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17 registered members (Geezer, CouchNapper, jake5050, Camden86, Gizmo76, Frankie, Kemosabe, Mulcher, Tree Dweller, BCLC, Duck, TexasHuntress, BRP549, OutdoorsAL, 3 invisible),
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Key:
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: Frankie]
#4185059
08/23/24 08:20 PM
08/23/24 08:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248
South Alabama
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Gobbler,,, I doubt after they spend 2 or 3 years of doing this they find out more than "you" already know . We'll see . Well, I encouraged funding it, so I am for a definitive answer to what you already "know". For instance, I know if I feed in a trough feeder, I will see a lot of coons there. What neither you nor I know is does the population increase or is there simply a "draw" from surrounding properties to an easy food source. If there is an increase in the predator population, at what feeder density does it start to occur? If there is a population increase does it depend on the season feeding occurs? Is there a difference in nest and/or poult survival on fed/unfed sites and, if there is, does it depend on feeding density? What is the rate of consumption of aflatoxin tainted corn at feeders by sex-age class and time of year? Anyone can speculate in these answers but no-one can tell me definitively......because there has been NO study to look at it. This study also proposes to monitor gobbling on these sites to see if there are differences and in following years, the study would trap predators to see how that would affect nest and poult survival. On this, again, I assume I know but a solid study would prove my speculation.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185086
08/23/24 09:00 PM
08/23/24 09:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793
Tuscaloosa Co.
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I hope they also monitor crop fields, ie. corn fields. Do they act the same as feeding during season only or more like year round feeding or no correlation?
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185128
08/23/24 11:27 PM
08/23/24 11:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052
Elmore County
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gobbler , adding a food source will help/hurt different critters , all in how you look at it .
i got no problem with funding the study or doing it . it'll give data to point at on paper .
i figure some collage kids will do the leg work and write about it and get a grade , its all good .
Last edited by Frankie; 08/23/24 11:32 PM.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: N2TRKYS]
#4185132
08/23/24 11:34 PM
08/23/24 11:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052
Elmore County
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I hope they also monitor crop fields, ie. corn fields. Do they act the same as feeding during season only or more like year round feeding or no correlation? be ok with me if they broke it up in different studies . narrow the focus might get better data .
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185620
08/24/24 09:29 PM
08/24/24 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372
Awbarn, AL
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I wonder how they're going to come up with an amount of corn to feed per square mile? ......I would think that would have pretty significant impacts.....Are we going to dispense 1 ton of corn per square mile during deer season or 10 tons??.....I wonder what the average feeding rate is that's occurring amongst hunters?.....This is basically going to determine how much we're "fattening them up" which should impact reproductive rates
Last edited by CNC; 08/24/24 09:31 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185663
08/24/24 11:55 PM
08/24/24 11:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052 Elmore County
Frankie
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,052
Elmore County
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I wonder how they're going to come up with an amount of corn to feed per square mile? ......I would think that would have pretty significant impacts.....Are we going to dispense 1 ton of corn per square mile during deer season or 10 tons??.....I wonder what the average feeding rate is that's occurring amongst hunters?.....This is basically going to determine how much we're "fattening them up" which should impact reproductive rates nope , wont work that way . difference in , what affect it is having and what affect it could have . might be better to research a place under normal feeding during a year(s) then remove all feeding see what happens . or , feed in a place that has never had feed further they get away from what is normal the screwed up the research will be . its needs to be done in a way that does not guarantee a out come . if that makes scenes . lol
Last edited by Frankie; 08/24/24 11:57 PM.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185725
08/25/24 07:57 AM
08/25/24 07:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,197 Mobile, AL
Pwyse
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 5,197
Mobile, AL
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I wonder how they're going to come up with an amount of corn to feed per square mile? ......I would think that would have pretty significant impacts.....Are we going to dispense 1 ton of corn per square mile during deer season or 10 tons??.....I wonder what the average feeding rate is that's occurring amongst hunters?.....This is basically going to determine how much we're "fattening them up" which should impact reproductive rates I don't know about other clubs, but I would think 1 ton a year would be insignificant. Our club feeds WAY more than that.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185734
08/25/24 08:19 AM
08/25/24 08:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,738 Elmore County
treemydog
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,738
Elmore County
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The real question will follow the research. IF it's determined that the "corning scenario" we currently are under does negatively impact turkey populations - for whatever reason, is the wild turkey going to be able to put the brakes on the baiting industry and special interests? Will the political and economic backing baiting has now bow to benefit the 2nd favorite hunted species in the state?
That will be a study all to itself...
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: Frankie]
#4185768
08/25/24 09:55 AM
08/25/24 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372
Awbarn, AL
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nope , wont work that way . difference in , what affect it is having and what affect it could have . might be better to research a place under normal feeding during a year(s) then remove all feeding see what happens . or , feed in a place that has never had feed
further they get away from what is normal the screwed up the research will be . its needs to be done in a way that does not guarantee a out come .
if that makes scenes . lol
That's the question........How much are we going to call "normal"??
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: treemydog]
#4185827
08/25/24 01:09 PM
08/25/24 01:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,307 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,307
Sylacauga, AL
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The real question will follow the research. IF it's determined that the "corning scenario" we currently are under does negatively impact turkey populations - for whatever reason, is the wild turkey going to be able to put the brakes on the baiting industry and special interests? Will the political and economic backing baiting has now bow to benefit the 2nd favorite hunted species in the state?
