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Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Goatkiller] #3852353
02/03/23 01:55 PM
02/03/23 01:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,444
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,444
Right behind you
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
We are talking about symmetrical deer.

Explain to me exactly how I'm wrong:

120 inch deer = Something like 16 spread, 20 inch mains and 8 inch G2s.

This is a math. I am 100% correct. If mass is 3-3.5 you are going to score lower but 8" G2s = small deer.

If you can't shoot that you have problems that's a 3 year old deer anywhere in AL - IMO.


A 16” spread 20” beam 8” G2 is not an average 3 yr old anywhere in this state. That’s an exceptional 3 year old that has loads of potential.
I’ve got plenty of data to prove it. Average inside spread for mature bucks(those 4+) in ALL parts of AL is less than 16”. It’s actually 13.5-15” depending on location. Average beam length is 19-20” for 4+ year olds. Average B&C gross score is less than 120”. Considerably less in areas. A symmetrical 120” 4x4 is a very nice deer in AL and I know multiple ppl who have never killed one despite hunting hard and they’re not idiots. A 130” is a GREAT deer. A 140” in this state is a deer of a lifetime for most.

The deer in question is well above average. His bases are in excess of 5” and he carries it well. That buck can’t score any less than 137” no matter how I figure it, and I score a ton of bucks every year. I’ll be shocked and apologize if I’m wrong but I see a 137-142” slick 8 in those pics.

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Mbrock] #3852358
02/03/23 02:05 PM
02/03/23 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,866
North Alabama
Hevishot13 Offline
14 point
Hevishot13  Offline
14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,866
North Alabama
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
We are talking about symmetrical deer.

Explain to me exactly how I'm wrong:

120 inch deer = Something like 16 spread, 20 inch mains and 8 inch G2s.

This is a math. I am 100% correct. If mass is 3-3.5 you are going to score lower but 8" G2s = small deer.

If you can't shoot that you have problems that's a 3 year old deer anywhere in AL - IMO.


A 16” spread 20” beam 8” G2 is not an average 3 yr old anywhere in this state. That’s an exceptional 3 year old that has loads of potential.
I’ve got plenty of data to prove it. Average inside spread for mature bucks(those 4+) in ALL parts of AL is less than 16”. It’s actually 13.5-15” depending on location. Average beam length is 19-20” for 4+ year olds. Average B&C gross score is less than 120”. Considerably less in areas. A symmetrical 120” 4x4 is a very nice deer in AL and I know multiple ppl who have never killed one despite hunting hard and they’re not idiots. A 130” is a GREAT deer. A 140” in this state is a deer of a lifetime for most.

The deer in question is well above average. His bases are in excess of 5” and he carries it well. That buck can’t score any less than 137” no matter how I figure it, and I score a ton of bucks every year. I’ll be shocked and apologize if I’m wrong but I see a 137-142” slick 8 in those pics.




Yep.

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Hevishot13] #3852365
02/03/23 02:17 PM
02/03/23 02:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,299
Central Al
twaldrop4 Offline
10 point
twaldrop4  Offline
10 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,299
Central Al
Originally Posted by Hevishot13
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
We are talking about symmetrical deer.

Explain to me exactly how I'm wrong:

120 inch deer = Something like 16 spread, 20 inch mains and 8 inch G2s.

This is a math. I am 100% correct. If mass is 3-3.5 you are going to score lower but 8" G2s = small deer.

If you can't shoot that you have problems that's a 3 year old deer anywhere in AL - IMO.


A 16” spread 20” beam 8” G2 is not an average 3 yr old anywhere in this state. That’s an exceptional 3 year old that has loads of potential.
I’ve got plenty of data to prove it. Average inside spread for mature bucks(those 4+) in ALL parts of AL is less than 16”. It’s actually 13.5-15” depending on location. Average beam length is 19-20” for 4+ year olds. Average B&C gross score is less than 120”. Considerably less in areas. A symmetrical 120” 4x4 is a very nice deer in AL and I know multiple ppl who have never killed one despite hunting hard and they’re not idiots. A 130” is a GREAT deer. A 140” in this state is a deer of a lifetime for most.

The deer in question is well above average. His bases are in excess of 5” and he carries it well. That buck can’t score any less than 137” no matter how I figure it, and I score a ton of bucks every year. I’ll be shocked and apologize if I’m wrong but I see a 137-142” slick 8 in those pics.




Yep.



Facts.

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Dkhargroves] #3852381
02/03/23 02:40 PM
02/03/23 02:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,364
Satsuma
kodiak06 Offline
Booner
kodiak06  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,364
Satsuma
Originally Posted by Dkhargroves
Y'all stop looking at the "forced perception". Ignore the hunter.

