Well I thought folks had it set up to introduce some new rules for this year that allowed trackers to do what we do without all the fuss but that seems to have fallen through I guess……What do we need to do to get these passed and put into place?

Imo , you should be able to track a deer with permission across any land and kill the deer if need be .
DAY or NIGHT

That seems to be the consensus amongst most everyone……We have the new guidelines drawn up that allows for such and I thought things were moving forward but now nothing is happening…..I was really hoping they were going to be put in place before this next season.

you need to STFU before Montgomery sticks its nose in and passes rules no one likes.

I have no problem with the day or night, but to track across other peoples property will be your roadblock. That will not happen without some major court challenge.

it will never be legal to track across private property w/o permission.

I think you’re being fairly liberal with “most everyone”. if you were to take a poll to see if a tracker could go across someone’s personal property at any time they so chose for a deer I seriously doubt most everyone would be in agreement. Talk about a complete cluster and some liability.

You come across my land without permission, there’s gonna be issues.

You get in touch with me and tell me the situation, I’ll never tell you no.

EXACTLY

He has to deal with that now . Just ask permission.

I would not be for a law forcing a land owner to allow it

I agree, be best to just hush about it and track with permission during legal hunting hours .

Coyotes might ruin the cape but getting the antlers is almost a sure thing .

I've been telling folks this in the tracking community for quite some time. They want to get laws passed to "protect" the trucking world. I laugh and say keep on they will make a dollar if they can.

This. I'll even come help if I'm able to.

But, being on my land without my permission is 100% trespassing.

Maybe some of y'all didnt read what was written......It says WITH permission........Anyways, the guidelines that folks came up with that were supposed to be passed allowed trackers to legally track and dispatch deer at night. It also distinguished trackers from dog hunters.....Maybe y'all have forgotten but there's a handful of folks trying to throw us under the bus and get folks in trouble

Or it could have been edited to say that. Just saying.

Something DOES need to be done…….It pisses me off that Eddie Maxwell reported me and tried to get me in trouble but he is correct in that if we’re going to go out at night and dispatch deer and such we need to get rules passed that make it legal…..If not its just a matter of time before the folks crying about it cry enough that someone is prosecuted in order to make an example out of them……There’s no need for it to even come to that when the vast majority of hunters want trackers to have the ability to help recover their deer night or day. The dog hunters have already gotten it on record at a CAB meeting from the head GW that anyone baying and dispatching deer in a non-dog hunting county would be prosecuted……so there you go…… Just keep sitting back and not doing anything and they'll do it for us

Do you track in any areas that dont allow dog hunting?

Tracking a live deer is not recovering a dead deer

^^^^^This a hundred times!!!!^^^^^^

Do you mean like saying its illegal for us to dispatch live deer??.....Yeah, I don’t like that and the dog hunters association is trying their best to get folks prosecuted for it….…….

Here's the minutes from the Feb CAB meeting.......starting at the bottom of page 66

https://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/2-24-24-CAB-meeting.pdf

I actually think CNC has a point. People like Eddie Maxwell will report someone for farting if it’s not clearly articulated in the Alabama Code. I don’t know what drives them to be such antagonists. Seems like if folks are that interested in law they would have become a lawyer.

Anyway there’s a couple really nice, ethical trackers in Winston County. It would be a shame if s*it stirrers like Maxwell got it taken away from them

Dang, I read that to say that if the deer is alive and you are in a closed county, you are dog deer hunting and it was illegal. Did i read it right??

I’m one that believes if an animal is mortally wounded and is suffering that it should be put down any time day or night if the opportunity is present. I have on several occasions found deer after dark that was still alive but couldn’t get up and I dispatched the deer. I will do it every time. I think if a tracker runs into the same situation, they should put an end to the suffering as quick as possible also. That’s as far as I’m gonna go with this topic.

be honest parts of me have a hard time with things like this but other parts say ,,,, the law is the law . pure definition of hunt would make tracking dogs illegal where no dogs allowed . since they so good at making rules as they go they could change that easily .

seem like it can never be just ,,,, simple . imo , they do it that way on purpose

Yes and according to the Chief its gotta stop…..which I take to mean that folks are about to get ticketed this fall. This was supposed to be addressed after this got said in Feb but somewhere along the line either someone has dropped the ball or the powers that be are just not doing anything about it. I’ve been quiet about it since Feb because I was under the impression that it was being taken care of but apparently not.

cnc ,,, i cant understand why any one would be against it . is dog hunters doing the biggest complaining ?? im gonna take a guess and say ,,,, since they cant use dogs then trackers cant use dogs ????

