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Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: jwalker77] #3804860
12/05/22 09:57 PM
12/05/22 09:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,710
Awbern, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,710
Awbern, AL
Do y'all think there are any females being bred in the spring at the age of 7-8 months old????


"As to methods, there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods.”— Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: CNC] #3804983
12/06/22 07:17 AM
12/06/22 07:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17,775
blount county alabama
jwalker77 Offline OP
Pumpkin
jwalker77  Offline OP
Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17,775
blount county alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
Do y'all think there are any females being bred in the spring at the age of 7-8 months old????

Ive never seen any does that young around here having babies. Cant say its never happened but ive never seen it and i do look. Alot of times in the fall we see a big doe leading around a smaller doe and a baby. Never see the big doe and smaller doe both with a baby. We do have twins occasionally but not mich, but they always belong to the big doe. Sometimes might even be a couple big does running with a smaller one or two. I have noticed too that the groups of does dont seem to get along real good sometimes. Alot of times one group will leave the feeder when another group approaches. I just assumed they are in competition. But i have also seen a doe leave one group and go to another group and run with them. Also seen a group walk clear across a field to pick up a single doe then go right back the way they came from, i figured maybe they got separated the night before or something, that always happens in the morning if it happens. I really enjoy watching these groups of does but i have a hard time figuring out exactly why they do what they do.

Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: jwalker77] #3804990
12/06/22 07:24 AM
12/06/22 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 7,350
Earth
TDog93 Offline
14 point
TDog93  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 7,350
Earth
I hav seen chasing in March and fresh scrapes in April - not sure who was getting screwed


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: CNC] #3804998
12/06/22 07:29 AM
12/06/22 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 387
Alabama
chevydude2015 Offline
4 point
chevydude2015  Offline
4 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 387
Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
Do y'all think there are any females being bred in the spring at the age of 7-8 months old????



MSU deer lab says this is uncommon. Their bodies are designed to put resources into their own growth, not growing another fawn.

Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: jwalker77] #3805005
12/06/22 07:31 AM
12/06/22 07:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 387
Alabama
chevydude2015 Offline
4 point
chevydude2015  Offline
4 point
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 387
Alabama
An important aspect to think about when you "have too many does" is whether you're lacking bucks in the population (dying from disease or hunter's) or if your carrying capacity is maxed out? Their is an important difference between the 2 and if it is the prior then killing more does will have little effect.

Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: chevydude2015] #3805093
12/06/22 08:49 AM
12/06/22 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17,775
blount county alabama
jwalker77 Offline OP
Pumpkin
jwalker77  Offline OP
Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 17,775
blount county alabama
Originally Posted by chevydude2015
An important aspect to think about when you "have too many does" is whether you're lacking bucks in the population (dying from disease or hunter's) or if your carrying capacity is maxed out? Their is an important difference between the 2 and if it is the prior then killing more does will have little effect.

Ive asked around and nobody close by is getting many buck pics but are getting more doe pics than usual. I have some bucks that were still alive after season last year that are gone now. Thats the part that worries me. Im afraid they are dead

Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: jwalker77] #3805130
12/06/22 09:34 AM
12/06/22 09:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,662
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,662
B'ham
The mortality rate is what it is. They died of disease or someone shot them. "They" (neighbors) are going to say nobody shot "too many" bucks... but obviously that has happened. Either way they are dead. If they were hit by a car or EHD this has to be factored in as a dead deer and you have to adjust accordingly.

IMO what has happened here is that in your general vicinity the majority of the bucks have been shot. Realistically that can happen. We are talking last year, they year before and the year before that.

Every year what is getting killed are small bucks. Even if that number killed is low that is simply because you started with low numbers. There is no net gain at the end of deer season. It's just math.

Year after year you have few bucks and the ones you do have are young, save maybe one or two that has gotten lucky or remained hidden. There are always those.

What all this means... you have is a bunch of does. I say... Welcome to most properties in Alabama. IMO this is typical scenario.

If you are not seeing 3 and 4 year old bucks, someone shot them when they were 2, or at least they shot too many and now you can't replenish the stock.

This is just like raising cows in a pasture and this is not rocket surgery. It doesn't take a biology degree only common sense.

DCNR says go blast all the does and problem solved. That's stupid. Don't do it. You need the does to build back the buck population if you want to get it right. BUT this might not be in your control simply because you can't manage a small tract in isolation.