Avg tailgate height is 22" on a full size truck? Somewhere in there and 6.5' wide? That deer is way over 120


Exactly, I was comparing to the truck bed height as well. Nice buck

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852382
02/03/23 02:40 PM
02/03/23 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,615
North Jefferson
R
Rockstar007 Online IMG_0051.GIF
8 point
Rockstar007  Online IMG_0051.GIF
8 point
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,615
North Jefferson
I don’t know this Hunter, but I bet he don’t give a Damn what this Deer Scores. And I wouldn’t either. Can’t eat the Horns anyway. Congratulations on a Fine Buck.

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Hevishot13] #3852385
02/03/23 02:45 PM
02/03/23 02:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,318
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,318
B'ham
Originally Posted by Hevishot13
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
We are talking about symmetrical deer.

Explain to me exactly how I'm wrong:

120 inch deer = Something like 16 spread, 20 inch mains and 8 inch G2s.

This is a math. I am 100% correct. If mass is 3-3.5 you are going to score lower but 8" G2s = small deer.

If you can't shoot that you have problems that's a 3 year old deer anywhere in AL - IMO.


A 16” spread 20” beam 8” G2 is not an average 3 yr old anywhere in this state. That’s an exceptional 3 year old that has loads of potential.
I’ve got plenty of data to prove it. Average inside spread for mature bucks(those 4+) in ALL parts of AL is less than 16”. It’s actually 13.5-15” depending on location. Average beam length is 19-20” for 4+ year olds. Average B&C gross score is less than 120”. Considerably less in areas. A symmetrical 120” 4x4 is a very nice deer in AL and I know multiple ppl who have never killed one despite hunting hard and they’re not idiots. A 130” is a GREAT deer. A 140” in this state is a deer of a lifetime for most.

The deer in question is well above average. His bases are in excess of 5” and he carries it well. That buck can’t score any less than 137” no matter how I figure it, and I score a ton of bucks every year. I’ll be shocked and apologize if I’m wrong but I see a 137-142” slick 8 in those pics.




Yep.


Share the data then. And nobody has said anything about an 3 year old averaging 120 either. The conversation is mature deer. That is not a 3 year old.

I would say you don't have the data because I don't see many deer make it to 5 yrs around here...... BUT if you do have data on deer by age send it to me. I would love to see the 5+ data because that's what is relevant to this conversation.

Deer in first picture is way over 120. Nice deer.



No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852391
02/03/23 02:49 PM
02/03/23 02:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
Pictures are not always what they seem. I’m a big ole boy and this picture make my buck look extremely large. According to this picture, it looks like my big arse could fit inside the antlers. I promise you it can’t. rofl[Linked Image]


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852401
02/03/23 03:02 PM
02/03/23 03:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4,086
Montgomery,al,usa
Davyalabama Offline
10 point
Davyalabama  Offline
10 point
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 4,086
Montgomery,al,usa
That's a good buck for Alabama, I don't care what y'all say. Some of you are acting like the woke crowd by putting everything down. There aren't many that would pass on that deer and actually be serious.


“If you do not conquer self, you will be conquered by self.” Napoleon Hill
The most difficult thing to understand during conversation is silence. Thoreau
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Davyalabama] #3852420
02/03/23 03:38 PM
02/03/23 03:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
Originally Posted by Davyalabama
That's a good buck for Alabama, I don't care what y'all say. Some of you are acting like the woke crowd by putting everything down. There aren't many that would pass on that deer and actually be serious.

I think it’s called a difference of opinion. It makes for a healthy debate. No need for name calling. However you are correct about it being a dang fine buck and I would bet better then 95% of the people on here would shoot that buck. I know I dang sure would.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852424
02/03/23 03:43 PM
02/03/23 03:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,904
Northwest Bama
R
Ridge Life Offline
14 point
Ridge Life  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,904
Northwest Bama
popcorn

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: daylate] #3852436
02/03/23 03:53 PM
02/03/23 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by daylate
Originally Posted by coach2
I look at deer and depending mass and spread….I either start at 80 or 90 and then add tine length……usually gets me pretty close…..for the mentioned deer I started at 90…… but I could easily be way off…either way it’s a very pretty deer 👍🏻

I believe that method will get you in the ballpark:
"Wimpy's Rule

Jerry Stafford of southern Illinois has killed a ton of huge bucks. His dad Wimpy has killed his share too. Both Jerry and Wimpy guide for big Illinois bucks, and when a mature buck steps out, they use Wimpy's Rule to evaluate it. The rule is to take 100 and add in the total of the tine lengths. This 100-inch figure includes inside spread, main beam length and mass measurements. As you can see, this quickly simplifies scoring a deer on the hoof. If he has three points up and they are 10, 8 and 6 inches, this total 24 inches. Adding a 4 inch brow tine makes 28 inches for one side. Double this and we have 56 inches plus 100, giving us a net score of 156 inches, a great buck.

