# bobcat is rarer than a 200" buck in Alabama, most are under 30#s

I have spent thousands of hours in the wood over the last eight years and have not found one single dead deer that I attributed to a bobcat, a BUNCH from yotes, esp fawns. Turkeys, skwerls, rabbits, birds all fall to cats, but I doubt cats kill many uninjured deer or any grown deer.

Deer hair in cat scat dosen't mean the cat KILLED the deer only that it ate some deer.


I still ain't shooting bobcats... laugh


Hate to say it Troy but you sound a LOT like the biologists a few years ago trying to justify that yotes were NOT a problem to the deer herd!! grin laugh


go hug a pine tree.... laugh laugh you will not convince me that cats equal yotes in killing fawns, much less grown deer.


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689667
09/25/13 03:14 PM
09/25/13 03:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Cletus Offline
10 point
Cletus  Offline
10 point
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Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
I've seen a lot of Bobcats over the years. Some still hunting, some walking around, some called up with calls. I've never killed one. I've thought about taking one just to mount. Other than that I like to see them and let'em walk.

They have always done their thing in the predator/prey game as they should as a native predator. Lot of difference in a native predator and an invasive one such as the Coyote.

Last edited by Cletus; 09/25/13 03:15 PM.
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689707
09/25/13 03:35 PM
09/25/13 03:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,376
moody,al
spy Offline
12 point
spy  Offline
12 point
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moody,al
Bsk thats a great trail cam picture. you get that on one of your?

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: spy] #689709
09/25/13 03:36 PM
09/25/13 03:36 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
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B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: spy
Bsk thats a great trail cam picture. you get that on one of your?


Yes. Bobcat got his picture taken at about 2 feet from the camera. I bet that flash scared the crap out of him! I know how jumpy cats can be...

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: Cletus] #689714
09/25/13 03:38 PM
09/25/13 03:38 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: Cletus
They have always done their thing in the predator/prey game as they should as a native predator. Lot of difference in a native predator and an invasive one such as the Coyote.


I feel the same way. I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do. But coyotes are not native predators to Southeastern deer. They are an invasive, and invasives are fair game for elimination.

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: gobbler] #689722
09/25/13 03:41 PM
09/25/13 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Originally Posted By: BSK
I'm a cat lover, and I don't think their density (in my area) nor predation numbers warrant killing them.


I never thought so either until we started trapping coyotes. Even on places where we see few bobcats and lots of yotes on cameras, we kill nearly 1:1 bobcats to coyotes. Killed 26 yotes and 24 cats on one place last year and 28 yotes and 25 cats this year on same place!

Originally Posted By: BhamFred
a 46# bobcat is rarer than a 200" buck in Alabama, most are under 30#s

I have spent thousands of hours in the wood over the last eight years and have not found one single dead deer that I attributed to a bobcat, a BUNCH from yotes, esp fawns. Turkeys, skwerls, rabbits, birds all fall to cats, but I doubt cats kill many uninjured deer or any grown deer.

Deer hair in cat scat dosen't mean the cat KILLED the deer only that it ate some deer.


I still ain't shooting bobcats... laugh


Hate to say it Troy but you sound a LOT like the biologists a few years ago trying to justify that yotes were NOT a problem to the deer herd!! grin laugh

Gob, we see about the same number of cats as yotes also. But I get more pics of yotes. I believe Bobcats are the superior predator of the two. They are some kind of stealthy.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: Turkey_neck] #689782
09/25/13 04:22 PM
09/25/13 04:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,609
Alabama
R
Rmart30 Offline
10 point
Rmart30  Offline
10 point
R
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,609
Alabama
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
I don't discriminate on predators they all get a ticket to the truck if possible.


X2 ... coyotes, cats, coons, and feral dogs do not get a pass.


Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal. Aldo Leopold .. (except when it comes to trailer tags)
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689805
09/25/13 04:37 PM
09/25/13 04:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,181
Huntsville, AL
Claims Rep. Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Claims Rep.  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,181
Huntsville, AL
My first bow kill was a bobcat. Proud of it too, to be honest!


