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Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60520
12/18/10 02:31 PM
12/18/10 02:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,190
Shelby County
bloodtrail Offline OP
10 point
bloodtrail  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,190
Shelby County
I guess if I shot about 10 does his right G3 would be in better shape. haha J/k

Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60522
12/18/10 02:36 PM
12/18/10 02:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
"But, the 'Average hunter' does not have the Time, Property, nor Finances to manage at that level."

"No, the average hunter doesn't have the self control to manage on that level."

--

I'd say probably both of these are correct, depending on the person and/or club.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Doe Control [Re: SnapperSlapper] #60529
12/18/10 03:04 PM
12/18/10 03:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
H
Hogwild Offline
Booner
Hogwild  Offline
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H
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
Originally Posted By: SnapperSlapper
Originally Posted By: Hogwild
Quote:


No doubt about that, Clem.

But, the 'Average hunter' does not have the Time, Property, nor Finances to manage at that level.


No, the average hunter doesn't have the self control to manage on that level.


I agree with that, but only to the extent that it is irrelevant when discussing habitat manipulation and hunter pressure.

Why don't some of you guys that don't believe what I am posting provide us a list of affordable hunting clubs that provide this type of hunting experience???

They are around, and I am lucky enough to be a member of one.
But, I have looked long and hard to find it; and it is a VERY welcome change to my past 'Hunting Club' experiences!
And although managed very well, and the fact that it is a great group of guys, it would NOT be what it is without the large, exclusive properties surrounding it. We are lucky enough to reap a lot of the benefits of their work and lack of hunting presssure.
I would venture a strong guess that with the numbers Slapper posted, he is in a similar situation.......good neighbors.

smile

Last edited by Hogwild; 12/18/10 03:07 PM.
Re: Doe Control [Re: Hogwild] #60596
12/18/10 08:00 PM
12/18/10 08:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Hogwild
BTW, score up those bucks that gobbler posted.

There ain't no 150's in that group. Just good representative bucks for their age classes.

smile


I don't take pictures of live 150" bucks, I shoot them and take pictures on the ground shocked grin

And, you will note that I said "I take pictures of deer like this without even lifting my gun because they are COMMON", not "I take pictures of 130-140" deer because they are common" shocked smile Mature bucks are never "common" in sightings even though they may have a good representation in the population.

Quote:
But I'll bet he or any other management biologist could take your "average hunter" land, make recommendations and see the same or similar results if the "average hunter" would follow the advice


I don't know about any other management biologist wink

Last edited by gobbler; 12/18/10 08:21 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: Hogwild] #60604
12/18/10 08:41 PM
12/18/10 08:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Hogwild

I agree with that, but only to the extent that it is irrelevant when discussing habitat manipulation and hunter pressure.

Why don't some of you guys that don't believe what I am posting provide us a list of affordable hunting clubs that provide this type of hunting experience???

They are around, and I am lucky enough to be a member of one.
But, I have looked long and hard to find it; and it is a VERY welcome change to my past 'Hunting Club' experiences!
And although managed very well, and the fact that it is a great group of guys, it would NOT be what it is without the large, exclusive properties surrounding it. We are lucky enough to reap a lot of the benefits of their work and lack of hunting presssure.
I would venture a strong guess that with the numbers Slapper posted, he is in a similar situation.......good neighbors.

smile


You and I do not disagree on much. There are properties that need does harvested and those that don't. Objectives range from "I like to see lots of deer and don't care how big a buck is" to "we want to manage for big bucks". Some folks may want to have as many deer as possible (even to the point of having overpopulated, habitat damaging populations) and kill every 1.5 and 2.5 buck they see. I have no problem with that either - Free Choice - although I have no sympathy for them when they say they never see big bucks.

The problem I have had with this thread is:

Quote:
QDM is like global warming its a bunch of bullshit. When I start seeing a browes line on the trees where I hunt I'll shoot a few more does


Quote:
I am convinced they come from other properties where they slaughter there does every year. No Does No Bucks


Quote:
A person cannot consistently kill mature deer and kill off the does at the same time.


