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Let's Discuss Predators.... #3392795
04/17/21 11:22 AM
04/17/21 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,992
Covington County
Squeaky Offline OP
12 point
Squeaky  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,992
Covington County
So after doing some extensive reading over the last several days to confirm what I already knew was a problem, I thought I would share what I have found. I hope those that are truly concerned with their turkey population will use this too educate and motivate yourself to do something to help your turkeys moving forward. I have found numerous articles based off science/research that are pointing to a major contributor to the declining turkey population. I will post a few of these articles in this thread if y'all care to to read them. Specifically the MS MDWFP article shows a 40% to 60% nest failure solely from nest predators. If I recall, Dr. Turkey said his research was showing 80% nest failure, but failed to specially identify the cause. Let's say the MS MDWFP numbers are accurate based off their research, the lowest of their numbers (40%) show's at least half at a minimum of Dr. Turkey's 80% nest failure research is due to nest predators. On the high end of MDWP numbers (60%) that accounts for nearly a 3rd of Dr. Turkey's 80% of nest failure. With that said, I am at a loss of why this isn't be shared far and wide?? From what I have read, it's not popular within the general public for starters, it's not cost/time productive and it's not effective long term. Now I don't know what y'all think, but if I can reduce the risk by any amount that is one less predator I have to worry about eating a turkey egg for that laying period. Yeah, I will have to continue my trapping and annual removal, but I don't see any negatives to doing that. As I have said, it's not easy, it's gonna take up some of your time and it's gonna cost you some money. I can tell you fro a fact it does make a difference even on a small scale. For those that aren't already trapping I encourage each of you to do something to help your turkeys moving forward as the research shows it's a significant problem. I also encourage everyone to read these links posted below if you want some true facts and not some top secret research that only a select few are privileged to see.

https://www.mdwfp.com/wildlife-hunt...blame-predators-for-poor-turkey-habitat/

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/predator/war-with-turkey-predators

https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/article/life-turkey-nest

https://www.nwtf.org/conservation/article/wild-turkeys-predators-problem


Now let's discuss habitat. I currently hunt a region of the state and property that you would be hard pressed to fill 20 log trucks with mature hardwoods on nearly 6000 acres. We do not have any hardwood to speak of. Our property is dominated by pine trees and as far as I know it has been like that for a long time. What we do have going for us is most of our timber is in the thinning stages and on a rotational burn program. The patch work burning before nesting is what makes the difference for us I suppose. We also plant clover in every single one of our food plots every year. There are some great annual varieties out now that have been strong fall and spring producers for us (Balasana Fixation & Frosty Berseem). We have chosen these varieties as our soil is very poor and it will not support the long term annual varieties through the heat of the summer. I simply find it hard to believe that pine plantations if managed properly will not support a thriving turkey population. The key words in that statement is (managed properly) as I am fully aware of what we have is not being done on a good majority of the pine plantations in our state. Actually I can name several timber companies that do not burn a percentage of their property and never have that I am aware of. That is a problem when it comes to improving habitat. So with that said, as land lessors our hands are tied when it comes to habitat improvements on a larger scale. There are things that can be done, but fire is relatively cheap when compared to the other things. I still encourage everyone to do a little project or two each year specifically tailored to helping your turkeys. There is some pretty good articles on line that can give you ideas of where to start, what to do and what not to do. Lastly if you lease or own private land reach out to the resources available and encourage your land owner to burn small sections annually. There is help available out there for these land owners if sought out. It might take you sitting down with the owner and spelling out the benefits while showing them the help that's available. It might not get you anywhere but you can at least say at the end of the day you put fourth the effort.

