I was reading the July/August issue of Turkey Country the other night and ran across the harvest numbers for Alabama over the last few years and what I read shocked me.

69,000 in 2007
46,000 in 2008
36,600 in 2009

Do these numbers concern anyone else or am I worried about nothing?

I wonder how the data was compiled.

I don't remember it saying anythign about that at all. The numbers came out of the fall hunt guide. I was readign up on soem fall hen killin

I have a hard time believing that data. Just doesn't seem right.

They probably just took some numbers from the WMA reported kills and factored in some multiplier and called it that.


There doesnt seem to be any less turkeys than there were a few years ago and I am sure there arent less people hunting. Unless its in other places than I adventure.

I know you have had a decrease in the areas you hunt, but I was thinking that was in TN.

Seems like TN where they kill hens is stable and high but AL where some would protect all but 5 yr old goblers is declining (you can tell it is the off season! )

the places i hunt in AL are better today than they were 4 years ago. my TN places are another story, they have gottem worse for the last 5 years.

i'll just keep killin em until there aren't anymore and then move on to another spot i guess.

The Alabama harvest report is an "estimate" at best. More appropriately, the number is total BS. Last I heard, they got these numbers from a hunter survey which is done by mail.

The hunter survey is the only way that they can do it and I don't think it could be very accurate, but who knows. I have only hunted AL for about 5 or 6 years and it seems to be better now if anything.

Over the years I have noticed a considerable decrease in turkeys around south Wilcox county but during that same 35-40 years I have seen a good increase in and around St. Clair County.
I see a Big differece in the turkeys actions in wilcox co as well. Turkeys back in the 60s and 70s gobbled earlier in the morning an more in the afternoons. I just assume that its the increased hunting pressure.
Around my place in south wilcox you can spot a turkey or groups of turkeys in a field some 3-500 yards away and if you stop the vehicle they will run to the nearest woods. Around St. Clair co. and KY at those same distances they hardly pay one any attention.

I don't believe those numbers.

As many hunters as there are in this state, only 36,600 turkeys died last year?

Bullchit.

I'm with clem.

You don't have to wonder how they got their numbers; the report is there for all to read:

http://www.outdooralabama.com/research-m...ey%20Report.pdf

I would expect that the harvest numbers are reasonably accurate. The methods they used are no different from those used in just about any kind of scientific survey you can imagine - from political races to soil sampling. They are saying that the Percent Standard Error is 8.4%, so they don't claim that the figures are exact.

The harvest trend is down for the past 3 years, and I would think that is beyond dispute. However, it is normal for the harvest to fluctuate from year to year. Since 1984, the number of birds killed per hunter has varied from a low of .7 to a high of 1.1. We were at the lower end of the range in 2009, but it may have bounced back this past season.

The harvest depends on a lot more factors than just total population. Weather can have a huge effect on the number killed. I also notice that the harvest included only 10% jakes - other years have been much higher. That could be due to the fact that there weren't as many jakes to shoot, or it could be that hunters are choosing to kill only mature birds. Personally, I don't remember seeing many jakes in 09, but saw a bunch this past season. I also remember it being very tough to kill a turkey in 2009, even though I was around them and heard them every morning.

I got no idea if the harvest was up or down in 2010. I couldn't tell any difference in overall numbers on the places in hunt in Coosa and Perry counties, but it is a big state and few of us can have a good idea of what's happening all over it. But I did get a hunter survey for this past season, and so did deadeye, so we may skew the results upward.

We've still got plenty of turkeys.

Here in the SW corner of the State, we have lost a lot of turkey habitat.

I'll be the first to say that turkeys have truly adapted to the pine plantations. But, there is a timpe period that the area is unsuitable for turky habitat. With the revolving timber harvest that is ongoing in this area, it has served to decrease the overall turkey population.

But, that's just my observation.

Dont tell gobbler.

As I have always noted: A LOT of anything is bad for everything 5,000 acres of even-aged hardwood bottomland with nothing else will have very little of anything, as will 5,000 acres of even-aged pine plantation (especially young), as will 5,000 acres of open, burned pineywoods (OK, scratch that last example - it will have quite a bit of everything )...You get my drift

I was only joking, I do believe that statement to be true.

When they first started planting plantations in Wilcox county the turkeys in the woods surrounding the pines, at certain times of the year, would go out into them and scratch up the straw to get to the grubs and snales beneith. Small patches were like a magnet to them suckers.

I can tell you for a fact the turkey hunting in conecuh county is nothing compared to what it was 10 years ago. My turkey hunting buddy for years is a wildlife biologist and a rabid turkey hunter. When the land owners started cutting all the big timber off our place he got out. The days of standing on the camp house porch and trying to decided which gobbler you wanted go after are over. After hurricane Ivan our place was clearcut poisoned and planted in pines and now you are hard pressed to hear a gobble on a beautiful spring morning. Three years ago I got to work and kill one bird. Two years ago I didn't get to work a bird all season. This spring I got to work and kill one bird. So I agree with the survey.