Quote:
I think its dang near impossible to kill a mature +3.5yr old buck on land thats hunted hard outside of bow season and the rut. By not killing a pile of does your chances of killing a mature buck outside of the rut goes up considerably IMO.


While there are a lot of BS fallacies around, the above are a lot more off base than QDM which does not espouse shooting every doe you see, just maintaining a balance.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: gobbler] #60608
12/18/10 09:01 PM
12/18/10 09:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Got a good example:
One property I hunt is @ 350 acres on good dirt in an area known to produce some very nice deer. We have hunted it for 6 years now and the folks before us slaughtered every 1.5 yr old buck that moved. I saw their gut pile the last year they had it and it was full of little racks from spikes to basket 8's...all thrown away mad . I don't know if they shot does but the population was not high. In the last 6 years 2 friends of mine killed a doe each and one's daughter killed a doe. That's IT! I felt that the population was not in need of doe harvest, coyotes were killing all the does we need, the habitat is in good shape and no browse on common browse plants, and the bucks that were there needed age. HOWEVER, to refute some of the above quotes and the "pressure" concepts, this place is also LOW pressure. We have 7 stands and 5 good greenfields. The most hunters we have had at one time was 3 stands and we have hunted it 5 days so far this year. Put my wife and daughter out this afternoon and they saw 2 spikes, a 6 pt and one doe, I saw a 2 yr 8 pt. We will hunt probably 15 + times total in the last of Dec/first of Jan and last of Jan. Pretty common annual pressure. I have had pics of 4.5-6.5 yr old deer for a couple years and usually 2-3 130'-140's each year. NO-ONE has EVER laid eyes on one. EVER This is some of y'alls prescription for big-buck harvest...Low hunting pressure and no doe harvest. We see plenty of does and 1-3 yr old bucks while hunting, don't spook them, etc. Now you might say we are crappy hunters, however all of us that hunt it all have good deer on the wall. My point - there is NO MAGIC BULLET to kill good bucks. Not doe harvest or lack of, not QDM, not foodplots, not woodland stands, not not shooting yearling bucks. None of these things will, in and of itself, yield mature bucks in front of a gun. Mature bucks tend to get slippery as they age, however, you have to grow a few to get to see one. And, yes, our ROR on this property sucks grin


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: gobbler] #60622
12/18/10 10:03 PM
12/18/10 10:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
H
Hogwild Offline
Booner
Hogwild  Offline
Booner
H
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
Growing big bucks is WAAYYYYYY easier than consistently killing them!

grin

Re: Doe Control [Re: Hogwild] #60625
12/18/10 10:08 PM
12/18/10 10:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Hogwild
Growing big bucks is WAAYYYYYY easier than consistently killing them!

grin


Amen, on that we could not agree more shocked grin


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60631
12/18/10 10:40 PM
12/18/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,190
Shelby County
bloodtrail Offline OP
10 point
bloodtrail  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,190
Shelby County
Again I can't disagree with gobbler, but most of the clubs I've been in have all shot piles of does and for the month of dec no one sees a deer at all. I would see deer every sit during bow season. This club Im in now gets hunted every day but I still see deer 9/10 sits and still see plenty of bucks. I enjoy this club more than the others. It's all about finding a club that meets your objectives.

Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60730
12/19/10 11:48 AM
12/19/10 11:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Another example on the opposite end of the spectrum. A couple of the deer on my wall come from quail plantations. Many of these persecute deer...relentlessly - shooting them out of the truck, shooting every doe they can find on fields, woods, anywhere they can because they compete with the good quail food plants (legumes) and the bird dogs like to chase them. An excellent example of heavy shooting pressure (in addition to the quail shooting and all the activity surrounding it, running dogs, etc). They usually don't mess with the bucks and the quality and quantity of bucks on these places is superb. Great place to see and kill superior quality, mature bucks. If you were to tell me I HAD to go kill a mature buck tomorrow, I would go to one of these "high pressure, low deer density" places. Go figure smile

Last edited by gobbler; 12/19/10 11:52 AM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60840
12/19/10 07:32 PM
12/19/10 07:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,055
White Plains Alabama
cgardner Offline
10 point
cgardner  Offline
10 point
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,055
White Plains Alabama
I wish we would let them walk. Every deer that steps out on a plot has been shot at this year!! I have seen a grand total of 1 deer on our club this year, and I jumped this yearling this afternoon.

Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60848
12/19/10 07:44 PM
12/19/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 336
BOAZ
D
Droptyne Offline
4 point
Droptyne  Offline
4 point
D
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 336
BOAZ
I wish we would let them walk. Every deer that steps out on a plot has been shot at this year!! I have seen a grand total of 1 deer on our club this year, and I jumped this yearling this afternoon.

I truly believe that is why they start looking up in the trees as soon as the approach the food plots.They Remember their last visit.


Live every day like it is your last.
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60870
12/19/10 08:26 PM
12/19/10 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
If you miss a deer with a high powered rifle on a food plot with no obstructions, you need to go back to the shooting range or get a good shooting stick as a rest. That's inexcusable.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60889
12/19/10 09:04 PM
12/19/10 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
Shooting does is not the problem. Shooting them on food plots is tho.I don't think you can kill all the does. There are nocturnal does just as nocturnal bucks. once you start hammering does on food ploits they just feed there at night.
They should be allowed to feel safe on plots. This will have them up and moving and allow you to kill them on the way to the plot. Someone that has to sit on a plot to kill a deer has no hunting skills anyway.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60891
12/19/10 09:08 PM
12/19/10 09:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
No difference in killing them on a planted green field and killing them in the woods under an oak laden with acorns and killing them in an open pasture where they feed or killing them in a cutover sprouting new growth?


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60895
12/19/10 09:13 PM
12/19/10 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
Clem,have you ever been in a club that didn't shoot them in plots ? I doubt it. It does make a difference. Many on here can tell you that.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60898
12/19/10 09:18 PM
12/19/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
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Clem  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
I've been to clubs that did and did not, lodges that did and did not, and I've shot deer in fields where deer came out of the woods and sniffed the dead deer and continued eating.

I just don't believe it's the magic panacea to keep food plots sacred b/c Bambi and MommyDoe won't come out if a doe got shot there three weeks ago. Maybe so. But I'm not interested in seeing 39 deer every time I sit in a stand or house, either.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Doe Control [Re: bloodtrail] #60957
12/19/10 11:27 PM
12/19/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
Clem your being a guest at multiple places has left you clueless to the work in management.When you only show up to "shoot something" You really don't see what else is happening on the land. You see a very small part of the operation to make your opinions on. I didn't plant kill plots I planted for the benefit of the wildlife. I do my killing in the woods. When does feel safe in a plot they will pull bucks in with them during the rut.
If you shoot them in a plot full of other does they tend to go nocturnal. They see other deer being killed. It has nothing to do with smelling a place where another deer was killed.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Doe Control [Re: perchjerker] #60959
12/19/10 11:43 PM
12/19/10 11:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,175
South Alabama
Again, i think it is a matter of scale. If you kill 2 or 3 does out of a food plot, you don't "damage" daylight use much. If, everytime a doe sticks it's head out of the woodline it is shot, not many deer will use the field. One of my best bucks was killed with a dead doe in the field and one of the best typicals I have seen killed in AL was killed in a foodplot that had 6 or 7 does killed out of it that year. However, I would not expect to see a mature buck in a greenfield in daylight on a field that is shot hard. Shooting a doe out of a greenfield is not sacrilegious, neither is shooting a spike grin


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Doe Control [Re: gobbler] #60977
12/20/10 07:10 AM
12/20/10 07:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,686
Hoover
burbank Offline
Booner
burbank  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 13,686
Hoover
Agree with Gobbler. It is about scale and overall pressure. Take your does early off the plots, then let em sit. They will come back.

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