You are correct

petty bs , all i can say

If you wait 4-6 hours, then start tracking and the deer is still alive, that deer has a chance to survive. Make better shots and you won't have to worry about it. Say a hunter blows a deers leg off. He beds up, the wound is non lethal. Should you be able to dispatch that deer at night? Sounds a little like night hunting to me. Use a dog to find dead deer. If he ain't dead, back out.

You can't say stuff like this on here! People would probably take better shots if they knew they couldn't just pay a tracker a couple bucks to come see if they killed it, or come kill it for them. If a Tracker kills a deer it should go against their three deer limit. They killed it. Right?

I hope you gut shoot a giant next year just for being jackass on here. I can assure you I wont be coming to help find it.

What’s funny is this same jackass that wants to get on here and just stir chit like this called me last year because he had knocked the hair off of one and wanted someone to come find it for him….. Just wanted to throw that out there since he seems to like trolling so much. As a matter of fact I think I’m gonna give your number to the other trackers in the area to put on their black list since you seem to like publicly bashing what we do so much.

Seems like CNC has his painties in a wad.

And did you come?

Nope…..I told you it didn’t sound like a lethal shot and to look around and see if you could find any evidence of a good hit other than a few pieces of hair…..you never called me back with anything else. That’s what’s funny about you getting on here now spewing bullchit…..Like I said, you don’t have to worry about it in the future either…..Keep on being a jackass and I assure you that no one will ever come out to help you.

I believe he was fishing and you swallowed the bait. Dang

Let me clarify my stance on this issue. First I believe anyone who shoots a deer should make every effort possible to recover that deer by any means necessary. Second I believe anyone should have the right to do whatever they want on their land, if you want to shoot deer at night do it, I don't care. May not think it's right, but it's your business not mine. That being said, right now under state law it's illegal to shoot deer at night for any reason. I think we have enough laws as it is and we don't need some jackass stirring up chit, to get more laws passed because he thinks it's gonna benefit HIM. If this gets be black listed by some organization so be it! If someone is turning you in for night hunting for just recovering a deer either they're an idiot, or YOUR a jackass! Just my opinion, don't have to agree, but doesn't mean I'm trolling.

No "tracker" permit to be sold right now, so no one gives a chit about your dilemma.

If you don’t won’t a full blown tracking dog I can’t see why a lab couldn’t be trained to do it. They have the nose and can be trained to do about anything. Barking bayed off a lead might be the only problem. Using a lead or a tracking collar would solve that.

Several people track with labs. Matter of fact Krystal Gainey uses labs and they Do a fine job.

For decades the Tara Wildlife bunch used black labs. They may still.

Is the dog hunting the deer? (yes or no). Some places don’t allow dog hunting for deer. So how did you answer the question? Hunting at night the rule has been around for years…..You cannot do it.

lol , i feel for yall trackers . bunch of school yards kids , if i cant do this then you cant to that .

instead of trying to help thier situation they harm others . . as i said before ,,,, petty bs .

I'm glad someone sees it for what it is Frankie......I mean damn......

as a working game warden I really didn't give much of a shitt what folks did while on a legit track. I never had any problems with trackers...ever.

i dont understand where or why there is a problem . what harm does it cause .

i think most of it is , if the big shots wont let me dog hunt then why should they be able to use tracking dogs to find their deer .

imo , thats the attitude they have . only reason i can see they be so set against it .

Well this is a double edged sword. Anyone who hunts Winston County knows you’re more likely to run into an outlaw than you are an ethical hunter. How long you think it will take those morons to be baying up deer all night claiming they’re tracking. That’s fine to me if they’re on their land but how many people have hunted next to dog hunters and had a hunt just ruined because their dogs come piling through, then they give you that BS line “dog don’t see property lines”

Stupidity at its finest. Just how many times have you ever seen a un wounded deer bay up with dogs behind it?? Never that’s when! A deer has to be wounded pretty good to turn back on dogs and be bayed up. I’m assuming you’ve never been around a tracking dogs or hunting dogs in your life. Just blame other hunters ok you not being able to kill deer, if someone don’t hunt your way, they an outlaw. Etc etc

i believe a GW or most of them will have enough sence to tell the difference between running dogs and a tracking dog ,

myself i love hunting next to dog hunters , i get to kill deer that they drive off thier land . i also understand your point too.

i have chassed dogs half the night trying to catch dogs we had lost. i dont remember a time where i could have killed a deer doing it . believe me we wasnt doing it for fun . burn up all that gas , hungry , tired , 10 , 11 o'clock getting home .