That will be a study all to itself... And that explains why the AL dcnr would not fund a project like this. There are some questions they don't want anyone to ask.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185832
08/25/24 01:20 PM
08/25/24 01:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248
South Alabama
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I wonder how they're going to come up with an amount of corn to feed per square mile? ......I would think that would have pretty significant impacts.....Are we going to dispense 1 ton of corn per square mile during deer season or 10 tons??.....I wonder what the average feeding rate is that's occurring amongst hunters?.....This is basically going to determine how much we're "fattening them up" which should impact reproductive rates They will be using varying feeder densities (from 1/25 - 1/100 ac) and feed 50 lb corn/feeder/week in each. So at a rate of one feeder/25 acres and 50 lb/week it would equate to .64 tons/week/sq mile. A survey in south Carolina indicated that across the state, an average of 350 lb/week/sq mile was occurring during winter.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: treemydog]
#4185834
08/25/24 01:25 PM
08/25/24 01:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248
South Alabama
|
The real question will follow the research. IF it's determined that the "corning scenario" we currently are under does negatively impact turkey populations - for whatever reason, is the wild turkey going to be able to put the brakes on the baiting industry and special interests? Will the political and economic backing baiting has now bow to benefit the 2nd favorite hunted species in the state?
That will be a study all to itself... That is the double edged sword of research. Do the research so the information is known. Let those who "make the rules" decide how to use it. You might see some researchers lobbying for things like season changes or lower limits for instance based on their research. A good research scientist just collects the data and publishes it. Thats it!
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: CNC]
#4185840
08/25/24 01:35 PM
08/25/24 01:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793
Tuscaloosa Co.
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If nest survival and hatch rate percentages have been roughly the same for years, then what do they think they’re gonna prove/disprove with this study? Seems like the study from poult to adulthood survival will be more beneficial. Can’t wait for that one to complete and the info dispensed.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: gobbler]
#4185845
08/25/24 01:44 PM
08/25/24 01:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,738 Elmore County
treemydog
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,738
Elmore County
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The real question will follow the research. IF it's determined that the "corning scenario" we currently are under does negatively impact turkey populations - for whatever reason, is the wild turkey going to be able to put the brakes on the baiting industry and special interests? Will the political and economic backing baiting has now bow to benefit the 2nd favorite hunted species in the state?
That will be a study all to itself... That is the double edged sword of research. Do the research so the information is known. Let those who "make the rules" decide how to use it. You might see some researchers lobbying for things like season changes or lower limits for instance based on their research. A good research scientist just collects the data and publishes it. Thats it! Agreed
You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle Dixie?
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: N2TRKYS]
#4185853
08/25/24 02:24 PM
08/25/24 02:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,248
South Alabama
|
If nest survival and hatch rate percentages have been roughly the same for years, then what do they think they’re gonna prove/disprove with this study? Seems like the study from poult to adulthood survival will be more beneficial. Can’t wait for that one to complete and the info dispensed. We don't know if nest survival and hatch rates in alabama have been the same since there hasn't been any studies in AL on that for years. They can get a handle on whether feeding affects these factors while finding out what the baseline nest and brood survival is. I do agree that knowing what goes on between hatching and inclusion into the adult population would be HUGE.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: gobbler]
#4185858
08/25/24 02:35 PM
08/25/24 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372 Awbarn, AL
CNC
OP
Dances With Weeds
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OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,372
Awbarn, AL
|
I wonder how they're going to come up with an amount of corn to feed per square mile? ......I would think that would have pretty significant impacts.....Are we going to dispense 1 ton of corn per square mile during deer season or 10 tons??.....I wonder what the average feeding rate is that's occurring amongst hunters?.....This is basically going to determine how much we're "fattening them up" which should impact reproductive rates They will be using varying feeder densities (from 1/25 - 1/100 ac) and feed 50 lb corn/feeder/week in each. So at a rate of one feeder/25 acres and 50 lb/week it would equate to .64 tons/week/sq mile. A survey in south Carolina indicated that across the state, an average of 350 lb/week/sq mile was occurring during winter. Would probably need to conduct the experiments on properties with average deer density as well.....I could see the data being skewed if it were conducted on super high density quail plantation land and that info used to represent everyone else...... The higher the deer population the less the coons will get....and vice versa
Last edited by CNC; 08/25/24 02:37 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: Frankie]
#4185915
08/25/24 05:41 PM
08/25/24 05:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793
Tuscaloosa Co.
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Course I thinned out the coons during squirrel season. And more had taken their place from surrounding properties by the time nesting started.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Research to come......
[Re: gobbler]
#4185918
08/25/24 05:44 PM
08/25/24 05:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,793
Tuscaloosa Co.
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If nest survival and hatch rate percentages have been roughly the same for years, then what do they think they’re gonna prove/disprove with this study? Seems like the study from poult to adulthood survival will be more beneficial. Can’t wait for that one to complete and the info dispensed. We don't know if nest survival and hatch rates in alabama have been the same since there hasn't been any studies in AL on that for years. They can get a handle on whether feeding affects these factors while finding out what the baseline nest and brood survival is. I do agree that knowing what goes on between hatching and inclusion into the adult population would be HUGE. I heard, I believe on the Turkey Science podcast, them talking about how the rates haven’t changed over time. They were referencing more recent studies. My have been referencing studies in adjacent states.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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