dang guys...you all dont need to argue about it..I have a very simple solution...MANAGE YOUR PROPERTY the way YOU want. SHOOT what makes YOU happy!

If you dont believe in QDM...dont practice it.

If you do...then the more power to you...practice QDM and manage your property the way YOU want.

See..its that easy...and everyone is happy.

You're on it Trot. Tons of info on their site for FREE. I'm a member and I think just the magazine is worth the membership fee. What other magazine has a natural species profile, showing native plants, where they grow, protein content, etc ? It's the first thing I read when I take it out of the mailbox, I love to see if I have the "plants of the month" on my place.
They throw a bunch at you but most people should know everything they say/suggest may not work for you and your property. Most know how to digest the info and pick and choose. No different from going shopping at Wally World, buy what you need not the whole store. Example, hinge cutting, it's a mid-west, up north thing, to create cover and browse in woodlot settings. In our area, with vast acreages of hardwoods ( could be pines, Gob. ), just put a logging crew in there and you can have too much of a good thing. Guys in the mid-west want cover, I'd like to send them some.
I've been to several conventions, in Chattanooga and Nashville. No one with a QDMA logo on their shirt twisted my arm while I was there to buy into their ideas or literally buy something with the QDMA logo on it. What's wrong with making $ any way?

Works for me, it is that simple. I find I smile alot when I'm in the woods.

As far as arguing, I really think we have a few that should go to the QDMA web site and ask those guys the hard questions. Pretty sharp bunch over there and they can play rough at times. Whoa Nelly, that would be quite the show.

Yes I knew that. Still hasn't answered my question.

For instance, what is the incidence rate of eclampsia in does and what is the rate of eclampsia in does carrying triplets vs. does carrying twins?

Just delete your account. That ought to fix your problem.

Which one one of those statements is true?

Your posts indicate you support the last but not the first.

I promise this is my last post on this thread. Whatever, 49er...

Outdoorobsession, you have a great point. However, I am not attempting to convince anyone... 49er or Coffee, that they should practice QDM on their property. All I am doing is defending the integrity of an organization and philosophy that I believe in.

If you want to practice QDM, in its entirety, partially or whatever.... hey, that's great. If you don't, that's fine too.

It just upsets me when QDM/QDMA is painted into a corner when someone says: "QDMA believes in killing all the does you see!" or "...if you shoot a 2.5 yr old buck, you're looked down upon." (Coffee, I'm not saying you or 49er said either!!!)

I'm glad this thread has brought some recognition to the QDMA. Go to its website and see if it's for you. If so, welcome. If not, happy hunting.

Coffee, as far as your question about the evil metabolic demands on a "healthy" doe when she throws triplets in a "healthy habitat". Well, I think you should not make that doe feel guilty about her choice and her right to have triplets AND if she decides to nurse her fawns in an open, public food plot, that's her right too!! Turn your head if the act of a fawn nursing in public offends you!!

Eclampsia? I recommend that she doesn't drink or smoke or play with hogs during pregnancy and see her biologist on a regular basis for checkups. If the doe can't afford the healthcare, the QDMA has setup free clinics in each of the 67 counties. BTW, 49er/Coffee, these clinics are of no costs to the taxpayer as this program is run by volunteers.

Speaking of making money....I suddenly had an idea.

Why don't we put some of y'all in the Octagon and charge $20 a head to get in?

It would allow some of y'all to just get it out once and for all AND

the proceeds could go to the dude who killed that badass white turkey this year and didn't have the $ to get him mounted

Thoughts?

LOL.....to the death.......or tap out......

jlccoffee,

I don't think anyone is saying that having triplets is what is best health-wise for that particular mother doe (in fact, producing young can be very stressful on a doe). What they are saying is reproductive success is one good indicator of herd health, as in a health deer population will produce more offspring than an unhealthy population. This is a well established and well-documented aspect of virtually any animal population.

After a few good post they turn into a cock fight. First in the main pit, then when they start dragging on it's to the drag pit, goes on and on. Every now and then a flurry of action and only a few interested folks watching. Those that have been to cock fights can relate.
Maybe Skinny needs a "drag forum" where these type threads go to die.

No no. To the death..


I was thinking like the Thunder Dome in Mad Max.........

"2 Man Enter, 1 Man Leave"

Oh, and who wants to be the creepy guy who says "Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dyin' Time's Here......." ?

It works for me too! And like you I smile alot in the woods...as I get to watch A LOT of deer in a low pressure low impact managed environment.

But that said if people want to hunt their land differently...have at it. I know that Ive seen great results with QDM and just will not hunt land other then managed land...as after hunting properly managed land it can be a big let down.

Hell, everybody takes those courses in college, but that doesn't mean you're a psychologist, politician and a biologist.

Bam, you're all over it IDOT, heck even this ol' hillbilly took biology and psychology. I didn't trade my common sense for them either.

I'll respond to that because I may have been one of those speakers pushing the killing of does, especially in those early years of QDM. At that time, THE MOST COMMON PROBLEM WITH DEER HERDS IN THE SOUTHEAST WAS OVERPOPULATION, and the habitat destruction overpopulated deer herds produce. I saw severely overpopulated deer herds nearly everywhere I worked across GA, AL, and MS. We QDM advocates pushed killing does so hard BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT WAS NEEDED AT THE TIME, and what would produce the biggest gains in herd health. In addition, few were practicing QDM at the time--just scattered pockets of properties--and from what researchers/practitioners had seen in that situation was hunters on individual properties could virtually slaughter the does on their individual properties, yet immigration of does from overpopulated surrounding properties would filter in during the offseason and doe populations would almost be back to where they had started the by the following deer season. Killing does appeared to be something that would be a never-ending battle, and data collected at the time, even over a number of years, strongly suggested killing does--a lot of does--was the only answer for these overpopulation problems.

And under those circumstances, we were right. However, we advocates and researchers did make a mistake. Considering just how much resistance we were seeing to QDM ideas at the time, we failed to believe just how fast QDM principles would catch on. In fact, they caught on so fast that we failed to compensate for the difference in biological results that would occur when hunters on just a few scattered properties were pounding does compared to hunters on a lot of properties doing the same. We failed to compensate for individual properties that were perpetual "doe sinks," sucking in all the surrounding overpopulated excess deer every year, to a situation where deer were not overpopulated on surrounding properties because hunters on those properties were removing their excess deer populations through doe harvests. Without excess doe populations on surrounding properties to "suck in," continued high doe harvests on past "doe sink" properties overharvested resident doe populations, reducing densities and greatly reducing daylight deer sightings by hunters. Fewer deer were available to be seen, but more importantly the remaining deer were exceptionally hunter-wary after years of being shot at relentlessly. This DEFINITELY lead to some unhappy and disgruntled deer hunters who quickly blamed QDM for their unhappiness, and somewhat rightfully so.

BSK ^^^^^^

Xs2

like watching a train wreck, ya don't want to look, but ya just have to.... I think I have better self control..I deleted my two replies

I agree with you BSK as usual. My point is that hard and fast rules don't happen in biology very often if ever.

One guy may look at a high incidence rate of triplets being born and decide to further reduce his population density with the hopes of increasing that rate. Another might look at a high incidence rate of triplets and determine that the number of deer on his property is not up to the carrying capacity of the land and reduce the doe harvest in order to increase the density if that is his goal and in turn reduce the incidence of triplets.

Neither is doing something "bad" for the deer. They just have different goals and different ideas about this subjective term "healthy".