CNC: what kind of weapon(s) are you using to dispatch deer you find still alive?

Lasso and a flip flop…..you gotta use the thick ones though

we used to grab ours by the horns put out knee on their necks and stick'em . course a buddy stuck himself in the thigh one time doing it . he grab more deer than he could hold . lol.

Nm

I don’t see what the big deal is. There are a lot bigger problems in the world than tracking deer. The law is full of ambiguity. Judges, lawyers, and crooks use it everyday. Personally, I think tracking is a great tradition that does our sport more good than harm.

In all seriousness I’m just trying to be as efficient as possible when I go out on a track and minimize the risk of injury to me and the dogs…..Don’t get me wrong, I do have fun with it but I’m not trying to “play”……It takes way too much time and effort to train a good dog to get one hurt. I just got back from laying a training track that I'll run later today before dark with the younger dogs.

Michigan made it legal last year for their trackers to be able to finish deer off at night......Might be interesting to see if they've had any issues from it. People arent going to be baying up healthy deer but I could see someone poaching and trying to claim they were tracking. GW's would be able to tell the difference but I suppose it could cause potential issues with prosecution in court.

Bingo. I hope it works out for the folks who do things right

I agree this is a potential issue but we got a lot of smart folks that I think could come up with a solution if we put our heads together……This was the very reason I was willing to concede to having a “certified burn manager” class for trackers if that’s what it takes……If that would alleviate this issue for the GW’s and allows for everything to be put into place then I could concede to doing that……Michigan dealt with it by having their trackers “call in” before they go on night tracks…..I’m not sure what kind of system they have in place but again if you were to model it after the certified burn manager program they have an online system where you don’t actually have to call…..I’m sure something like that cost money but again hopefully we can find a solution…..

If it cant be put into place before this next season then maybe we can at least call the dogs off from prosecuting anyone for something that has been allowed to go on for over a decade now. I’m hoping the Chief just said some stuff off the cuff to appease the dog hunters but it sounded like he had a pretty strong opinion about it needing to stop…..I don’t know……I just hope this gets handled in the right way without it getting turned it into a clusterpuck of situation…..There’s no need for that when probably 95% of hunters in our state are ok with it and want to have trackers available to them….We are all effected not just trackers…..Dont forget there’s a hunter asking for help on the other end of every one of these tracking stories

Permits, $50 a year, and a tracking certification… that way you know your getting the real deal when you call…

And have to carry a permit and keep on a leash and have a gps track, and report before you go on a call, etc etc. more regulations. Yeah that’s what we need is more regs and fees. Hence what others have said. Keep asking and you are gonna get it. Just shut up about it.

If some of you don't stop posting this stuff you're going to get black listed by that national dog trackers association and there will never be another tracking dog to set foot on your property....EVER. and I mean it!

There has been no issue, except for the fact that the dog hunting association is trying to claim deer trackers are hunting deer in the hopes that they can restore their right to dog hunt

Maybe people should learn how to shoot. No law needed.

You've never shot one that you didnt recover??

So can regular Joe hunter track his wounded deer and kill it at night without fear of repercussions?

Lort yeah

I really doubt that the Dog Hunters Association swings much weight with Montgomery.

i dont know , seems like the ones who are the loudest are the ones that get heard . in this case maybe not but just look around at the other bs .

I agree. i think it’s stupid for hunters to compare tracking dogs to hunting dogs. Two completely different things, just like cars and trucks, both are vehicles but totally different. Just how I see it.

Which I don’t think anyone has swing In Montgomery, I think that low life pos Chuck, and that wrinkled up old worthless bitch Ivey, just do what they want and slide it under the door to pass it how they see fit. Look at the game laws we have in place now. Look how it’s changed in the last 20 years. And it will continue to get worse for the blue collar hunter, outdoors is all about money now days.

They may get heard, but the folks in charge ain't listening.

I think it’s common sense that reasonable use of tracking dogs and dispatching a mortally wounded deer should be allowed.

That being said, I don’t think it’s in your interest to try to force Montgomery to make an interpretation of existing law on this subject. If you repeatedly force it, they are going to interpret the current regulations as that activity is disallowed. I think new regulations would have to be generated in order to allow it with a strict interpretation. Which isn’t going to happen. If it were me I’d shut up about it and quietly go about my business.

Yep, CNC you better get ready to buy your tracking licenses!

Dogs gonna need to have up to date shots and collars. Lots of info on the collar, if they don’t mandate the leash law…

Only twice in 45 years gun hunting. Recovered the other 70 or 80.lost count. Lost several bowhunting but who hasn't? No dogs allowed on the properties I hunt for any reason.