Back in the 60s the old gentleman who owned the store at Possum Bend in Wilcox county and who was also a GREAT wildlife artist, painted a huge sign, with a gobbler walking through a field of stumps carrying a "roosting T pole" under his wing which he mounted atop his store. Needless to say, it cost him the paper company gasoline business.

William Harris....

If they declined last year you can't blame me.

One thing I hadn't thought about was the fact that they started bring daylight savings time in before turkey season even opens. That knocked a lot of folks out of getting to go before work, and is something that is bound to have reduced the harvest.

No question that Ivan did a whole lot of habitat destruction in the places it hit. When large areas get clearcut and replanted, its gotta reduce the turkey population. My farm was clearcut in 1977 and replanted in 1979. What made it bad was that thousands of acres around it were cut about the same time. The result was that from 1984 until 1990 there wasn't a turkey killed on our place. As the pines grew up, the turkeys came back.

This pine plantation has turkeys ALL OVER it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCQyJhtJBg

I don't think harvest numbers have much, if any, correlation to the overall population.
And 3 years worth of data does not a trend make.

What I have noticed, specifically in the last 3 years, is a tremendous rise in the number of hunters using public land.
With greater hunting pressure, the turkeys become extremely hard to kill.
I have hunted turkeys on public lands all my life, and killed a gol-dang bunch of them, but when they are harassed every day of the week they become almost unhuntable.

Couple of things that may factor into the stats. One has been mentioned earlier - the storms do not just seem to hurt the habitat, but it also seems to wipe out birds in those areas as well. Hunted a place a couple of years ago where the population really seemed decimated by tornadoes that had come through in late February.

Two... for whatever reason, the population where I've hunted the past three years has declined. I don't know that I can pin it on one factor - but the fact seems undeniable that I have less birds.

I mentioned this a few years ago, in the NW corner and surrounding areas of MS and Tn the population has declined. I've been mentioning this to my friend that's a biologist, he told me last year that he had heard the same thing from other biologist.

2 years back in TN on a place that has had numerous gobblers, well Primo's crew killed zilch.

The biologist cruise certain areas up here at certain times doing poult counts, another Trace guy counts as well, all declining.

The property i hunt, the Trace splits it right before the big bottoms going into MS. Always had big numbers of birds, now maybe a 1/3 of what we had just 10-15 years ago.

The poult count does look better this year.

bird populations cycle however we had a bigger dip than the norm

carter, I have seen the same thing you have in TN over the last 5 or 6 years. I used to be so eat up with birds that all I had to do is get up in the mornings and I would atleast call some jaeks in and most of the time at least 1 LB. I used to let them walk off if I couldn't see a good thick beard and spurs on them. Now days if it has a 6 inch beard I ground check it.

I remember when Tennessee had their first Turkey season after restocking, mostly from Missouri and for many years gobblers were aplenty and a surge of nimrods to match the turkey growth as well.

Depending on the area you hunt in Tennessee there are plenty of Vol gobblers left,but I think the turkey hunting fad has dropped somewhat and the gobblers will regenerate ,same in Alabama.When you have a good year in a hunting club this year,you'll pay for it next year.You can kill them faster than they can regenerate,that's definite!

I remember back in the early sixties in Bankhead forest,home of the original wild turkey,where they never went extinct,but did in some states, there were plenty of hunters,but there were fewer hunters in Bankhead this past year and only 23 gobblers were checked in on 96,000 prime acres.I killed a few of those 23 gobblers and know the where-bouts of several more for next year.The gobblers are still there in Bankhead Forest but don't gobble much and are weary and smart!I hope turkey hunters remain in decline (LOL) and if gobblers are hunted legally they will always be here,just like the good lord intended.

I know this much. There has been an upsurge of turkey hunters in the past 5 years. Some of them are the "Johnny come lately's" that don't go hard core, but no doubt there are at least 3x as many today as there were just a few years ago.

Dr. B

Big Jack, the turkey in that William Harris picture was carrying a sign that said "plant a tree for me." He wasn't keen on all the trees being cut, but as time has shown the turkeys like the pines too. I find them in our pines much more so than the hardwoods. Certainly diversity is the key.

I don't think there's any decline in the turkey population.

When we first started hunting our club 15 yrs ago you would see droves of 30-40 turkeys every afternoon . This past deer season I might have seen 2-3 while driving around . Whether it is from clearcutting or storm damage I'm not sure , but the one thing that we have an abundance of now is HOGS ! I believe they will be the end of hunting as we know it before long .

William, I believe that was added later. I don't recall seeing that on the picture at the time he put it up. I stopped in almost every afternoon around 1970 and watched him paint and as you know, looked at the artifacs he had recovered from the river, that he liked to show everyone. I went by one time when I had some hunting clients at Hendersons and bought a reproduction of the picture I had watched him paint some 20 or so years earlier. He framed it in a frame made from pecky cypres he had recovered from the river. It hangs over my fireplace in the den here in Pell City.
And BTW, Troy, the guy who has the little "U-pick" farm and farmers supply, on the sight that Williams house was, is his grandson, Park.

old William Harris print I rescued and framed, in my living room.


troy

Cool print.

Hmmm