Don't Miss: Score Your Rack

How accurate is Wimpy's Rule? You may wonder. Pretty darn accurate for their area. The only thing they change is if a buck looks a little thin, they go to 95 inches, and if he looks a little bulkier than normal they go to 105 inches.

I have taken the scores of many local bucks and developed my own formula for the southern Indiana hill region I hunt. If a buck is a good healthy 3 1/2- or 4 1/2-year-old whitetail, I use a Wimpy's rule score of 90 inches, then add in the tine lengths. Since it is so hard to see brow tines, I use an average length of 4 inches for them. I score for Pope & Young and have found by looking over my score charts that Wimpy's Rule is a very accurate way of determining net score once you determine the figure to be used for your region.

For Alabama the figure might be 80 inches, while for Canada it may be 105 inches. Take time to study several score sheets from your local hunting area and average out the main beam, inside spread and mass measurement totals and you can accurately come up with your own Wimpy's Rule figure. You may want to fine tune your system like Wimpy does by adding or subtracting 5 inches or so from this figure if a deer's rack looks thin or heavy. Try this system on your future hunting trips and I believe you will find it to be the best way of speed scoring bucks on the hoof that you've ever tried."


In the thick hardwoods up in the northeast corner, you don't have time for all that math.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: buckhunter2] #3852446
02/03/23 03:58 PM
02/03/23 03:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 35,349
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by buckhunter2
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
I have hunted all over this State from Jackson to Hale to Henry and have never hunted a piece of dirt I did not think would produce better than 120.

Now, if you want to pick at me and refute that 120 inches or less can = Mature. You ARE RIGHT. There are lots of deer that make it to 5 and never see 120. I concede that. I have a 5 year old that wouldn't score 100 that lives by the house.

My point in that comment was simply that each and every hunter in this State each and every deer season should be able to have the opportunity to kill a 120 inch deer and I stand by this statement. That is not a big deer even by Alabama standards - also IMO. If it is where you are hunting OK , but that does not change anything.


I admire your optimism but I don’t think the average mature buck in AL will hit 120”.

I’m fortunate enough to hunt several really good tracts that have produced 150”+ deer.

This year on 6 different properties I didn’t have a single buck above 130”. One tract alone has/had four 5+ yr old bucks this season.

I’ll admit that a good portion of the blame lies on those shooting the 120”+ 3yr olds. But high grading young deer aside, I still don’t think the “average AL” buck will ever make 120”.

I hunted one property right next to my house so it was super convenient to run cams all season. In 5 years I never got a single pick of a 120”+ buck on that property. Note- I personally saw a 160” 10pt two miles from that spot, so I know larger deer were in the area but they didn’t use that 60-acre tract.


Once again, location, location, location.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: marshmud991] #3852451
02/03/23 04:09 PM
02/03/23 04:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,686
Clanton
Turkey_neck Online content
Booner
Turkey_neck  Online Content
Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,686
Clanton
Originally Posted by marshmud991
Originally Posted by Davyalabama
That's a good buck for Alabama, I don't care what y'all say. Some of you are acting like the woke crowd by putting everything down. There aren't many that would pass on that deer and actually be serious.

I think it’s called a difference of opinion. It makes for a healthy debate. No need for name calling. However you are correct about it being a dang fine buck and I would bet better then 95% of the people on here would shoot that buck. I know I dang sure would.

The only reason I brought it up was because of the deception of the pic. I’ve seen a lot of deer pics that you say damn that’s a giant then you actually see the deer and it’s nowhere near as big as they made it look. It’s a great deer no matter what but that pic was made to make it look bigger. Hell last year people thought the deer Stephen killed was 120-130 because of the way he was posed it looked huge. I would have shot the piss out of the guys deer no doubt but I wouldn’t have posed it that way because it didn’t need to be apparently.


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852452
02/03/23 04:11 PM
02/03/23 04:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 11,510
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 11,510
Earth
Dang - this thread took off 🤣🤣

Marsh - that pic is awesome - makes him look well over 24 inch wide

U can take pics to easilt enhance size of a good buck - sometimes significantly


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: TDog93] #3852459
02/03/23 04:18 PM
02/03/23 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,195
USA
Originally Posted by TDog93
Dang - this thread took off 🤣🤣

Marsh - that pic is awesome - makes him look well over 24 inch wide

U can take pics to easilt enhance size of a good buck - sometimes significantly


That’s right!! I had forgot that my buddy took that picture and hadn’t seen until he sent it to me showing the joke about me being “a big one”. The buck was big but no where near as big as that picture makes him look!!


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Goatkiller] #3852483
02/03/23 04:36 PM
02/03/23 04:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,444
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,444
Right behind you
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
Originally Posted by Hevishot13
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
We are talking about symmetrical deer.