We will allow neighbors to look for their deer with one of us present but only for a short time either find it or you don't. Lose blood, game.over. had one guy wanting to do a grid search through our sanctuary opening day, no dice pal game over.

So you’ve lost 2 out of 80…….which equates to a 2.5% rate of loss…..For the last few seasons we’ve been shooting around 300K deer statewide…..If we apply your rate of loss to that number then that means that there were 7500 unrecovered that someone needed help finding……The idea that people just need to shoot better and there wouldn’t be a need for tracking dogs is false. Yeah, there is definitely some bad shooting but you’re always going to have a certain margin of error occurring that’s just baked into the cake.

Wonder how many of the hypothetical 7500 were just nicked or weren't mortally wounded?

I have only had a good experience. Copper put a good one on the tailgate that was gut shot that I would not have found. I appreciate the dog handler and dogs. I also like dog hunting. I wish there were more opportunities for all and not be over regulated. Dang sure don’t need more regs. Now hush.

Most experienced trackers run about a 60% recovery rate give or take……So about 40% of calls are determined to be non-fatal or unrecoverable……Something to consider about 7500 number is that 2.5% loss is likely REALLY low compared to what’s actually occurring…..I was just using it as example to show that even at a low rate it equates to quite a few deer being unrecovered. I would imagine the real number is closer to 10% or maybe even more.

Just to give the shooting numbers a little more context…..Probably 1/3 of all the tracks I go on are for kids under the age of 16……..I recovered around dozen deer last year that were kids first deer.

No guarantee a dog would have found any of those either. We put too much time and money and effort into property to have it ruined because the neighbor didn't put in his time at the range or learn basic shot placement and tracking skills.

That’s true……statistically speaking 1 out of the 2 probably was unrecoverable……The thing about a good tracking dog is that they can give the situation a conclusion and are usually able to tell you one way or the other……There’s quite a lot of calls where people just want the peace of mind of knowing they did everything they could to recover the animal. What anyone does about their neighbor is everyone’s own personal choice……Just remember that what comes around goes around

sorry but 80 deer in 45 years aint a lot of shooting .

Big money tracking dogs. Do ya pay taxes or fill a 1099. Vet bills gas dog food gas bill gun license ammo cause most trackers put the final kill on. Then thentheredneck that can’t shoot post up pic like he did something. Ya pay taxes or no

.im starting to feel bad about the 7 ive lost , well i would have found two of those if they hadnt got into water , darn . lol

I've lost about that many myself......I gut shot a really nice one at about 200 yards following a doe a year or two before I got Otis.....Never did find him

i just find it odd just because a tracker is called the hunter is automatically a bad shot and needs to learn to shoot . now loosing 7 deer might seem bad to some but since ive killed more deer than most will in a few life times 7 aint to bad . just bad mouthing hunters with out knowing them seems a little wrong and a little quick to judge . from personal observation most who judge like that aint killed much .

Yep. I get tickled out of the guys who say this too. Obviously haven’t killed many. People are going to make mistakes. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t always attempt to give our very best effort, practice with our gear, and be prepared, but hunting scenarios are not like being at the range. I’ve killed several hundred deer, and my wounded and needed help with recovery rate with a firearm is .01%. It’s not the ones you kill that ppl remember, but you’d better believe they remember every one of the .01s. 😂

I’ve seen a handful of failure to perform as expected projectiles in my years hunting as well. Although rare, it happens.

I am pretty selective. Not a lot of shooting, just good shooting.

Yep, it seems like most of the folks passing judgement have very little experience with what they’re criticizing. I think I’m somewhere in the neighborhood of having tracked around 800 deer with dogs now….It gets a little frustrating sometimes listening to folks who have never tracked a single one tell everyone how it is or how it should be……not to mention the guys like the dog hunters who are on social media intentionally trying to distort the truth for their benefit.

I find I’m a way better shot now then when I was younger. I’m over the whole “ of I can see em I can kill em” attitude. As I get older I like them as close as possible and as easy to get to as possible. I’m gonna spit in the air and say that since I started this hunting strategy, I only remember 1 buck that I haven’t recovered. It was a low leg/brisket shot. Still bugs me today about that deer. I just rushed it and screwed it up.