Jesus... I hope you know Him personally like I do.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Proud crossbow hunter!
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689828
09/25/13 04:49 PM
09/25/13 04:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,601
Hoover (poor section)
J
Johnal3 Offline
it froze over
Johnal3  Offline
it froze over
J
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,601
Hoover (poor section)
I'll kill one with a bow. Coons too. We have a trapper that comes in February, and that's what he makes his money off of (bobcats), plus he doesn't charge us, so they get a pass with a rifle. Coyotes, different story. They get shot on site!


Originally Posted by BPS
This is Aldeer! The place people come to vent their frustrations and completely change their stance a few minutes later... grin
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: BSK] #689846
09/25/13 04:56 PM
09/25/13 04:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: Cletus
They have always done their thing in the predator/prey game as they should as a native predator. Lot of difference in a native predator and an invasive one such as the Coyote.


I feel the same way. I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do. But coyotes are not native predators to Southeastern deer. They are an invasive, and invasives are fair game for elimination.


OK, I'll bite... here we go grin Red wolves (basically between a wolf and a yote - actually our southeastern yotes are closer in size to red wolves than western coyotes or grey wolves) were our "natural" predator. We wiped them out and now we have yotes. Just nature making up for the loss of red wolves - kinda "natural". Also,
Quote:
I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do.
Change deer to quail and bobcat to coon, possum, skunk, etc... and tell that to the quail plantation folks, or the USFWS endangered species managers for that matter! grin


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: gobbler] #689882
09/25/13 05:24 PM
09/25/13 05:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Cletus Offline
10 point
Cletus  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
[/quote] Change deer to quail and bobcat to coon, possum, skunk, etc... and tell that to the quail plantation folks, or the USFWS endangered species managers for that matter! grin [/quote]


Quail always coexisted with bobcats, coons, possums, and skunks. They never had to compete with large scale habitat destruction, pesticides, fire ants, and coyotes until very recent times. If the quail could not coexist ecologically with the above said animals...........we would only know of quail in the fossil record.


I suck at quoting obviously

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689885
09/25/13 05:26 PM
09/25/13 05:26 PM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M


Kill some, let some walk. We have no shortage of cats. I see way more bobcats than coyotes.

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: Cletus] #689895
09/25/13 05:31 PM
09/25/13 05:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Cletus

Deer always coexisted with bobcats, wolves, lions, and yotes (way back). They never had to compete with large scale habitat destruction, pesticides, fire ants, and coyotes until very recent times. If the deer could not coexist ecologically with the above said animals...........we would only know of deer in the fossil record.


quoting is easy - I fixed a few typos for ya grin


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689898
09/25/13 05:34 PM
09/25/13 05:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Cletus Offline
10 point
Cletus  Offline
10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
Touche

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #689916
09/25/13 05:54 PM
09/25/13 05:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
now if we wanna get into what is natural as how nature works . we "humans" are predators by nature that alone gives us the natural right to kill all other predators that might compete with us .

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: gobbler] #690076
09/26/13 02:41 AM
09/26/13 02:41 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Originally Posted By: BSK
I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do. But coyotes are not native predators to Southeastern deer. They are an invasive, and invasives are fair game for elimination.


OK, I'll bite... here we go grin Red wolves (basically between a wolf and a yote - actually our southeastern yotes are closer in size to red wolves than western coyotes or grey wolves) were our "natural" predator. We wiped them out and now we have yotes. Just nature making up for the loss of red wolves - kinda "natural".


If we had wolves (red or grey), I would not advocate the killing of wolves to protect deer numbers. I would not advocate, and would fight against the reintroduction of wolves because I believe they are a threat to humans, livestock, and pets. We (TN) are close to having a reintroduction of mountain lions from the northwest. They are already in Southeast MO and southern IL. Mountain lions are EXTREMELY efficient killers of deer and individual lion kill multiple deer per year. Once they get here, and they will, I would not advocate killing mountain lions for the purpose of limiting their impact on deer. Hunting them for sport is perfectly legit, as is killing them to protect people, livestock, and pets.

Quote:
Also,
Quote:
I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do.


