Oh mercy. Come on CNC. I’m simply stating that it appears you are under the impression that the entire states deer herd is getting to a low or critically low level and it’s not sustainable. That’s not the case. There’s a LOT of deer in this state. Some areas have populations as high as they’ve likely ever been since European settlement.

My “you’re right” comments were a joke. We actually agree on more than you think. I’ve been wrong a lot. When I am. I admit it. Ask my wife.

But I will say this. We both have very valid biological concerns over the sustainability of a lengthened season in areas it shouldn’t be occurring.

should be dropping left horns because they aren't bringing anything constructive (other than a limp grammatical correction) to the discussion.

Good grief man. It’s called a joke and lightning the mood

It’s gonna be a loong off season, I can see it already

tradbow showed up out of nowhere and has declared what an expert and how serious he is about all things deer except for proper anatomical references. Seems like a pretty important item considering horns don’t shed. It isn’t a grammatical correction it’s just fact. I thought this forum liked facts.

High buck harvest

THE problem. Years ago, the Clearwater region of Idaho had a very strong population of mature bucks. The season in those days ended around Nov 20. They extended that out significantly and started allowing nonresidents to shoot two bucks a year (Unit 10A). That resulted in catastrophe and they have since corrected those mistakes but the damage is long lasting. IMO, the season should NEVER include the 2nd rut cycle. That is when the mature bucks are at their most vulnerable.

Edit: Barbour County Alabama has 5 distinct ruts. One county! How do you set season dates with that kind of mess to deal with?

CNC, there are properties in AL that have moderate annual doe harvest and very little buck harvest and the balance of sex and age ratios offers phenomenal hunting opportunities. Get outside your bubble and understand that deer densities are not low everywhere. They’re actually quite high in places. The counties I primarily work have areas with very high densities. Since buck mortality is higher than doe mortality due to the stresses of breeding and fighting, some doe harvest is absolutely necessary to continue to maintain that sex and age structure.

Whether you will ever believe it or not, I’m going to state facts again. You will not recover from the consequences of having a population heavily skewed in favor of does by not killing deer. It don’t work, won’t work, never has and never will work. The population must be brought down to a level where the bucks available can breed the does in a timely window, so they’re not coming into estrous again a month later. It’s a never ending cycle that will not correct itself if bucks are being over harvested. There’s too many stresses on a population like that for it to flourish.

As for this ridiculous extension into February that has absolutely ZERO biological justification, my concern is the same as yours, and was stated before it even came into being. Bucks are already being over harvested across large areas. This isn’t the same hunting environment of the 80s through the early 2000s. Deer populations are not expanding into areas they haven’t been for decades. They’re leveling off with what the habitat and cover can support, and what people are willing to tolerate. They’re also receiving high amounts of pressure because now that the playing field is equal for the 1 acre landowner, with a feeder and cell cam, that can kill 3 bucks (and will just because they can). High buck harvest in these areas is leading to an even worse sex ratio that’s causing more stress, longer breeding seasons and higher mortality on bucks. It’s absolutely insane. I’ve watched people over the last few days and they’re literally panic killing now. They’ve waiting until February to “fill the freezer” and they’re shooting whatever they see. Shed bucks, racked bucks, does and fawns. The additional buck harvest those 10 days add to the overall annual harvest is in the hundreds of bucks per county. Not all counties, but in some. Those are bucks that otherwise would’ve been recruited into next years breeding population. They’re not now. It’s kind of like the scenario you and I debate so much and disagree on the solution. You will not correct it until the buck harvest decreases. It’s a never ending cycle.

Good grief man. It’s called a joke and lightning the mood

It’s gonna be a loong off season, I can see it already

tradbow showed up out of nowhere and has declared what an expert and how serious he is about all things deer except for proper anatomical references. Seems like a pretty important item considering horns don’t shed. It isn’t a grammatical correction it’s just fact. I thought this forum liked facts.

I just dropped a buck off at the processor and they are being careful unloading them. They had 2 today that the horns pulled off dragging them out of the back of trucks.

They also pulled fetuses out of 2 does while I was there. According to the chart, they were 25 days old, both carryingtwins.. They pulled 2 yesterday that were estimated 61 days old. All deer were killed within easy driving distance from processor.