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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: Jack Fate] #671954
09/08/13 10:32 AM
09/08/13 10:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,655
Gulfport, MS
BDhunts Offline
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Gulfport, MS
Originally Posted By: Jack Fate

Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 3 buck limit had a little to do with that...



It's 2 deer a day.


That is not a correction.

There is a SEASON LIMIT on BUCKS 3 as stated. That started in 2007, thus that has to have accounted for some reduction of Total harvest numbers.



2 deer a day is still 2 deer a day, regardless of the sex of the deer.


I think what they may be surmising is, since the limit was imposed, once a hunter got his or her 3 bucks they were done. They may have in the past been killing 6 or 8 or 10 etc.


thumbup Some have comprehension skills.... thumbup


Genesis 27:3
Acts 10:11-15
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Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: N2TRKYS] #671957
09/08/13 10:40 AM
09/08/13 10:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,655
Gulfport, MS
BDhunts Offline
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Gulfport, MS
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 3 buck limit had a little to do with that...



It's 2 deer a day.


That is not a correction.

There is a SEASON LIMIT on BUCKS 3 as stated. That started in 2007, thus that has to have accounted for some reduction of Total harvest numbers.



2 deer a day is still 2 deer a day, regardless of the sex of the deer.


Nevermind........


Genesis 27:3
Acts 10:11-15
Hunt Long, Hunt Hard and Safe
NRA LIFE MEMBER
"Odocoileus Virginianus"-Mother Nature's original fast food
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #671960
09/08/13 10:43 AM
09/08/13 10:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749
Baldwin County, AL
longspur69 Offline
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longspur69  Offline
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Baldwin County, AL
Let me see if I've got this straight. The state wants me to believe that there are fewer people hunting, less available hunting properties, seeing less deer in a state that has increased it's deer herd.

Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: Turkey_neck] #671994
09/08/13 11:34 AM
09/08/13 11:34 AM
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North Jackson
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ridgestalker Offline
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North Jackson
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: ridgestalker] #672006
09/08/13 11:48 AM
09/08/13 11:48 AM
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Marshall County
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Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


That's right. Kill too many deer, you don't have many deer. This concept is hard to imagine for many of you, but when you live in an area with a small deer population to start with, it doesn't take much to upset the balance.


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: FurFlyin] #672028
09/08/13 12:11 PM
09/08/13 12:11 PM
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Posts: 24,828
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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Originally Posted By: FurFlyin
Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


That's right. Kill too many deer, you don't have many deer. This concept is hard to imagine for many of you, but when you live in an area with a small deer population to start with, it doesn't take much to upset the balance.



Our numbers are down from the past three years.

That's why when Jimmy has a lot of deer on his place and Joe don't then Jimmy don't give a damn if Joe has deer but when Jimmy is in Joes predicament then he is concerned.

Its not one size fits all anymore in this state and its about time.


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: BDhunts] #672037
09/08/13 12:26 PM
09/08/13 12:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,586
Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS Offline
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Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 3 buck limit had a little to do with that...



It's 2 deer a day.


That is not a correction.

There is a SEASON LIMIT on BUCKS 3 as stated. That started in 2007, thus that has to have accounted for some reduction of Total harvest numbers.



2 deer a day is still 2 deer a day, regardless of the sex of the deer.


Nevermind........



You really think a form that they can create, stops them from killing what they want? It's not about comprehension, it's about not agreeing with you.

Last edited by N2TRKYS; 09/08/13 12:28 PM.

83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672066
09/08/13 12:54 PM
09/08/13 12:54 PM
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Posts: 13,733
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How accurate are those numbers? No one ever asks me how many I harvested....

Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: leroycnbucks] #672131
09/08/13 01:37 PM
09/08/13 01:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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Fun4all Offline
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Jefferson
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
Originally Posted By: FurFlyin
Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


That's right. Kill too many deer, you don't have many deer. This concept is hard to imagine for many of you, but when you live in an area with a small deer population to start with, it doesn't take much to upset the balance.



Our numbers are down from the past three years.

That's why when Jimmy has a lot of deer on his place and Joe don't then Jimmy don't give a damn if Joe has deer but when Jimmy is in Joes predicament then he is concerned.

Its not one size fits all anymore in this state and its about time.


So have you hired the State to manage the land that you hunt on? If not, why not? One size fits all does not mean that you have to kill 2 deer per day, or that you have to kill any deer.

The State has set some general guidelines and YOU are free to be as restrictive as you want on YOUR property. Hence, they do NOT force a landowner to allow hunting on their property to keep the prescribed age, sex ratio, antler mass, etc of the herd in check so the neighbor has good hunting.

MICRO-MANAGING from the top NEVER works! If it does name a single instance?


"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: burbank] #672170
09/08/13 02:05 PM
09/08/13 02:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline OP
12 point
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Land of the free because of th...
Originally Posted By: burbank
How accurate are those numbers? No one ever asks me how many I harvested....


