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Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435227
10/29/12 04:49 AM
10/29/12 04:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,211
North Alabama
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Wiley Coyote Offline
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North Alabama
Originally Posted By: Rickybobby
Ok I forgot to mention it really wet out here. So dozer or 4wheel loader?


Low ground pressure dozer


I firmly believe that a double gallows should be constructed on the East Lawn of The White House. Politicians who willfully and shamelessly violate their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America should be swiftly tried and, upon conviction, publicly hanged at sunup the day after conviction. If multiple convicts are to be hanged they can choose with whom to share the gallows or names shall be drawn from the hangman's hat to be hanged 2 at a time.




NRA Life Member
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435371
10/29/12 09:22 AM
10/29/12 09:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,484
Bham
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Dallas County Offline
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Bham
Your situation is a little different than some. You have a relatively small amount of material to move. We always calculate 100 yards as the longest distance a dozer can effectively push material....and then we use a minimum of a D8T and most likely a D10. Keep in mind you will be burning 10-12 gallons an hour with a loader or dozer with that kind of push and half of your trips are unproductive. You will be lucky to get 20 yds an hour with a D6. So, you are going to take at least 10 days of pushing at 10 hour days. Thats two weeks rental and 1000 gallons of fuel.

Now, if you can find someone with a 25cy Mud Truck(aka Articulated Truck) that will rent or operate it to you for a day or two, you could probably keep your excavator one more day and move it all in in two days. You will still need to spread it out.

But, if you run the numbers, I think you come out better with a Mud Truck. And it won't get stuck very easily. I have a spreadsheet I can send you with all the numbers if you want to see it.


not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids

Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435589
10/29/12 02:06 PM
10/29/12 02:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
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Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!! Wow so it sounds like I have a mess on my hands. The largest dozer I can get my hands on is a 115hp. The largest loader I can get is an L50 w/ a 5yd bucket. If I can make a trip in 4 min, can do it in roughly 24 hrs. The excavator went back 2 weeks ago. I like the idea of a mud truck but not sure where to find one


At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435651
10/29/12 03:20 PM
10/29/12 03:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Boxes Cove
Sell the dirt, let someone else worry about loading and hauling it and make some $ at the same time.
Won't get stuck for sure that way. smile


Last edited by 2Dogs; 10/29/12 03:30 PM.


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Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435659
10/29/12 03:30 PM
10/29/12 03:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,539
orange beach alabama
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fairwater Offline
10 point
fairwater  Offline
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Posts: 2,539
orange beach alabama
Have you ruled out a shovel and wheel barrel?


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Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435669
10/29/12 03:49 PM
10/29/12 03:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,879
Monroe County, AL
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deadeye Offline
14 point
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Posts: 7,879
Monroe County, AL
do you HAVE to move it - just smooth it out and leave it where it is


A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams

He alone is educated who has learned the lessons of open-mindedness

Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435676
10/29/12 04:00 PM
10/29/12 04:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
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Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Tom, I run the shovel and you get the wheelbarrow

And yes I have to move it

Last edited by Rickybobby; 10/29/12 04:01 PM.

At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435712
10/29/12 04:59 PM
10/29/12 04:59 PM
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Posts: 10,484
Bham
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Dallas County Offline
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Bham
Is that all the dirt shown in the pic? If so, to me it only looks like less than 1,000 CY, more like 600-700.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, that loader you are referencing would only handle a 2 CY or less bucket. A Cat 992 which is one of the largest wheel loaders on the market has a +/- 10 CY bucket and it could carry the Volvo L50 in it's bucket.

If it was me I would try to push the dirt nearby and try to use it to enhance you new pond features OR, just make your dam 2-3 feet higher. Islands and peninsulas are great pond features.Then you can just rent a dozer or do it a little (real) at a time.


not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids

Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435810
10/29/12 06:58 PM
10/29/12 06:58 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
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timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
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PDL, Fl
Either a loader or a articulated dump truck if it is wet, but if it is very wet it is going to tear the haul road all to pieces. You have a mess. LONG way to push that much dirt with a dozer.

Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #435985
10/29/12 09:31 PM
10/29/12 09:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
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Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
That pile is over 40ft deep, 75ft wide and 15ft tall in places. I dug a pond that was 50'x75'x10' with another 8x25x6 tail dug in it. If you just do the math it's almost 1500 of raw compacted dirt.
Not sure if your callin' my wife fat or what!!

I dug the pond to get the dirt. In the pic the red outline is where it needs to go. Its low area and is less than .75acre that needs to come up 18". The black X's is where the dirt is now. I want to have a general slope to my west property line. Its a maximum of 100yds. I will tell you that the 70k# excavator would sink up a little bit if you played around on it to much. Im hoping that the pond will dry up the property some.



At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436003
10/29/12 10:09 PM
10/29/12 10:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,159
Morgan county
Seth86 Offline
8 point
Seth86  Offline
8 point
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Posts: 2,159
Morgan county
Where'd you move to Bobby?


