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Outdoor Life Article #3351998
02/14/21 04:50 PM
02/14/21 04:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352164
02/14/21 07:43 PM
02/14/21 07:43 PM
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Posts: 930
Piney Ridge
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Gobl4me Offline
6 point
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Piney Ridge
I hunt my farm two days a week. Anymore and seems like hunting declines quick. I hunt public land the other days of the week. I'm starting to think they need to rest public three days a week. At one time I didn't think you could hardly shoot them out.....but nowadays that's changed. With the sky busting fad the ducks are wild acting within a day or two of arriving.

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: Gobl4me] #3352192
02/14/21 07:56 PM
02/14/21 07:56 PM
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Posts: 8,991
Colbert County
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Teacher One Offline
14 point
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Colbert County
I have a piece of Property we call the Tucker Tract. It has a small pond on it that for some reason or another ducks love. There are always at least a hundred ducks on it. We don't duck hunt and I'd may be a place they seek refuge. They are fascinating to watch as they feed.


I can't stand a thief.
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352264
02/14/21 08:53 PM
02/14/21 08:53 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
T
TickaTicka Offline
12 point
TickaTicka  Offline
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On the X
We need weather or we won't have ducks to hunt in the south. As we've seen the past 5-6 years. We need ice, snow, the stuff we used to get every December and January and now only get in February. It doesn't matter how many days you spend a field when the ducks never leave the prairie pothole until Feb 1st.


Public Land Owner
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: TickaTicka] #3352473
02/15/21 07:35 AM
02/15/21 07:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,739
RBC, AL
D
Drake322 Offline
10 point
Drake322  Offline
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RBC, AL
Originally Posted by TickaTicka
We need weather or we won't have ducks to hunt in the south. As we've seen the past 5-6 years. We need ice, snow, the stuff we used to get every December and January and now only get in February. It doesn't matter how many days you spend a field when the ducks never leave the prairie pothole until Feb 1st.


Like I have said many times, season in the south needs to be pushed back 30 days but that will never happen. IMO.

I have a piece of Property we call the Tucker Tract. It has a small pond on it that for some reason or another ducks love. There are always at least a hundred ducks on it. We don't duck hunt and I'd may be a place they seek refuge. They are fascinating to watch as they feed.
If the pond you are talking about is a cattle farm and it has the green slime on the pond, that is why the ducks are there. They love that stuff. I have killed hundreds of ducks off ponds like this.

Last edited by Drake322; 02/15/21 07:36 AM.
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352482
02/15/21 07:55 AM
02/15/21 07:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,739
RBC, AL
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Drake322 Offline
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Damn, I just read the article. He makes a lot of sense, in some ways. I do agree that the media-TV, Youtube, Facebook have made the industry see increased hunters all for the pagentry of doing it. Many people have made millions last 10-20 years off this platform. Hell, I started watching Phil Robertson on a vhs tape. Willie just came along and capitalized on what Phil had going. My Son and I had a conversation last night about this very thing. I asked him how many millions of dollars was lost this year because there were not ducks in the east half of the US. I think a ton was but he disagreed. He said people still npught clothes, accessories, guns etc but boats sales suffered. He guided in OK for a month this year and has a pretty good pulse on market.

We used to hop from farm ponds, swamps, rivers etc to try an not shoot out a place. Does not matter now if the ducks never get here. It is real depressing to not be able to go and enjoy a hunt and actually see birds and kill a few.

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352492
02/15/21 08:05 AM
02/15/21 08:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,931
Jackson Co.
JBL Offline
8 point
JBL  Offline
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Posts: 1,931
Jackson Co.
We used to have a decent amount of ducks on our farm pond. Now we just see a couple hooded mergansers and woodies once a blue moon. And when my dad was a kid he would see tons of mallards land in the cornfields on the same property. Those days are long gone, never to be seen again. Its the same way with the fisheries I fish everywhere. There are more and more hunters and fishermen every year. And social media is fuel for the fire in so many ways. And regulations do not reflect what is happening. The trend is not good.

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: TickaTicka] #3352593
02/15/21 10:09 AM
02/15/21 10:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 180
Vestavia
Q
Quack Quack Bang Offline
3 point
Quack Quack Bang  Offline
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Posts: 180
Vestavia
Originally Posted by TickaTicka
We need weather or we won't have ducks to hunt in the south. As we've seen the past 5-6 years. We need ice, snow, the stuff we used to get every December and January and now only get in February. It doesn't matter how many days you spend a field when the ducks never leave the prairie pothole until Feb 1st.



I couldn't agree more.

I also agree with the general premise of the article. Control hunting pressure and you have more birds and thus better hunts (although fewer hunts).

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352720
02/15/21 12:03 PM
02/15/21 12:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
I contend that hunting pressure keeps them north. In WI the season ends first full week of November. If there is food and open water why go south? Go south and get a shot up. Fly back north your ok. Head south again and get shot up

Doesn’t take long to condition the birds into staying put.

Look at the beat down they take in Arkansas. Some head further south others head West.
Oklahoma and Kansas is a NEW hot spot for ducks. Imagine that. Banding recoveries have proved this to be the latest trends.