All it says is standard error 4%. So I guess they presume it to be within 4%


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672202
09/08/13 02:26 PM
09/08/13 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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Fun4all Offline
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Jefferson
Originally Posted By: mike35549
Originally Posted By: burbank
How accurate are those numbers? No one ever asks me how many I harvested....


All it says is standard error 4%. So I guess they presume it to be within 4%


Standard error of 4% is acceptable if you are working from known numbers, but when they are guessing at best (per biologist admission) 4% could mean 40%, 50%, or, we just have no idea but our guess is within 4% of our earlier guess. We call that a WAG (wild $%^ guess) where I come from.

One other thing, I received a harvest survey at my house for the previous owner (I purchased the house from him 25 years ago this November). So, yeah I am impressed by the State's ability to guesstimate within 4% of their earlier guess!

Maybe I am seeing why the State has to FORCE compliance under penalty of law when bureaucratic incompetence is alive and well!

Last edited by Fun4all; 09/08/13 02:34 PM.

"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672221
09/08/13 02:42 PM
09/08/13 02:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline OP
12 point
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Land of the free because of th...
My opinion is it was a combination of the liberal doe season that was put in place to reduce deer numbers. The problem is it was applied to the entire state instead of only the areas where the population needed to be reduced. Along with the rise of the coyote population that exploded about that same time. The explosion in the coyote population was probably unforeseen at that time. I just hope they don't wait to long until they decide we have reduced the herd enough is most places that doe season needs reduced. Or 8-10 years from now we will be talking about how good it use to be before the herd was reduced to the point it couldn't recover due to increased coyote population which must be factored in to the doe harvest going forward.


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672296
09/08/13 03:23 PM
09/08/13 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749
Baldwin County, AL
longspur69 Offline
8 point
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Baldwin County, AL
In my opinion, the deer numbers aren't down that much if at all statewide. I certainly believe they're down in isolated areas, but not statewide.

Much like the state's figures, mine are not based on anything but a wild guess. Actually, mine are based on personal observations of hunting all over the south 2/3 of the state over the last 20 years compared to my experiences hunting 30 years ago.

Other than sitting on the porch in the evenings and counting rifle shots, what method do you know of that the state was using to estimate the number of deer killed statewide over the last 10, 20, or 30 years?

Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672425
09/08/13 04:45 PM
09/08/13 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,617
Alabama
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Rmart30 Offline
10 point
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Alabama
Originally Posted By: mike35549
My opinion is it was a combination of the liberal doe season that was put in place to reduce deer numbers. The problem is it was applied to the entire state instead of only the areas where the population needed to be reduced. Along with the rise of the coyote population that exploded about that same time. The explosion in the coyote population was probably unforeseen at that time. I just hope they don't wait to long until they decide we have reduced the herd enough is most places that doe season needs reduced. Or 8-10 years from now we will be talking about how good it use to be before the herd was reduced to the point it couldn't recover due to increased coyote population which must be factored in to the doe harvest going forward.


Agreed ....
I hate to hear hunters come in at the end of a days hunt and complain about not seeing any deer, but they did see 2 coyotes walk by.... AND THEY DIDNT KILL THE BASTARDS. Hello guys, these are the things that are eating your next years trophy deer.


Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching - even when doing the wrong thing is legal. Aldo Leopold .. (except when it comes to trailer tags)
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: Fun4all] #672467
09/08/13 05:17 PM
09/08/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 24,828
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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Originally Posted By: Fun4all
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
Originally Posted By: FurFlyin
Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


That's right. Kill too many deer, you don't have many deer. This concept is hard to imagine for many of you, but when you live in an area with a small deer population to start with, it doesn't take much to upset the balance.



Our numbers are down from the past three years.

That's why when Jimmy has a lot of deer on his place and Joe don't then Jimmy don't give a damn if Joe has deer but when Jimmy is in Joes predicament then he is concerned.

Its not one size fits all anymore in this state and its about time.


So have you hired the State to manage the land that you hunt on? If not, why not? One size fits all does not mean that you have to kill 2 deer per day, or that you have to kill any deer.

The State has set some general guidelines and YOU are free to be as restrictive as you want on YOUR property. Hence, they do NOT force a landowner to allow hunting on their property to keep the prescribed age, sex ratio, antler mass, etc of the herd in check so the neighbor has good hunting.

MICRO-MANAGING from the top NEVER works! If it does name a single instance?


I know all about what the state has to offer seeing how I work for them.

I haven't killed a deer the past two seasons due to our numbers being down. I've had the opportunity but I chose not too.

I DON'T NEED any body to micro manage anything for me because I thank God he gave me enough sense to do it for myself.

Also common sense tells me that what is good for my place may not be the same a hundred miles north. IMO


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: leroycnbucks] #672487
09/08/13 05:58 PM
09/08/13 05:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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Fun4all Offline
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Jefferson
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
Originally Posted By: Fun4all
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
Originally Posted By: FurFlyin
Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
Originally Posted By: Turkey_neck
Just my opinion but I have seen a major decline in deer numbers since doe days went season long.


