Poison. Back in the 80's we had deer and no coyotes. Now we have coyotes and not as many deer. Seems simple.

It just is not worth the time and energy to chit-chat on these forums. Too many closed minds, too many folk that want to jump on someone's butt when someone does not agree, too much misinformation, too much stupid information ....... dumb dumb me thought I could come on here and learn something about the deer and deer hunting situation in Alabama. Turns out it boils down to just about the same condition as most states in the Southeast.
The REAL deer managers will tell you the easy part of managing deer is the deer, and the HARD part is managing the hunters.
Where does the future of Sport Hunting lie if HUNTERS cant agree on a couple of important issues?
Where does the future of our wildlife lie if HUNTERS cant agree on what is best for the wildlife?

When was the last time YOU stopped an asked "what is best for the deer?"?
Why does it always boil down to "what is best for ME ME ME?"?

Iv asked my last question.
Iv put in my last input.
I am going to shut up and just go spend time in the woods.

Hunt Safe.
Hunt Legal.
Hunt Fun.
HUNT.

Ya'll carry on. Keep banging your heads together. Good Luck!

Ding ding ding!!!!!!!!! Obviously, the best way to get any information is managing by coercion and FORCE by the government. Otherwise, if you disagree you are stupid!

Have fun in the woods CPiper and don't forget to record every waking moment and share your time in the woods with the Government I am sure they would love to get your insight on the state of hunting statewide in Alabama!

The last thing I want when I go hunting is to be "managed".


When I'm in the woods, it's time for me and my Father to spend some time together alone while I enjoy His Creation.

That's called freedom and liberty. You know... words like you'll find if you ever take the time to read about our constitutions.

We've seen what unmanaged looks like, pretty sure they closed the season for a few decades while restocking was being done.

I didn't know the deer were almost extinct in Alabama and that restocking was needed. Thanks, now that I have been enlightened by all means use the FORCE of the government to cause COMPLIANCE and get the data from DEAD deer necessary to see if in fact extinction is near!

Two things jump out at me .....
1. Seems some folks would not be able to enjoy God's Creation because they are so worried, hyper concerned, on what the government is, or is not, doing. Why go hunting if all you can do it think and worry about the law, and rules and regs and being managed and governed?
2. There is always some % of the population that rebels against anything and everything. From speed limit laws, to game limits, to seat belts and helmets. These folks do not want the government to be involved in anyone's life in any shape or form. These folks fail to realize that we have to, MUST, have laws and rules to help govern our society. Without the Government we would not have roads, schools, hospitals. Without laws and rules we have would have utter choas and out of control conflict.

If ALL of us did whatever we wanted with the deer, turkey, fish, with little to no regard for our fellow man, or the wildlife, we would have a mess! Very few hunters and/or land owners have the skills, knowledge, wisdom, education, experience to manage fish and wildlife. Most of what people want on THEIR land is something that fits THEM (ME ME ME), as in some sort of selfish greedy motive.

I agree that I want the Government, local/state/federal, out of MY life as much as possible. There are areas that government has no business being in. I can take better care of me than the government can. I get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also agree that our Constitutions are a life and death importance!!!!!!! I get it!!!!!!! But, if everyone one of us went and did our own thing just because we owned or leased land, this would NOT ensure the future of the habitat or wildlife. Some of us would make a mess!
I have seen this first handed! Some fella gets the notion that since he is a LAND OWNER and he does not want the GOVERNMENT to tell him what he can and cannot do on his land, he decides to bring deer into the state to put on his commercial hunt operation. Turns out he got deer from a ranch in Ohio that had confirmed cases of CWD.
He then erects a HUGE fancy network of fences around his land, complete with moats on both sides of his fence. These fences were death traps. Deer trying to get in, and out of his land became trapped in this fence and died horrible deaths.
To stave off a outbreak of CWD, state and federal agencies had to step in with their BIG resources and MANAGE the deer in this area. Over 200 deer were shot in a matter of 2-3 weeks.
How was this fair to us other hunters and land owners in that area?? All and just because "I dont want the government telling me what I can and cant do with my land, or the deer on my land".

Stupid!
Idiotic!
Selfish & Greedy is what it boils down to!

History of deer in Alabam

Funny! Most hunters are not aware that deer were hunted to the edge of extinction in the entire nation.