What has happened to a lot of hunters/clubs is they listened to the academic theory and went and shot up all their does.. now they don't have nearly as many deer period... that's bucks or does.



HI, I'm Goatkiller. My pronouns are "Pee / Nis". I was assigned male at birth and identify as a Lesbian.
Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: Goatkiller] #3805546
12/06/22 04:25 PM
12/06/22 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 6,218
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 6,218
Right behind you
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
This is just like raising cows in a pasture and this is not rocket surgery. It doesn't take a biology degree only common sense.

What has happened to a lot of hunters/clubs is they listened to the academic theory and went and shot up all their does.. now they don't have nearly as many deer period... that's bucks or does.


Not even remotely in the same category as raising cows. Not for one second.

What has actually happened is MISAPPLICATION of sound and scientifically tested management practices by unqualified individuals.

Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: Mbrock] #3805585
12/06/22 05:10 PM
12/06/22 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 13,242
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Booner
Frankie  Offline
Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 13,242
Elmore County
Originally Posted by Mbrock
[quote=Goatkiller]This is just like raising cows in a pasture and this is not rocket surgery. It doesn't take a biology degree only common sense.

What has happened to a lot of hunters/clubs is they listened to the academic theory and went and shot up all their does.. now they don't have nearly as many deer period... that's bucks or does.


Not even remotely in the same category as raising cows. Not for one second.

What has actually happened is MISAPPLICATION of sound and scientifically tested management practices by unqualified individuals.

If you had control of the deer and what killed them ,,, wouldn't much difference or with ant other animal including humans

And if a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his ass when he hopped

MISAPPLICATION , is the right word . Lol

Last edited by Frankie; 12/06/22 05:23 PM.
Re: Too many does, not enough bucks [Re: Mbrock] #3805800
12/06/22 07:38 PM
12/06/22 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,680
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Booner
cartervj  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,680
colbert county
Originally Posted by Mbrock
Originally Posted by jwalker77
Teacher one, im not a doe killing fan. I sat in my shooting house one evening a month or so ago, saw 30 deer. One spike. Im afraid our rut is fixin to get in a mess. I wont be killing any does. I just dont enjoy it. But i have recommended to some neighbors if theyre gona shoot 2-3 deer to eat, theres plenty of does, not plenty of bucks. Weve worked hard to get our numbers up and discouraged doe killing but i think we are in a little different situation right now. I dont particularly like it but its where we are.

That’s a problem. Not desirable.

Every time a trigger is pulled a management decision is made. EVERY time. You can not manage deer without doe harvest. It’s impossible. Buck mortality is considerably higher than doe mortality if you completely take hunting out of the equation. The rigors of rut, fighting, stress, and highway mortality takes more bucks than most people think, even in the south. Add hunting related mortality to a herd that’s skewed heavily in favor of does and you have a never ending cycle of long drawn out ruts, low buck recruitment and retention, and stressed deer. There are people who think saving does attracts bucks and that’s the way to manage deer. Well it’s not. I hate to burst so many bubbles. That’s an awful way to manage deer and quite honestly is counterproductive to having a healthier more reproductively successful population. It adds increased breeding pressure and stress to bucks and prolongs the breeding season. That type of management can actually lead to lower recruitment. But hey, I killed a big one on that herd of does. It’s worth it. 😂 Peoplr have a misconception that deer breed like cattle. Get cattle as far away from deer management as you can. They are not the same. One buck can not breed multiple does in the time frame he’s given without, often irreversible, side effects.

I joke, but really, having a population heavily weighted in favor of does is bad. It can be corrected but takes work. Jwalker, might I ask why you are not in favor of killing does? Is it because you think you’ll lower the population? Is it too much work? Requesting neighbors to take care of a problem you all share is not going to help. You need to kill some deer. And you all, as a community, need to lay off buck harvest. They are getting shot. You may not think they are, and all your neighbors may not be honest, but they’re getting shot.



I watched Marty Stoufers wild America series and one in particular followed the life of a whitetail buck from birth to death. He dies from the stress of the rut in his prime, literally wore himself out. I’ve seen a few bucks in similar shape. Laying in a creek with pure exhaustion. All they could do was to get up and make it a little ways and collapse again.

Last edited by cartervj; 12/06/22 07:39 PM.
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