X 1000


That's right. Kill too many deer, you don't have many deer. This concept is hard to imagine for many of you, but when you live in an area with a small deer population to start with, it doesn't take much to upset the balance.



Our numbers are down from the past three years.

That's why when Jimmy has a lot of deer on his place and Joe don't then Jimmy don't give a damn if Joe has deer but when Jimmy is in Joes predicament then he is concerned.

Its not one size fits all anymore in this state and its about time.


So have you hired the State to manage the land that you hunt on? If not, why not? One size fits all does not mean that you have to kill 2 deer per day, or that you have to kill any deer.

The State has set some general guidelines and YOU are free to be as restrictive as you want on YOUR property. Hence, they do NOT force a landowner to allow hunting on their property to keep the prescribed age, sex ratio, antler mass, etc of the herd in check so the neighbor has good hunting.

MICRO-MANAGING from the top NEVER works! If it does name a single instance?


I know all about what the state has to offer seeing how I work for them.

I haven't killed a deer the past two seasons due to our numbers being down. I've had the opportunity but I chose not too.

I DON'T NEED any body to micro manage anything for me because I thank God he gave me enough sense to do it for myself.

Also common sense tells me that what is good for my place may not be the same a hundred miles north. IMO


So should the State micro-manage everybody else's property? I am not following the logic that you don't need the State micro-managing your property, but think the State should micro-manage all other property because one size doesn't fit all anymore?

Sounds to me like you are doing what the State intended by allowing you to be more restrictive because you know what is happening on your property better than them. Is everybody else different and can't figure it out on their own so it would be better for the State to micro-manage their properties?


"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: Fun4all] #672544
09/09/13 01:12 AM
09/09/13 01:12 AM
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Posts: 24,828
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks Offline
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I never said the state should micro manage anybody's property. All I said was that what is good for one region of the state may not be for another.
Like the extended season. I now have an opportunity to hunt the start of the rut in Monroe county. Maybe some day we will get to hunt the full rut like other parts of the state get to. And yes I would be willing to start the season later to be able to do this so it is fair for everyone.


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: mike35549] #672596
09/09/13 02:47 AM
09/09/13 02:47 AM
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Posts: 21,724
Awbarn, AL
CNC Online content
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Awbarn, AL
On the same note of people saying deer numbers are down......What % of carrying capacity are you trying to manage for? When you saw a lot of deer, were deer verging on 100% of carrying capacity for your property? What is the current carrying capacity of your land or in other words how many deer can it hold?

What % of carrying capacity is the state trying to manage for?.....50% ???, 75% ???? Do we have a goal?

Last edited by CNC; 09/09/13 02:49 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: N2TRKYS] #672604
09/09/13 02:57 AM
09/09/13 02:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
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Birmingham
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 3 buck limit had a little to do with that...



It's 2 deer a day.


That is not a correction.

There is a SEASON LIMIT on BUCKS 3 as stated. That started in 2007, thus that has to have accounted for some reduction of Total harvest numbers.



2 deer a day is still 2 deer a day, regardless of the sex of the deer.


Nevermind........



You really think a form that they can create, stops them from killing what they want? It's not about comprehension, it's about not agreeing with you.


I think at least 70% of hunters will follow the 3 buck limit, maybe more...so yea, I agree the 3 buck limit could/ should/ has had an impact on number of bucks killed since 07...people will generally kill same number of does every year, given the limit doesn't change so I don't see the 2 does a day as a factor in decline of deer killed (assuming the state's numbers are even close to being correct).

Re: Opinion on decline of state deer harvest last 8 years. [Re: truedouble] #672622
09/09/13 03:12 AM
09/09/13 03:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,586
Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS Offline
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Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: truedouble
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: BDhunts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 3 buck limit had a little to do with that...



It's 2 deer a day.


That is not a correction.

There is a SEASON LIMIT on BUCKS 3 as stated. That started in 2007, thus that has to have accounted for some reduction of Total harvest numbers.



2 deer a day is still 2 deer a day, regardless of the sex of the deer.


Nevermind........



You really think a form that they can create, stops them from killing what they want? It's not about comprehension, it's about not agreeing with you.


I think at least 70% of hunters will follow the 3 buck limit, maybe more...so yea, I agree the 3 buck limit could/ should/ has had an impact on number of bucks killed since 07...people will generally kill same number of does every year, given the limit doesn't change so I don't see the 2 does a day as a factor in decline of deer killed (assuming the state's numbers are even close to being correct).



The number of deer taken is a guess at best. The only number that could be anywhere close to accurate is the license sales. So, hunting numbers are down. We've been told over the last few years that the youth days has recruited so many more hunters. These youth days have been going on long enough that those hunters would be buying licenses by now. Where are they?


83% of all statistics are made up.

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