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Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: BSK] #498863
01/11/13 12:14 PM
01/11/13 12:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: perchjerker
I once heard a theory that some mature bucks become sterile, they loose all desire to breed,thus remaining nocturnal and loosing all desire to fight and be dominate. This leeds to dying of old age. What say you Brian, Troy ?


No evidence of that. However, I do believe the most mature bucks are not as aggressive of breeders as the 3 1/2 and some 4 1/2s are. They breed, but are very careful about it. They do not chase estrus does cross-country, exposing themselves to human predators. Instead they drive estrus does into thick cover and breed them there.


I agree and concur. Like the old joke about the old bull and young bull, lookin' at the herd of cows. laugh



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: 2Dogs] #498866
01/11/13 12:17 PM
01/11/13 12:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,526
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,526
alabama
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: perchjerker
I once heard a theory that some mature bucks become sterile, they loose all desire to breed,thus remaining nocturnal and loosing all desire to fight and be dominate. This leeds to dying of old age. What say you Brian, Troy ?


No evidence of that. However, I do believe the most mature bucks are not as aggressive of breeders as the 3 1/2 and some 4 1/2s are. They breed, but are very careful about it. They do not chase estrus does cross-country, exposing themselves to human predators. Instead they drive estrus does into thick cover and breed them there.


I agree and concur. Like the old joke about the old bull and young bull, lookin' at the herd of cows. laugh


you missed the "sterile, no desire to breed " part.......


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: BhamFred] #498879
01/11/13 12:30 PM
01/11/13 12:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
Originally Posted By: BSK

No evidence of that. However, I do believe the most mature bucks are not as aggressive of breeders as the 3 1/2 and some 4 1/2s are. They breed, but are very careful about it. They do not chase estrus does cross-country, exposing themselves to human predators. Instead they drive estrus does into thick cover and breed them there.


I agree and concur. Like the old joke about the old bull and young bull, lookin' at the herd of cows. laugh


you missed the "sterile, no desire to breed " part.......


smirk I'm agreeing with BSK only. That better.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 01/11/13 12:34 PM.


"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: ridgestalker] #498888
01/11/13 12:48 PM
01/11/13 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,521
south alabama
countryjwh Offline
10 point
countryjwh  Offline
10 point
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,521
south alabama
Originally Posted By: ridgestalker
First the horns have nothing to do with it. It's the age that has allowed him to grow those horns.A 7 or 8 yr old doe is just as slick or maybe more.After a few years they understand that man isn't sitting on that white oak flat at night.Being nocturnal is what keeps em alive for the most part.After a few years they understand how the wind flows over the landscape where they live. By using the wind for bedding and moving they almost become bullet proof.It has always amazed me how a old buck will have a younger buck out in front of him seving as a scout. This is just my opinion and I don't know muck. I didn't know til this year that big bucks have little feet.Lol

That little buck has screwed me twice this year on two different bucks. I told my friends if it wasn't for the dang spike or cowhorn I'd be done with my bucks in Alabama. Hunting with the bow that other deer makes it very hard sometimes. Not 150 inch deer but mature deer.


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Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: BSK] #498948
01/11/13 01:55 PM
01/11/13 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 743
Dothan, AL
WidowMaker10 Offline
4 point
WidowMaker10  Offline
4 point
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 743
Dothan, AL
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: perchjerker
I once heard a theory that some mature bucks become sterile, they loose all desire to breed,thus remaining nocturnal and loosing all desire to fight and be dominate. This leeds to dying of old age. What say you Brian, Troy ?


No evidence of that. However, I do believe the most mature bucks are not as aggressive of breeders as the 3 1/2 and some 4 1/2s are. They breed, but are very careful about it. They do not chase estrus does cross-country, exposing themselves to human predators. Instead they drive estrus does into thick cover and breed them there.



I completely agree...when a doe is being chased by a buck she is simply advertising herself and enticing competition between bucks. She wants to know who will give her offspring the best genetics so the mature buck waits for the younger bucks to chase her through or near his safety zone, then he whoops arse and breeds.