Change deer to quail and bobcat to coon, possum, skunk, etc... and tell that to the quail plantation folks, or the USFWS endangered species managers for that matter! grin


And now you know why I'm not a quail manager. I believe the evidence is quite clear that the high quail populations of the first half of the 20th Century were far more due to predator control than habitat. I would not and do not advocate predator elimination simply to improve quail numbers.

Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #690261
09/26/13 06:01 AM
09/26/13 06:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,849
Lawrence County
JD_Bowhunter1976 Offline
8 point
JD_Bowhunter1976  Offline
8 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,849
Lawrence County
This is my 3rd one with my bow.


It is hard to kill or catch anything sitting on the couch!
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: blumsden] #690627
09/26/13 12:28 PM
09/26/13 12:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 355
Florida
L
Lead Poison Offline
4 point
Lead Poison  Offline
4 point
L
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 355
Florida
Shoot nearly every coyote I see, but I NEVER shoot bobcats.


Save America:
Support Christian Family Values
Liberalism is a cancer
John 3:16
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: BSK] #690869
09/26/13 03:36 PM
09/26/13 03:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Originally Posted By: BSK
I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do. But coyotes are not native predators to Southeastern deer. They are an invasive, and invasives are fair game for elimination.


OK, I'll bite... here we go grin Red wolves (basically between a wolf and a yote - actually our southeastern yotes are closer in size to red wolves than western coyotes or grey wolves) were our "natural" predator. We wiped them out and now we have yotes. Just nature making up for the loss of red wolves - kinda "natural".


If we had wolves (red or grey), I would not advocate the killing of wolves to protect deer numbers. I would not advocate, and would fight against the reintroduction of wolves because I believe they are a threat to humans, livestock, and pets. We (TN) are close to having a reintroduction of mountain lions from the northwest. They are already in Southeast MO and southern IL. Mountain lions are EXTREMELY efficient killers of deer and individual lion kill multiple deer per year. Once they get here, and they will, I would not advocate killing mountain lions for the purpose of limiting their impact on deer. Hunting them for sport is perfectly legit, as is killing them to protect people, livestock, and pets.

Quote:
Also,
Quote:
I would never attempt to manipulate a game animal population by eliminating other NATURAL predators. A bobcat has just as much right to a deer as I do.


Change deer to quail and bobcat to coon, possum, skunk, etc... and tell that to the quail plantation folks, or the USFWS endangered species managers for that matter! grin


And now you know why I'm not a quail manager. I believe the evidence is quite clear that the high quail populations of the first half of the 20th Century were far more due to predator control than habitat. I would not and do not advocate predator elimination simply to improve quail numbers.


I understand and generally agree. I neither think we can get rid of coyotes, nor IMO, should we since they are taking the role of another natural predator - aka red wolves. I trap and shoot them where needed and leave them alone where they are doing our population control for us! Same with cats.

Quail populations in the early 20th century were a function of everyone living scattered about the southeast (more rural folks per acre by far then than now) and killing and eating everything that walked or flew. However, the habitat was FAR superior in quantity than now. The southeast was basically recovering from the cut-out and get-out era and everyone burned every spring. I would say habitat was the driver and lack of predators was an influential secondary.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Say your deer hunting Part2 [Re: gobbler] #691274
09/27/13 02:19 AM
09/27/13 02:19 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: gobbler
Quail populations in the early 20th century were a function of everyone living scattered about the southeast (more rural folks per acre by far then than now) and killing and eating everything that walked or flew. However, the habitat was FAR superior in quantity than now. The southeast was basically recovering from the cut-out and get-out era and everyone burned every spring. I would say habitat was the driver and lack of predators was an influential secondary.


I've heard the habitat argument over and over, especially the part about needing more contiguous acres of quail habitat. But I've done mapping work on some of the big quail plantations in south GA--20,000 contiguous acres of exceptional quail habitat--and they still struggle to keep viable populations of wild quail. The big difference between now and the "glory days" of quail was massive predator control. In those days, not only were predators trapped for fur, the government offered bounties on some of those predators, which put food on a lot of rural tables. In addition, in those days, it was common practice for farmer to shoot every hawk they saw. While working on a quail-managed property on the GA coast, I watch hawks pick off quail after quail.

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