"Deer were rare in most of Alabama until recent years. In the early 1900s, it was estimated only about 2,000 deer existed in the entire state. After decades of restocking and management efforts, Alabama�s deer population was estimated at 1.75 million animals in 2000."

Clarification, not "hunted" to near extinction, "MARKET" hunted to near extinction, just a smidge of difference.

You must love what the Feds did with waterfowl then

Wow, this is so wrong I could write a book on it! You don't think our society could exist without the government telling us not to speed, to wear our seatbelts and helmets. You don't think that the private sector does a better job with roads, schools and/or hospitals and they should all be government run and employed? Yea, big government, aka mommy needs to tell us what and where to do everything since they know so much better!

Heck I grew up in vehicles without seatbelts, car seats and riding bicycles without helmets, then the nanny State showed up because there is apparently a large segment of society that cannot protect their self from their self.

I didn't say that because I don't know if it is statistically valid or not....I didn't design the survey and haven't looked at the statistics.

What I am saying is the the survey is already a mechanism in place to get the same information they are trying to get with the check system. There is no need for a check system when a valid survey is sufficient. To do more is a waste of effort and resources if what they want is harvest data.

I agree with you to a point coffee...with the new law the "information" that is required is still simple info. Doe or buck and probably county where it was killed. This is why I wish we would go the next step to check in stations like Tn. has. No way the avg. hunter is going to be able to score a buck or tell it's age. That's what I'd personally like to get to...county by county info. where we know numbers, ages, size, sex, etc. I'm sure this isn't something you want and I respect that. To each his own, but you are probably correct about just increasing survey numbers instead of requiring hunters to call in, although I'm all about doing what ever it takes to help put our state in a position to where it can make decisions based on sound info. not "swag" numbers.

I don't know that survey numbers need to increase. Like I said, I don't know if the survey is statistically valid or not. May be for all I know.

If AL's harvest survey isn't statistically significant, they need to make it so, pronto.

The data TN collected from physical checks stations has been invaluable, especially the age data for all deer and antler data from bucks. However, they've been moving away from collecting that data at the check station and towards collecting that data at processors. At first, I was deeply opposed to that move, as I feared the data at processors would be skewed by hunter decisions whether to take deer to a processor by age or sex. But the wildlife agency tested the processor collected data against check station data in the same area and found the two data sets were statistically comparable, hence I'm no longer concerned about the processor collected data.

That is not what you wrote. Don't make up a "OH, that is some sort of difference" excuse. The fact is, there were not many deer in Alabama, or the entire country. The reason boils down to Unregulated, Uncontrolled harvest.
JohnBoy, Bubba and Earl were shooting deer (KILLING deer) at whatever rate fancied them and their wallet.
Had it not been for the Government stepping in and putting regulations and control measures in place, JohnBoy, Bubba and Earl would have shot the Whitetail Deer into the History Books.
Had it not been for a Government Agency becoming involved and setting limits and season dates and restocking efforts, YOU/ME/US would not have the deer in Alabama and the entire nation as we do now.

And the real funny thing is, it was hunters who asked the government to step in and regulate hunting!

Not wearing seat belts is a bad idea. You would be a fool not to wear one while out on todays highways. Not wearing seat belts, not wearing cycle helmets, not obeying the speed limit, texting while driving, drinking alcohol then driving things every person with a nano-ounce of common sense should know, BUT, our society does not want to be told what to do and/or ignores the law.
And it does impact all of us in increase in health care costs. It costs in in added risks of human life of first responders. And the list is endless.
Would it be GREAT of the Government did not have to be involved? Yes!!!!! I am 1st in line to decrease the size and involvement of Government.
BUT, without Government, we have no rules, no laws, and then we have a society out of control and total utter chaos.
I for one don't want JohnBoy, Bubba and Earl as my neighbor if the law allowed land owners to do whatever they please with the deer and turkey.

Depredation Permits? Why have them???
Are they not suppose to be for a BIOLOGICAL reason? Instead they are for a FINANCIAL reason - cutting into the farmers wallet. I dont blame the farmer for not wanting to loose his income. But, I do fault the farmer who obtains permits, BUT, wont allow hunting on his property during hunting season. Its kinda twisted isnt it. Complain about the deer eating his crops BUT wont allow all legal means to decrease the deer's pressure on his crops.

Funny thing .... the one person that touts the Constitution to loudly, is also one who touts not wanting the Government being involved. Funny!

Yep.

It is called "Pick and Choose to Whatever Suits ME ME ME Best".