Explain to me exactly how I'm wrong:

120 inch deer = Something like 16 spread, 20 inch mains and 8 inch G2s.

This is a math. I am 100% correct. If mass is 3-3.5 you are going to score lower but 8" G2s = small deer.

If you can't shoot that you have problems that's a 3 year old deer anywhere in AL - IMO.


A 16” spread 20” beam 8” G2 is not an average 3 yr old anywhere in this state. That’s an exceptional 3 year old that has loads of potential.
I’ve got plenty of data to prove it. Average inside spread for mature bucks(those 4+) in ALL parts of AL is less than 16”. It’s actually 13.5-15” depending on location. Average beam length is 19-20” for 4+ year olds. Average B&C gross score is less than 120”. Considerably less in areas. A symmetrical 120” 4x4 is a very nice deer in AL and I know multiple ppl who have never killed one despite hunting hard and they’re not idiots. A 130” is a GREAT deer. A 140” in this state is a deer of a lifetime for most.

The deer in question is well above average. His bases are in excess of 5” and he carries it well. That buck can’t score any less than 137” no matter how I figure it, and I score a ton of bucks every year. I’ll be shocked and apologize if I’m wrong but I see a 137-142” slick 8 in those pics.




Yep.


Share the data then. And nobody has said anything about an 3 year old averaging 120 either. The conversation is mature deer. That is not a 3 year old.

I would say you don't have the data because I don't see many deer make it to 5 yrs around here...... BUT if you do have data on deer by age send it to me. I would love to see the 5+ data because that's what is relevant to this conversation.

Deer in first picture is way over 120. Nice deer.


Guess I misunderstood. You said a 16” spread, 20” beam with 8” G2s was a 3 year old anywhere in AL. Figured you were implying most 3 year olds have those measurements.

I’m not posting state data. I worked 10 years looking at deer harvest data from properties all over AL. The data should be made public when the first deer report comes out. I can confidently tell you I have not seen data from a single property in AL with average inside spreads of 16” or greater. The best I’ve seen on places killing 5+ year old deer was still under 16”. There are definitely deer killed on properties with much greater spreads, but for every deer killed with a 20” spread there’s two killed that are 12-13”.

Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852487
02/03/23 04:41 PM
02/03/23 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,870
behind my Dillon
dave260rem! Offline
Skinny’s Ex
dave260rem!  Offline
Skinny’s Ex
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,870
behind my Dillon
I'm just a goober online but that buck looks 140.


Skinny is my EX.Alcohol was involved.
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852586
02/03/23 06:04 PM
02/03/23 06:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 11,510
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 11,510
Earth
What u are saying spot on Matt from my experience - most hunters hunting bama will never see a 140 r kill one

I got a field a aint hunted in 2 months - no 140 r 130 stepped in there yet. I mainly talking southern half state for my experience
The decent cull i killed this year - 16 1/2 inch inside spread - that is very not common for me - usually not that wide and that aint super wide - just not common for me to see that! If u keep your pressure down and hunt the wind - u doing a decent job already. If land allows and u smart and u can back off stand from hunt area where u dont spook leaving - then u got an extra advantage. But none of that ensures a 130 - he got to b there first! There is a great chance i will never kill a 130 - got to show up for first time on camera first
My buddy who has dream property on river 650 acre - several shooters on cam every year - since mid 90s 130s extremely rare to catch on camera - the old 140 is a no show and he about the only one that hunts that and he hunts the wind


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852604
02/03/23 06:18 PM
02/03/23 06:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,529
Lee County
R
RCHRR Offline
14 point
RCHRR  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 7,529
Lee County
142 3/8”

Last edited by RCHRR; 02/03/23 09:15 PM.
Re: Absolute Toad of a buck [Re: Skullworks] #3852619
02/03/23 06:28 PM
02/03/23 06:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,478
Marshall County
FurFlyin Offline
Freak of Nature
FurFlyin  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 39,478
Marshall County
I have had pictures of 5+ year old deer on our farm that wouldn't break 100". I posted one on here once upon a time that had fat rolls on his sides. MBrock and BhamFred both said the deer was 6+ I had blacked out the antlers and made the black box much larger than the antlers. After everyone posted their age estimates, I posted the deer with his antlers visible. I have no idea what he scored since I never put a tape on him, but I bet he wouldn't have scored more than 65". To say a mature buck in AL will score 120"+ is wrong. It all depends on food, soil, and genetics. Heck I saw a deer killed in Beatrice one year on a school hunt, that was jawbone aged by a biologist at 3.5 years old. I was there when the jawbone was pulled, standing beside the biologist. It was a 130lb spike that had 4" long spikes with 4" bases.


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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