The good Lord gave you a body that can stand most anything. Its your mind you have to convince. - Vince Lombardi
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: BSK] #499317
01/11/13 08:18 PM
01/11/13 08:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: BSK
Originally Posted By: truedouble
not smarter, just not many of em.

We get quite a few pics of mature bucks and if we have a 150 class on camera the chances of one of us seeing that buck is no less than the 120 class mature buck. In fact, over the past 5 years we've gotten pics of several that scored mid 140's up to over 160 and they were all killed.

On the flip there are two very big bodied, old mature bucks that come to mind, that we had on camera that were never seen. One was about a 100" 7 point and the other was probably around 130. The two biggest bodied bucks I've ever seen on our place.

Goes back to every buck is different, but horn size is irrelevant when it comes to their survival skills.


If we get no daylight pictures of a particular buck, no matter his age, we won't see him. If we get some daylight pictures of a buck, no matter his age, we might see him. If we get a lot of daylight pictures of a buck, no matter his age, we have a high probability of seeing him.


very, very true. One of the few things I've learned from watching hunting shows was not to spend a lot of time hunting bucks that you only have night time pictures of. Never thought about it until then, but it makes a lot of sense.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #499383
01/11/13 09:23 PM
01/11/13 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 807
NE Madison county Alabama
msudog Offline
6 point
msudog  Offline
6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 807
NE Madison county Alabama
reckon experienced does (mature survivors) better prepare fawns to ellude all predators. little ones pick it up.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #499400
01/11/13 09:37 PM
01/11/13 09:37 PM

M
Matt Brock
Unregistered
Matt Brock
Unregistered
M


About mature deer and photos. I have NEVER killed a buck, nor has anyone else where we hunt, that was only observed at night on trailcams. We have killed almost every buck we had at least one day time photo of. They have certain natures, and are all different.

We had pics of a particular buck from the time he was two until he was 5. We NEVER saw him, and only had middle of night photos of him. He was only seen one time that I am aware of, and was killed in a cutover when a guy literally walked up on top of him, and he had no choice but to jump and run.

We have had pics of other deer that were very photographic and visible at age two through their death at 4-5 years of age. Sometimes, even encountering hunters doesn't change their behavior. Deer that move in day light do just that....they move in day light regardless of the encounters. They may avoid certain areas of high pressure, but they are still day walkers. Others are simply not.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #499578
01/12/13 08:41 AM
01/12/13 08:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,236
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,236
Sylacauga, AL
Beagles solve the problem of nocturnal bucks. smile

However, it is a proven scientific fact that it is much harder for hunters to hit a 150 deer than a 100 deer.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: msudog] #499590
01/12/13 09:05 AM
01/12/13 09:05 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: msudog
reckon experienced does (mature survivors) better prepare fawns to ellude all predators. little ones pick it up.


That's a definite possibility and would make for a fascinating study. Do the offspring of does that are more nocturnal than other does disply more nocturnal behabior themselves as adults? And how much variability is there in the results? Of course, there is always the possibility the behavior is not learned but a genetic predisposition. But there are ways to test for that.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #499598
01/12/13 09:18 AM
01/12/13 09:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,577
Grays Creek, NC
bigcountry692001 Offline
14 point
bigcountry692001  Offline
14 point
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,577
Grays Creek, NC
Good post this was with reading


"You cant manage a deer herd with acorns."

-Dr. Craig Harper

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: ] #499626
01/12/13 09:43 AM
01/12/13 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
bigt Offline
14 point
bigt  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
Originally Posted By: Matt Brock
About mature deer and photos. I have NEVER killed a buck, nor has anyone else where we hunt, that was only observed at night on trailcams. We have killed almost every buck we had at least one day time photo of. They have certain natures, and are all different.


Same thing here....Night time pics of big bucks are nice, but I do not get excited till I get a daytime picture of one.


Life is too short to be small !!

http://crshuntingclub.webs.com/
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: bigt] #499718
01/12/13 12:10 PM
01/12/13 12:10 PM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
B
BSK Offline
12 point
BSK  Offline
12 point
B
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,969
Nashville, TN
Originally Posted By: bigt
Originally Posted By: Matt Brock
About mature deer and photos. I have NEVER killed a buck, nor has anyone else where we hunt, that was only observed at night on trailcams. We have killed almost every buck we had at least one day time photo of. They have certain natures, and are all different.