Weather is colder the further west you go. I see more snow and ice in Oklahoma and Kansas than I see in Arkansas.

Another trend I looked at last night was Wheelers Refuge numbers. The trend is very similar over the last 25 years. There is 66000 ducks counted on wheeler’s last count.

Guys at Swan say when the boats head in the ducks go sit at Wheeler. Pressure put them there.
Guys chase ducks all over pickwick. They used to rest in the middle. No more as run and gun duck shooting seems to be gaining in popularity. Layout boats are positioned then the tender boat runs ducks up.

They get zero rest.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: Quack Quack Bang] #3352746
02/15/21 12:34 PM
02/15/21 12:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
Originally Posted by Quack Quack Bang
Originally Posted by TickaTicka
We need weather or we won't have ducks to hunt in the south. As we've seen the past 5-6 years. We need ice, snow, the stuff we used to get every December and January and now only get in February. It doesn't matter how many days you spend a field when the ducks never leave the prairie pothole until Feb 1st.



I couldn't agree more.

I also agree with the general premise of the article. Control hunting pressure and you have more birds and thus better hunts (although fewer hunts).



The same applies to big game too
QDMA on one of their properties did something similar. They called it pulse hunting. No one was allowed on the property to scout or anything. Absolutely zero outside pressure. Open it for a week or 10 days and more mature bucks were taken. The upper Midwestern states kill more during their week long firearms season than we do here in our 3 month firearms season.


I don’t know the answer and won’t pretend to. We duck hunters would not have the equipment we have today without the money brought on by the popularity. It’s a double edge sword.

I’m guessing it to be a cycle like most things in life.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3352806
02/15/21 01:17 PM
02/15/21 01:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 667
Birmingham/Scottsboro
W
wk2hnt Offline
4 point
wk2hnt  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 667
Birmingham/Scottsboro
That article is a good read. I’ve been preaching for 5 years about pressure and cutting back on the season days to 40 with good splits and to it nationwide. Something has to be done it’s not all weather related

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353093
02/15/21 07:08 PM
02/15/21 07:08 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
T
TickaTicka Offline
12 point
TickaTicka  Offline
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
Originally Posted by cartervj
I contend that hunting pressure keeps them north. In WI the season ends first full week of November. If there is food and open water why go south? Go south and get a shot up. Fly back north your ok. Head south again and get shot up

Doesn’t take long to condition the birds into staying put.

Look at the beat down they take in Arkansas. Some head further south others head West.
Oklahoma and Kansas is a NEW hot spot for ducks. Imagine that. Banding recoveries have proved this to be the latest trends.

Weather is colder the further west you go. I see more snow and ice in Oklahoma and Kansas than I see in Arkansas.

Another trend I looked at last night was Wheelers Refuge numbers. The trend is very similar over the last 25 years. There is 66000 ducks counted on wheeler’s last count.

Guys at Swan say when the boats head in the ducks go sit at Wheeler. Pressure put them there.
Guys chase ducks all over pickwick. They used to rest in the middle. No more as run and gun duck shooting seems to be gaining in popularity. Layout boats are positioned then the tender boat runs ducks up.

They get zero rest.


Your theory holds some validity, except that Arkansas is selling fewer duck hunting licenses and Oklahoma and Kansas are selling more.

Also, I'm not worried about ice in Arkansas (don't get me wrong, that certainly helps) but the weather north. When my buddies in the dakotas and MN aren't able to ice fish the first week of Jan because there is no ice, guess where the ducks are? Yeah, they are there cause its warm and they are north of the pressure, seasons closed out 6 weeks ago. Guess what happens when they get snow and ice? We smash mallards for days.

I can predict based on cold temps and when the thaw starts we are going to start killing them. I've seen it happen so many times, I know the pattern. That hasn't happened for years.

Last good Jan we had 23 ice days. Piles that would make the youtubers jealous. Haven't seen ice since. And this was many years ago.


Public Land Owner
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353175
02/15/21 09:00 PM
02/15/21 09:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
That’s why I’m discussing this. Kinda wanna see where I end up with what think maybe be happening.

I have friends in Green Bay that we stay in contact with and as you mention things have changed. At the same time there is a lot of debate just how many duck hunters there are. Absolutely no doubt Alabama has increased 100 fold. The weekly duck hunter pilgrimage headed west to MS, AR and Western TN has increased significantly. When I can count 20 plus vehicles on Thursday and then Friday headed west in a 25 mile commute. That’s a lot of folks.

This year is the first time I believe since the late 90s that I didn’t buy an AR license. We were killing ducks at my buddies lease as late as 2016-17. Lost his lease cause we were killing and someone wanted the place way more. Lots of leases went that way.

Go back to the early 90s and you may recall no one really shot ducks in the upper
Midwest. They shot geese. The Canada goose was king and ducks were a nuisance to some degree. Goose hunting crapped out due to over hunting and other factors but commercial hunting really did it’s number. We have been there for some time I feel with ducks.

It’s pressure in my opinion. The duck shift west started several years back. To me it correlated with the rapid rise in AR hunters.