I still say that good tracking dogs and handlers are the best thing to happen to deer hunting. We called on in for one of our guys guest last season. Great guy with beautiful bloodhounds and he explained everything the dogs were doing and he knew right away when the dogs ran the deer by him that the deer was not mortally wounded and called it. We had to beg him to take a donation and we made a new friend that afternoon. If I would ever need a dog and I don’t have Raven at the camp, he’ll be my first call. CNC I applaud you for helping all those people, especially the young kids. There is still a few things I don’t agree on that some trackers do, but I’m getting more understanding as the seasons go by. Also I don’t think the State should be involved in what y’all do. Anyone who tracks knows right from wrong. As with anything, the trackers should take care of the problems. Just my opinion.

I've seen that too . I had a box of Winchester 30 06 165gr pointed soft points that just exploded on impact . Throwed that box away . I've been sighting in and one fly way off over younder too . Like you said, rare but it happens .just more you do it the odds go up . Lol

Matt ,,, others might have forgotten but I sure ain't. Memory clear as a bell on my lost ones . You can do ever thing right and still lose a deer

I gut shot a huge 6 that I watched for months waiting on gun season, got stupid and shot at him with a muzzle loader instead of waiting a few more days. Didn't call a dog like an idiot and he got away. That one still sticks in my craw!!

There’s a few calls every year where crazy chit just happens…..I’ve seen one hit right behind the shoulder with a .243 and was still alive with its head up looking at us over 3 hrs later…..

I shot one with a 7mag when I was 18 right at dark. Fell down twice before getting out of the bean field. Preliminary look was tons of blood. Stopped at the woods and went to get dad and a couple of better flashlights. We picked up the blood at the edge of the woods... looked for an hour and never found that deer. That was the only deer I knew I made a good hit on with a rifle and never found. Dog probably wudda found it but this was well before folks had dog trackers on speed dial.. blood stopped 75 yards past the woodline. 7mm bullets will leave one hanging just like a 6mm will.

Did it's front end fall out from under it and it's chest nearly hit the ground when you shot?

30 years ago.. I can't remember the particulars. Best I can recall, When I dropped the rifle to look, he was in the dirt flopping. I thought he was going to die there. About 10 seconds of flopping, he gets up and runs as best he can for the woods. Drops again, then gets up and makes it to the woods and disappears off the face of the planet.

Sounds like you back-whacked him….…..This one was back-whacked twice with a 7 mag…..Killed in the same plot a few weeks later.

Good grief!! Tough lil bastage!!

You ain't kidding.. amazing at what they can live through.

Just depends on where you hit 'em.......Just like with the one in the picture back-whacks are rarely fatal/recoverable......

It funny how deceiving these pictures can be sometimes…..This one was hit nearly in the same place (top wound) and it doesn’t look bad at all….. but he was crippled up and couldn’t move right anymore. A bullet fragment must have got him in the spine or something

I found a deer for a buddy of mine last season. 7mm08 - hard quartering away shot. Only 1 lung damaged. 1.5 hours after the shot I found it, head still up. Got close and it jumped up and took 3 or 4 bounds and went back down. Maneuvered into position for a 20yd coup de grace and the job was finished.

It struck a nerve with my friend. While we were dragging, he mentioned how much that buck had suffered for that hour and a half. Moral of the story, my pal learned the importance of waiting for a better broadside shot.

Bad shots will be made and I've made some myself. These days when I take a shot I only take it when it's perfect or I let him walk. Just not serious enough to just sling and hope. I know I wouldn't want to be laying in the woods suffering for hrs. I still understand buck fever though!

Coyotes have become a PIA here lately……Its just anecdotal but it seems like they’re much more of a factor when trying to “give a deer some time” than they used to be…….I figure they’re probably making nightly runs by everyone’s feeder now and why they get on the wounded ones so quick sometimes.

CNC,,, I had to spine one years back only shot I had. I hit just a little low , he dropped in his tracks . About tens minutes later he got up running . I hit him two times and went to where he was .

Looking at his back the first shot separated the spine a little. There was clearly a hump in his back where part of his spine was higher that behind the shot. One of the damnest thing I ever saw . Once that adrenaline gets to flowing and shock set in they don't feel nothing . Why they run so far some times .

CNC. I used up a place that had Cyprus roots like that . I hated trying to deer through them after dark with no flashlight . Talk about a pain in the butt

That ain't north of the dog track is it ? Lol

No, that was down in Pike Co……..

That deer tried to hide from us in those cypress knees. He came running right by me and the hunter all messed up looking when he jumped…..I called the dog off as he came by so the hunter could finish him when he stopped. He missed him a couple times and the deer took off again just out of sight…..The way he looked we figured we’d just walk up a little ways and get another shot so I held the dog back……Well when we got up to where we thought he should be….nothing……..I start scanning around and that’s when I see him about 20 yards away laying right there in those knees with his head pinned to the ground letting us walk by him.