Same thing here....Night time pics of big bucks are nice, but I do not get excited till I get a daytime picture of one.


We have had a few bucks on my property, photographed from 2 1/2 until disappearance in older age, that were never photographed in daylight. Never. And that's hundreds upon hundreds of pictures of those buck over their lifetimes. But I'm not saying any deer is totally nocturnal. I seriously doubt any deer lays up all day waiting for nightfall to move. We just don't crawl back into our thick sanctuaries to place trail-cameras (they are sanctuaries for a reason). However, if we did, I bet we could get daylight pictures of these bucks. we simply can't get daylight pictures--and I doubt these bucks move much--outside of very thick cover in daylight. In essence, these "nocturnal" bucks don't visit food plots, move through bottlenecks, or visit communal scapes in daylight.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #499721
01/12/13 12:12 PM
01/12/13 12:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 38
winstonbucks1 Offline
spike
winstonbucks1  Offline
spike
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 38
What makes these deer different is when they reach an older age they don't bed or stay around other deer. They stay tucked away in areas by themselves and don't have any interaction with deer or humans. They only move at night and they even walk different trails from the other deer. The rut is the only time you will see a true mature deer other then bow season. The deer are not scared, in fact you have probably walked by one and never knew it while in the woods. I think as they age they learn as do humans of what is a threat and when things around them change or are different. For instance, if you hang a climber that deer will avoid that area until he is used to seeing it there. They have a better sense of hearing and smell. They are basically just what they are called a mature deer. The difference in a 2.5 year old deer vs a 5.5 deer is like a 5 year old boy vs a 25 year old boy. Their life span is so short their brain matures at a much faster rate. My 0.02


Black smoke don't mean it's broke
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #499742
01/12/13 12:58 PM
01/12/13 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,435
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 16,435
Elmore County
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Beagles solve the problem of nocturnal bucks. smile



lol,,, not always , ive seen dogs run right by bedded bucks . i've seen a few the dogs left behind for me to jump and kill .

where doe pop are high it's best to run a place twice if only does are seen on the drive .

you wanna killed those big boys that never move ,,,,,, do man drives with 3 or 4 guys .

Last edited by Frankie; 01/12/13 01:00 PM.
Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: Garbo] #505133
01/17/13 06:46 AM
01/17/13 06:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
Gulf Coast
G
Garbo Offline OP
4 point
Garbo  Offline OP
4 point
G
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 286
Gulf Coast
Cool Read.

I kinda see "Scared", "Smart" and "Wary" as different words to express the same meaning..more or less a technicality.

Buck or Doe the point is the same. Some deer are born, or for some reason more "Wary" than others. Some does will stand and blow at you when they get a wind of your scent and others will back out never letting you know they are there. It doesn't seem to be related to age as much as the character of the deer.

That "Wary" Character is what it would seem allow certain bucks to grow old and grow larger than average antlers.

Re: What Makes a 150+ Buck Different? [Re: winstonbucks1] #505868
01/17/13 08:12 PM
01/17/13 08:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 693
Morgan co.
30 T/C Offline
4 point
30 T/C  Offline
4 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 693
Morgan co.
Originally Posted By: winstonbucks1
What makes these deer different is when they reach an older age they don't bed or stay around other deer. They stay tucked away in areas by themselves and don't have any interaction with deer or humans. They only move at night and they even walk different trails from the other deer. The rut is the only time you will see a true mature deer other then bow season. The deer are not scared, in fact you have probably walked by one and never knew it while in the woods. I think as they age they learn as do humans of what is a threat and when things around them change or are different. For instance, if you hang a climber that deer will avoid that area until he is used to seeing it there. They have a better sense of hearing and smell. They are basically just what they are called a mature deer. The difference in a 2.5 year old deer vs a 5.5 deer is like a 5 year old boy vs a 25 year old boy. Their life span is so short their brain matures at a much faster rate. My 0.02


Yeah I believe the answer is like real estate: LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION. Their sanctuaries are just better.

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