Hey guys, we purchased a piece of property from Potlatch in Crenshaw Co. last year and finally found someone to select cut the timber. It is about 20 years old and has never been touched or burned. The trees are packed in pretty tight right now. Our primary objective for this property is to maximize wildlife. Income is secondary. How many trees per acre should we leave during the first thinning?

Fifth row and put on a 3-5 year burn rotation in sections. In another 5 years or so do a second thinning.

I might get a little more aggressive than a traditional 5th row thin based on your objectives. To maximize wildlife benefit you'll need more sunlight on the ground. Your site index and the quality of the standing trees would determine just how low I would take the basal area. I'd recommend getting a biologist from Quail Forever or the extension service to help develop a plan.

If you have a lot of sweetgum in the stand, just know that fire alone is not going to solve that problem. You'll need some herbicide treatments too.

For just the thinning, fifth row is fairly standard. Personally , I like an every third row. As far as meeting your management objectives, it may not be that cut and dry.

A site visit would be better for someone giving advice, though.

Based upon the 2 thin jobs that have been done on my lease, I would try to get it cut in a way you can have some north to south facing strips. Then you can plant, or bush hog them on a rotation every 3 years.

The stuff I have the biggest issue with is of course sweet gums, but just general briars. And make them cut the stumps low to the ground too.

What I wouldn't give for a skid steer and a brush cutter or mulcher for a couple days.

Every third row and burn in 2-3 year intervals.

We take out every 5th row and then thin 2 on each side for maximizing pine production and keeping the best trees. IF it was mainly for wildlife I’d do every 3rd row and at 20 years not being thinned, I’d go ahead and thin down to 100 trees per acre (based on site) and just wait on the final cut when it’s majority CNS and prices spike. Imo your window for two thinnings has passed. If it was solely for pine value, I’d leave 140-160 trees per acre (based on site).

Solid advice

5th row and thin to around 70 basal area on the first thinning for wildlife/timber. Start to manage the understory with fire and herbicide after thinning and come back in 5-6 years and thin again. You will have good habitat for a long time. We've thinned some stands three times and are still running around 50 basal area after the third thinning, basically thinning the growth every 5-6 years. Basal area is more complicated to understand but a better measure for thinning density. It uses the trees per acre and diameter of each instead of just looking at trees per acre. I know you already have a company helping with the thinning but I would be glad to meet and give you my two cents on management after the thinning.

I like a 4th row thin, and thin between the rows to get the overall basal area down to about 70 as bwhunter suggested above. Add fire soon after, and about every two years thereafter.

Depending on the size of the tract you may have a hard time getting a logger to mobilize for a 5th row thinning. If its 80 acres or more it probably won’t matter.

I like this. Given your objectives a thinning back to around 70 ba is likely best. With wildlife in mind I actually like to vary the stand between 50-80 ba so there’s diversity of openings. Include a regular fire regime and you’re good. There’s no way anyone can give you the advice you need without putting their feet on the ground at the site.

Don’t want to go all CNC on you guys (no offense CNC😂) but people put too much stock in basal area.
We have some pines growing in an old pasture and we have some growing in Alabama red dirt. You can’t treat these stands even remotely the same based on basal area alone. There’s a lot of different management thoughts and preferences out there, but just know it’s gonna be hard to get someone to thin next time unless your trees are big, because you’re not going to have any loads per acre. Just a FYI
I’d thin down then burn if you can. I wish we burned, my dad doesn’t want the liability. Good luck and at 20 years you do need to do something soon before the crowns get small.

4th row with selection. Around 80-100 tpa. Follow up in 1-2 years with mid rotation release and then burn every 2 years

Thin to 60-70BA. That is probably going to be about half of your 20 y/o trees or 250 residual trees.

Only problem with going to thin to fast is that you are putting them at risk of being wind thrown.

One thing you didn’t mention is how big your stand and surrounding tract is. If it is a big stand id even suggest some small patch clear cuts to provide some cover.

20 years old is bout too old to thin . Done too tall an will blow over . If u do thin just cut corridors an take out few bad trees for time being then thin down to a 70 basal area few years father than the road . Clearcut at 30 an start over . Growth potential is slow after 30

Quick story, we had a stand in an old cow pasture that had some trees 18” dbh at 18 years old. Basal area was 140-160, we only thinned down to 110 because most of the trees were already chipnsaw size and the land could carry it. We cleared at age 25 and got 4 loads per acre. $. We marked the first thinning, which most on here would say was not necessary too, but I’ve seen what a cutter can do who doesn’t give a shucks.
We took out every forked and pulpwood tree and spaced the trees out as we saw fit, leaving two or three great trees that grew next to each other (a lesson from Vardaman).
I’m saying this to say, nobody cares about your land like you do. Every stand takes individual consideration. Getting someone to actually come do the thinnings is getting to be the biggest problem. Just plan accordingly.

Thank you all for the info! I learned a lot from this thread! I may take some of you up on the offers to take a look at a later date. Our thinning got delayed by all the recent rain. I’ll check back in when we get it done