Let me also say that I dont believe in the if its brown its down philosophy either. I just get sick of hearing about inferior mgt. bucks. I love to see deer.

Sounds like the club either needs to kick him out then or change the rules. Obviously you now know how he hunts and since it is legal and within club rules then it seems like either of the preceding is about the only way to deal with the "problem". The # of points alone on a side is not necessarily a good management practice either from what I have seen and read.

Back to the original questions - yes, I believe it can/will work, but killing a 1.5 year old doesn't necessarily make you an anti-QDM practitioner (I think even my pal Bucktrot might agree with that statement). What were the other 22 bucks and what percentage of bucks on the property did you kill?

QDMA isn't a large supporter of taking management bucks. There is a lot of misinformation on tv and the web on what the QDMA stands for because people define their management plan as a QDMA plan when it is absolutely not.

I've seen countless of these ridiculous new hunting shows quoting QDMA as the reason they decided to kill a specific buck, when in actuality QDMA had nothing to do with it. Visit their website and read some of their scientific literature that supports their decisions, and quit listening to the tv hosts that don't know what they are talking about.

Yep.

I was in a club in Bullock County that produced bucks over 150" every single year for the 11 years I was a member. Our club was all about QDM and we adhered to it. We killed several over 160 and a few over 170 as well. I killed 13 P&Y bucks in my 11 years with 3 over 150". Maybe more importantly, we had an actual rut, one like you would experience in the midwest. Our deer herd was never totally balanced due to the sheer numbers of deer, but I have hunted all over the country and I would put that tract of land up against any for both quality and quantity, no doubt about it.

QDM works guys, I don't really see how someone can argue with it. And look - if you are basing your argument on not enough land, then form a co-op and get your neighbors involved. I have done that in TN on my farms, some that are as small as 100 acres. The results have been outstanding.

Killing "management bucks" in an attempt to manipulate the deer herd is a horrible idea. To begin with, most hunters (including myself at times) have a difficult time identifying a buck that has genetic issues over a buck that has had injuries. Furthermore, to truly manipulate the herd regarding genetics based on selective harvest would be extremely difficult for a number of reasons, one of which would be that half of the genetics come from the does and how would one propose managing that? Ask any reputable breeder with a controlled environment how difficult it would be to genetically alter a wild herd based on selective harvest. Ain't happening guys.

The truth is that most management bucks are killed as an excuse to kill a buck that truly does not meet their management criteria.

Nighthunter nailed it

BAM!

I think I lot of people use the term QDM to justify killing as many doe as they want. They never take into consideration what the buck doe ratio is or what the herd size is in relation the caring capacity oft be land they just think QDM means shoot does. When actually you should only shoot them if they need removed from the herd due to the herd being out of size in relation to the caring capacity of the land. Most clubs also will not take the time to record data that would give them accurate fawn recruitment rates which is a major factor in determining harvest rates of does when needed. And they have unrealistic expectations on the size of bucks they will harvest in AL. If you can get all these factors in line yes QDM will work.

Very true.

There's truth in your post, some do use QDM as an excuse to shoot every doe they can get their crosshairs on. Just like some use "cull buck" to shoot bucks of less quality than is being managed for on a particular property. I know some "QDM hunters" who do both, but I will not hunt with them. A little knowledge can be a bad thing sometimes.

I hate the word cull, implies that genetics are controllable in a free range deer herd. Seen enough pen bucks that were injured and antlers took a horrible direction, yet their genetics are still intact. Does have a greater affect than bucks on antler traits, try and buy the best breeding doe from a breeder.

Quarantine-less Dog Management does work

Yes it works

Prove it works.

If it's based on a set of sound scientific principles, then there should be plenty of evidience that it works as the theories claim.

Links to unbiased scientific reports anyone??

DCNR doesn't have any.

Quality deer management is meant to limit buck harvest by age class not by inferior antlers. You are speaking of some type of trophy buck management but thats not consistent to a quality deer management program. A quality deer management program should promote the overall health of the herd.