No doubt if everything locked up to the north ducks have to come down. 2001 was incredible. I’ve never seen anything before or since.

To me the irony is when I started in the mid 80s. The old timers saying there isn’t any ducks so they quit. Now I’m saying it. The difference however. There is way more duck hunters now and the last week of the season the skies are void of ducks at sunset.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353179
02/15/21 09:04 PM
02/15/21 09:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
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Posts: 18,776
colbert county
I’ll add one more thing. I’ve never hunted past 10 even in AR. We were usually done by 7:30 and no later than 8 if need be. But with it without our limit we left. Nowadays it’s all out day long duck hunting.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353197
02/15/21 09:24 PM
02/15/21 09:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 930
Piney Ridge
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Gobl4me Offline
6 point
Gobl4me  Offline
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Piney Ridge
More efficient farming machines/practices, Earlier maturing rice and beans, the 0 grade field. On and on in the ag world. Results in less grain left in the fields, what's left re sprouts typically, and fields are worked for next year right after harvest.

Relentless pressure

Weather not cooperating

Rest areas / flooded corn / banking ducks / white oak style operations

Spinning wing decoys slaughtering yearling ducks up north

More traveling hunters

Better hunter technology (guns/ammo/clothing/etc)

Boats / mud boats and machines that go anywhere

Skybusting and general bad practices conditioning ducks

It's a lot of different things hurting Arkansas

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353234
02/15/21 10:18 PM
02/15/21 10:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
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Posts: 18,776
colbert county


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: Gobl4me] #3353257
02/15/21 10:57 PM
02/15/21 10:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,571
Grays Creek, NC
bigcountry692001 Offline
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Grays Creek, NC
Originally Posted by Gobl4me
I hunt my farm two days a week. Anymore and seems like hunting declines quick. I hunt public land the other days of the week. I'm starting to think they need to rest public three days a week. At one time I didn't think you could hardly shoot them out.....but nowadays that's changed. With the sky busting fad the ducks are wild acting within a day or two of arriving.


I hunt public as well and I wish more hunters understood this. Fort Bragg is closed to hunting on Monday’s and Tuesday, unless specified for federal holidays. I get it, those are the only days some hunters have off and that sucks... I’ve been there. However, the woods need time to reset.


"You cant manage a deer herd with acorns."

-Dr. Craig Harper

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353310
02/16/21 04:49 AM
02/16/21 04:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,979
USA
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marshmud991 Offline
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USA
I live in what used to be the duck hunting Meca of the country. It’s was unbelievable the ducks that would winter in this area. I killed more ducks in my back yard then some people would kill in blinds in other places. People used to farm for ducks as ducks used to be food not a sport. The young farmers now can’t or don’t do that. It’s all about the dollar now. Also rice was worth lots of money back then and you could leave some in the field and still make a dang good living. Now it takes every grain you can get. Also the families hunted the farms and shared the hunts with friends. Now every field has a blind in it and the blind is leased out to these city people who will pay $40-50k for that blind. The blinds that aren’t lease by rich city people are leased by these “Outfitters” that are cashing in on the Duck Dynasty craze. You can’t blame the farmers and landowners,it helps with the cash flow. Also now every pothole or little area of open water in the marshes is leased out.
Another BIG problem here is dang near every rice field is a crawfish pond. These ponds are flooded as deep as possible and farmers scare every bird that lands in them away because they don’t want the birds eating the food planted for the crawfish.
It all comes down to there is no food for the ducks and no place for them to rest. Without those 2 most important factors duck hunting will continue to go the way of the American Bison. Weather can’t fix this problem. The migration patterns have changed and will never get back to what is used to be. It’s a sad situation that I hate seeing because I was a duck hunter and really loved it. I haven’t bought a duck stamp in probably 10yrs. I’m not wasting my time to go out there and watch the grass move and not see a duck. Like I tell everyone, I’d rather drive 6 hours to the deer camp then 6 minutes to a duck blind now. I hope I’m wrong about it not ever getting good again but it keeps getting worse every season.
One last thing, in the past every flooded field would be covered from edge to edge with ducks this time of year. You might see a few hundred ducks if you take a long afternoon drive looking at all the fields around here. Ducks are part of history now.


It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.


Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353442
02/16/21 08:54 AM
02/16/21 08:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 930
Piney Ridge
G
Gobl4me Offline
6 point
Gobl4me  Offline
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Piney Ridge
I've been hearing that about crawfish farming. Messing up the ducks south of us...... couldnt imagine that would be widespread enough to really matter but it's possible.

Re: Outdoor Life Article [Re: cartervj] #3353472
02/16/21 09:19 AM
02/16/21 09:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
cartervj Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
cartervj  Offline OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,776
colbert county
Larry spoke about that on the Express Boats series. It makes sense and made me wonder if that may be another reason birds went west.

The one glaring comment the Larry guy said

He mentioned doing a poll that if they had evidence that a high daily limit would be bad for duck populations that the duck hunters still voted for a high duck limit

That is a bi telling

He kinda was against a limit reduction as he mentioned biologically a dead duck is a dead duck. As long as the overall numbers are the same then it changes nothing. What has happened is the average per person has declined.


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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