Sometimes, it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436008
10/29/12 10:15 PM
10/29/12 10:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
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Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Over off of Stucki. Come over and look at the mess for yourself


At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436017
10/29/12 10:24 PM
10/29/12 10:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,159
Morgan county
Seth86 Offline
8 point
Seth86  Offline
8 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,159
Morgan county
As long as I can play on that excavator for a bit!


Sometimes, it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Dallas County] #436067
10/29/12 11:56 PM
10/29/12 11:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Originally Posted By: Dallas County
Your situation is a little different than some. You have a relatively small amount of material to move. We always calculate 100 yards as the longest distance a dozer can effectively push material....and then we use a minimum of a D8T and most likely a D10. Keep in mind you will be burning 10-12 gallons an hour with a loader or dozer with that kind of push and half of your trips are unproductive. You will be lucky to get 20 yds an hour with a D6. So, you are going to take at least 10 days of pushing at 10 hour it.


That's 15 yds an hour. Kinda thought a 200hp dozer could move more than that.I know that 350 excacvstor could move a minimum of 40 yds an hr with no problem (3.5yd bucket, 1 trip every 5min, 12 trips an hr@6gph)

Sorry Dallas I know I don't have much experience in this matter but the numbers don't add up


At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436178
10/30/12 08:42 AM
10/30/12 08:42 AM
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Posts: 10,484
Bham
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Bham
I'm just using historical data that we have compiled over the last 40 years, plus published data from Cat, Deere etc. Here's my reasoning:
1) No offense, but most people not in the earth moving business make some assumptions that are not realistic. For example, without seeing your pond, I would assume that it is not cut out like a swimming pool where it is 10' all the way up to the shore line. If it slopes to 10' you are going to have substantially less material.
2) The stockpile will look a lot bigger than the excavated quantity due to swell. Most people don't figure swell but it will effect your every move once it's excavated. Figure swell to add 20% to your quantities, times, loads etc.
3) Folks tend to way overestimate the machines capacity based on what the manufacturer states. A D6 R model with 185 hp is a big D6. Your 200hp assumption is most likely a D7 or D8 equivalent older machine. The new D6 T is 200 hp, but you likely are not going to find one of those to rent and it's a monster.
4)If the dozer you are looking at has a rated blade capacity of 3 cy, you can figure you will push at most 2 cy (at 300') all the way to the end and that's with an experienced operator that knows how to "slot" push very, very well. Two machines "hogging" can get about 80% of both blades rated capacity.
4) To accomplish the above capacities, you will have to load up the blade and push very slow (1st or 2nd gear)which is going to double or triple the published speed/time (as in reducing) of the machine during the push leg.
5) A machine under this load is going to double the published fuel consumption.
6) Wet soil being pushed on top of wet soil adds inefficiency to your push. Wet soil is heavy, and it adds friction and causes the tracks to slip. If the tracks slip once every minute, you add considerable time.

So, for a 300' push I used these assumptions:
2cy per push
.5 minutes to position (15 seconds on each end )
5 minutes to push & spread
2 minutes to return
= +/- 7 min roundtrip
Add 20% for swell & spillage
Add 10% (at least) for operator efficiency
Add 5% loss production (very conservative)time to stop & pee or answer the phone, clean the tracks etc (3 min per hour)
Now you are up to 10 minutes per trip average
6 trips at 2 cy = 12 cy per hr
= 150 hours at 1800 cy

Ok, let's say you are the best operator in the world, you find a D6-T or D7 and you cut the time in half (faster than the rated empty speeds), don't spill a grain and never quit for the entire 60 minutes-10 hours a day all week long. And you have some type of rare soil that doesn't swell.
5 minutes round trip
3 cy per trip
12 trips per hour = 36 cy per hour
That's 50 hours at 1,800 cy total.

You are probably somewhere in between. Hopefully you mis-estimated your volumes. Again, I have a spreadsheet where you can plug in your own assumptions if you'd like it.

I'm not arguing at all, just trying to help. It's human nature to want to look at best case scenarios and that's just not real life. Too much historical data and experience out there to prove it otherwise. I'll be happy to help with anything you need.


not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids

Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436356
10/30/12 01:07 PM
10/30/12 01:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Rickybobby Offline OP
8 point
Rickybobby  Offline OP
8 point
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,319
Orange Beach, Al
Now that's what I call informative information! Thanks Dallas. The pond is actually not sloped on any side but the neighbors property line.

I learned very quickly with the excavator that I am not the best operator in the world but I can hire a very good one for about $20hr.

Yes, unfortunately, I always look at the best case scenario. I think we're gonna try a 4 wheel loader to see how it does. I'm not horribly worried about time just a piece of equipment that does the job with a decent fuel/earth ratio.


At times my ambition far exceeds my talent.
Re: Heavy Equipment Suggestion [Re: Rickybobby] #436365
10/30/12 01:21 PM
10/30/12 01:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,401
Mobile Alabama
TChunter Offline
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Mobile Alabama
There is only once correct answer:











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