In closing it will be up to us individuals that lease and own private land to turn the tide. As many of us know the states current philosophy/vision has very little to due with managing the resources and wildlife. It's all about them $$$$$


"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392801
04/17/21 11:41 AM
04/17/21 11:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,312
northport
deadeye48 Online content
Booner
deadeye48  Online Content
Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,312
northport
If there is a decline in out turkey population I would definitely say that it’s direct impact of predators
I’m into my third property management for predators and in all three I’ve seen a large increase in turkeys after the third year
As you stated it takes time and money to do this and I’ll add that the benefits are worth the cost
I lived in a area where the state took over the surrounding property to make a management area
It did not take long to see the turkey population decline and predators increase
One of the worst nest predators we have now is not just coons but hogs are very hard on them


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392807
04/17/21 11:50 AM
04/17/21 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL


I don't know if any of the current research has broken any new ground on predation, but they were using similar statistics when I was at Auburn back in the 70s. I think that since the reintroduction efforts that started in the 50s we have known that most eggs don't hatch, and most poults don't survive long enough to fly. So those ideas are not new; it's always been that way and it's just normal for the wild turkey. It could be that the lack of trapping has made it worse, but I think that would be hard to prove.

I am in favor of eliminating every predator possible and have always done that, but I think it's more important to have habitat that allows them to hide from the predators. They need habitat for every stage of their development, and I think that the ideal habitat for nests and poults is what many places lack. I don't think we really know what is ideal. I wish the research would focus on understanding that, but I don't think any does. People will give you educated guesses on what is ideal, but I don't think this has been explored enough.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392813
04/17/21 12:01 PM
04/17/21 12:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,977
USA
M
marshmud991 Offline
14 point
marshmud991  Offline
14 point
M
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,977
USA
According to our neighbor who was a member of the hunting club that had our property before us, no one he knew of ever trapped anything on our place. We dang sure haven’t. I see signs of critters and the only thing we notice is we are seeing more bobcats, which we eliminated most that have been seen. Not saying predators aren’t our problem but I think it’s the smallest part of our problem. Our neighbor is always telling us about all the turkeys our place has always had and how he was the only one who ever hunted them in the old club. We saw what he was talking about the first 3-4 years we had this place. He’s in agreement with most that the loss of the big timber around us had the most impact on the population in our area.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392814
04/17/21 12:02 PM
04/17/21 12:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,609
Alabama
D
dirkdaddy Offline
10 point
dirkdaddy  Offline
10 point
D
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,609
Alabama
A pine plantation cleaned up and seeded thick in arrowleaf clover would be absolute dynamite for turkey

Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392816
04/17/21 12:05 PM
04/17/21 12:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,091
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 36,091
alabama
some turkeys will survive in marginal habitat but they will not thrive.....and marginal habitat is becoming the rule with all the habitat manipulation(read clearcuts).


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392818
04/17/21 12:08 PM
04/17/21 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,992
Covington County
Squeaky Offline OP
12 point
Squeaky  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,992
Covington County
Good points Mr. Steve!

I tried to locate recent articles that quoted the proven research. How old that research is I did not look in to that. It very well may be old news. My goal in this thread was to show it as a known issue rather than some perceived issue. I stated above I can tell those that are interested small improvements to a small property has paid dividends for me. Trapping, burning, planting and improving habitat has turned this property around for now. I had 3 mature gobblers, 5 jakes and about 20 hens this year that I know of. It had very few turkeys on it just a few years ago. The property is mostly mature swap hardwoods so I probably pulled some birds from surrounding properties along with the current turkeys producing some the past two summers.


"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life.
Comes to us at midnight very clean.
It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392840
04/17/21 01:07 PM
04/17/21 01:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,312
northport
deadeye48 Online content
Booner
deadeye48  Online Content
Booner
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 10,312
northport
PCP the predation of our turkeys is not hard to prove at all
As I said I’m into my third property managing predators and have seen a large increase In turkeys after the third year of trapping
If I were a novice at trapping I would believe what you said but since I’ve been doing this most of my life I know it works
While habitat does play a role I have to say predator management is the most important thing for turkey survival that’s within our ability to control
There isn’t much we can do about natural causes other than really just chalking it up as something beyond our control


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392841
04/17/21 01:08 PM
04/17/21 01:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862
sj22 Offline
14 point
sj22  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,862



Wish I was able to do some burns on my places but I can’t but I started trapping couple years ago, hope it’s helping. I’ve really enjoyed it and the kids enjoy it too



Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392871
04/17/21 02:16 PM
04/17/21 02:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,734
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,734
Elmore County
Ants

Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3392996
04/17/21 07:22 PM
04/17/21 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
B
Bamarich2 Offline
8 point
Bamarich2  Offline
8 point
B
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,496
Northport
Been thinking a lot about this since the Chamberlain discussion got going... is there any correlation between the decline of turkeys/increase in predators because of feeding deer more? I don't know about you guys, but at any given time on our property besides turkey season we have at least a dozen piles of corn going - most of the time it's far more than that. Conventional wisdom says the more coons/possums/etc eat corn, the less nests they disturb. But, at the same time wouldn't you also have a more concentrated amount of these animals due to the ready-made food sources. On top of those animals that eat at these corn piles, coyotes/bobcats/etc might also stick closer - knowing the corn attracts prey they eat. Obviously, feeding corn helps the deer herd... and I've thought about going to war on these types of animals around these feed areas. Say... put out a raccoon trap or two and a coyote trap around every feed station.

Last edited by Bamarich2; 04/17/21 07:24 PM.
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393033
04/17/21 08:35 PM
04/17/21 08:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
Started trapping coons about 11 months ago and coyote about 6-7 months ago on a 256 Acre lease - first 5-6 month I was just weekend trapper - now try to leave coyote traps out longer

So wet I taking break for few weeks trapping

Caught 26 coons - 6 coyote - 7 possum - 3 fox and 1 cat. Hope I have saved a few fawns and turkeys - don’t see near the coons at my feeders - I was getting 8 at a time at 3 different feeders - now 2-3 tops and some nights none

Going to try protein this summer for deer and plant more clover next year and May do Chufla

My turkeys leave bad right at start of season last 2 years - think my neighbor feeds big time during season

Deadeye and PollWoll and some others on Alldeer are excellent trappers - I still a rookie


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393063
04/17/21 09:09 PM
04/17/21 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,155
In The Stack
G
General Offline
14 point
General  Offline
14 point
G
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,155
In The Stack
Trapping is the key. Most timber leases don’t burn and won’t allow you to burn. Trap every predator you can and kill every snake you see.


"I'd rather go down the river with seven studs than with a hundred ****heads"
- Colonel Charlie Beckwith
Founder Delta Force
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393076
04/17/21 09:19 PM
04/17/21 09:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580
Clanton
Turkey_neck Offline
Booner
Turkey_neck  Offline
Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580
Clanton
Pretty much destroyed the coon/possum population around me the last 5 years. Fixing to do the same to the yotes.


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393087
04/17/21 09:36 PM
04/17/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
Coyotes are smart - a rush catching them - think
U will enjoy it turkey Neck - I like it lot bettr than coon trapping

I do it for the end result - but yote trapping actually fun - coon too but to me yote more


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393093
04/17/21 09:43 PM
04/17/21 09:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,206
Northwest Bama
R
Ridge Life Offline
14 point
Ridge Life  Offline
14 point
R
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 9,206
Northwest Bama
How y’all handle the fire ants, hawks, crows, and skunks

Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393098
04/17/21 09:49 PM
04/17/21 09:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
TDog93 Offline
Booner
TDog93  Offline
Booner
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,717
Earth
We can’t get everything - impacting what we can

Hard to b a turkey


Hunt the wind - leave it better than you found it - love your neighbor as you love your self
We need prayer for our country now more than ever
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Ridge Life] #3393099
04/17/21 09:49 PM
04/17/21 09:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580
Clanton
Turkey_neck Offline
Booner
Turkey_neck  Offline
Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,580
Clanton
Originally Posted by Ridge Life
How y’all handle the fire ants, hawks, crows, and skunks

Shoot them except ants


Would walk over a naked woman to get to a gobblin turkey!
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393109
04/17/21 10:02 PM
04/17/21 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Temix


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Let's Discuss Predators.... [Re: Squeaky] #3393151
04/18/21 12:07 AM
04/18/21 12:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,734
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,734
Elmore County
I finally read the links , I say ,,,,, ants and habitat are the main problems .

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