Define quality deer..... 3 1/2...... 4 1/2..... 5 1/2.......6 1/2... 7 1/2.....? Which one is quality..........and to whom? Here lies the problem........ quality to one...... I bet...... is not quality to another......

I hate the term "cull buck" or "management buck"..its ridiculous. Either a buck is MATURE or he isnt. Its that simple. Its about the AGE of a buck...not their rack.

A mature buck with an inferior rack is just as hard to hunt as a mature buck with a superior rack...and to me almost as rewarding.

Notice I said "almost". There is no doubt a big thrill when the mature buck you shoot has a GREAT rack, but QDMA is not all about size.

Most "cull bucks" or "management bucks" Ive seen from people shooting them and calling them that, are just IMMATURE bucks that they just couldnt stand NOT shooting.

According to the professionals I have heard talk in management seminars there is NO way (and I say that loosly) to determin if a deer has bad genetics (a cull) without performing a DNA test. A buck with screwed up antlers may have injured them in velvet or had an injury on that side of his body while growing antlers that caused them to be funky. Also nutrition, age and genetics is what determins a bucks potential. With the right genetics, nutrition and age there is no reason why a buck can't have a big body and rack. Not every buck will be a 140" deer no matter how long he lives and without being able to watch that buck from year to year and see how he develops from a two year old to a three or four year old it is really hard to make an educated decesion on if he has the right genetics since there is no way to get a blood sample and have a DNA test performed. Trail cameras has helped this by giving hunters the ability to see a buck develop from one year to the next so hunters can say they believe that buck has the potential to be a trophy if given more time. The hard part with that is you have pictures of a 110" 8, 9 or 10 point that you let walk because he is not what you want to kill and some other hunter kills him for what ever reason. Maybe to that hunter the buck was a trophy he wants to mount or maybe he was just a killer and wanted to add another kill to his list to bragg about and he is going to cutt the rack off and throw it in a box, maybe they don't have the $400 to have it mounted but wanted the thrill of harvesting a 110" buck because they have not killed many that size. I don't fault someone for killing a 110 or 120" deer because there are alot of hunters that have never killed a buck that size and to them it is a trophy. To someone that has killed lots of deer that size that want to pass it up and then critisize someone else for killing that 110" buck because to them it was a trophy I don't think is fair. Just my .02.

By the way I in no way agree with killing spikes, four or five points unless you are a kid a woman or a new hunter that has not killed but a few deer in your life and then I only agree with taking one or two and then you need to step up your game. I agree with killing six or seven points only if they are really big and they seem to have reached there potential (which goes back to what I said earlier to determin that). In saying this as long as I agree to the club rules and join the club I can't argue with someone for what they kill as long as its in the rules and game laws. If I don't like it I need to find another club or try to get the rules changed. My problem with this is with the clubs I have been in I find that most of them do not follow the rule set forth. The few clubs that I know about that do have few members that are on the same page and they each pay lots of money to keep it that way and I can't afford it so I just have to take it for what it is and enjoy hunting with my son, hanging out with members, cooking out and being outdoors instead of at work or home doing yard work. I love the time of year and sitting in the stand on a cool brisk morning watching the sun come up praising God for such a wonderful creation. I'm not telling anyone on here how to hunt or what to believe just my opinion. Take it for what its worth, an opinion.

You are the state biologist assigned to Black Warrior, so your opinion should carry more weight than the average qdm advocate, I would think.

Have you ever done any scientifically controlled experiments comparing similar tracts of land having comparable free ranging deer populations where qdm and non-qdm results have been evaluated in depth?

If so, could you share the details with us, or are there any reports of those experiments that are available to the public?

If not, are you aware of any such reports at all?

You have any unbiased scientific reports that says it doesn't? Just curious...or do your believe all us lowly biologist have no idea what we are doing and we are just trying to dictate what you do?