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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3235743
10/06/20 03:50 PM
10/06/20 03:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
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Did they explain their reasoning? What makes that particular gun different from other AR pistols?
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236185
10/07/20 08:10 AM
10/07/20 08:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
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You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...
with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.
If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.
HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: GomerPyle]
#3236191
10/07/20 08:26 AM
10/07/20 08:26 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922 North AL
AU338MAG
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
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You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...
with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.
If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.
HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD
He's right you know.
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236208
10/07/20 08:46 AM
10/07/20 08:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
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It's something to do with red tape. I'd probably go with MODUX theory or something similar.
I can't wait for Biden to get elected and then we can all have some real discussion on who's turning what in first. Might get as bad as the Reagan/Bush/Clinton era.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: AU338MAG]
#3236209
10/07/20 08:50 AM
10/07/20 08:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,709 You are ignoring this user
Thread Killer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,709
You are ignoring this user
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You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...
with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.
If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.
HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD
He's right you know. He’s 100% right, but according to our ALdeer Billy Bob Bad ASS Johnnyloco all is in vein. SMDH.
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236237
10/07/20 09:40 AM
10/07/20 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
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If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR).
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: wmd]
#3236243
10/07/20 09:50 AM
10/07/20 09:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
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If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR). Most of the braces can be adjusted for length...doesn't mean they're not still a brace. And the one on that rifle is made by SB Tactical, who is probably the most popular manufacturer of braces. But that's irrelevant. The bigger issue is that the ATF originally gave them the OK to sell it as a pistol brace and said they were good to go. Then they arbitrarily came back and said "nah, nevermind...turn them in, or pay us $200, or we'll come kick your door in, shoot your golden retriever and fine you $10,000 and/or imprison you for 10yrs". THAT is the issue. The LAW is that braces on pistols are legal. The issue is that the ATF keeps "re-interpreting" their definitions periodically with no rhyme or reason so you are now a felon for owning a bumpstock or that pistol, even though you were 100% legal when you purchased it. If you think THAT is ok, then you're beyond help.
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: GomerPyle]
#3236267
10/07/20 10:32 AM
10/07/20 10:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119 In front of my lathe
gundoc
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
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If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR). Most of the braces can be adjusted for length...doesn't mean they're not still a brace. And the one on that rifle is made by SB Tactical, who is probably the most popular manufacturer of braces. But that's irrelevant. The bigger issue is that the ATF originally gave them the OK to sell it as a pistol brace and said they were good to go. Then they arbitrarily came back and said "nah, nevermind...turn them in, or pay us $200, or we'll come kick your door in, shoot your golden retriever and fine you $10,000 and/or imprison you for 10yrs". THAT is the issue. The LAW is that braces on pistols are legal. The issue is that the ATF keeps "re-interpreting" their definitions periodically with no rhyme or reason so you are now a felon for owning a bumpstock or that pistol, even though you were 100% legal when you purchased it. If you think THAT is ok, then you're beyond help. Well said Gomer! That's what you call "puttin' it down where the goats can get to it"
There are two types of gun enthusiasts ... Those who have been F#CKED by PTG and those who will be!
~ unknown
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236287
10/07/20 11:16 AM
10/07/20 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
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Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: wmd]
#3236291
10/07/20 11:23 AM
10/07/20 11:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
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Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?
Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of: 1. surrendering the product, or 2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or 3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions.
Last edited by GomerPyle; 10/07/20 11:25 AM.
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236292
10/07/20 11:23 AM
10/07/20 11:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,839 AL
hunterbuck
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,839
AL
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I thought when the ATF issued the "it's ok by us to shoulder a pistol brace" edict 3 years or so ago, that they were relaxing a little. Guess not.
"You think I care? Roll Damn Tide"
Have you tried Google?
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236353
10/07/20 12:50 PM
10/07/20 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,878 Alabama
Cactus_buck
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,878
Alabama
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As always it boils down to $$. Everything is kosher AS LONG AS you pony up $200
Last edited by Cactus_buck; 10/07/20 12:50 PM.
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236363
10/07/20 01:02 PM
10/07/20 01:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971 34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
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Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?
The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: GomerPyle]
#3236377
10/07/20 01:14 PM
10/07/20 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
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Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked? Exactly! The ATF has flip-flopped multiple times on their interpretation of braces. Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?
Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of: 1. surrendering the product, or 2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or 3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions. Nah, your inferring skills need some work. And I guess my googling skills need some work too because I could not find where the ATF had given approval to Q's pistols.
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: wmd]
#3236382
10/07/20 01:23 PM
10/07/20 01:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119 In front of my lathe
gundoc
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
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Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked? Exactly! The ATF has flip-flopped multiple times on their interpretation of braces. Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?
Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of: 1. surrendering the product, or 2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or 3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions. Nah, your inferring skills need some work. And I guess my googling skills need some work too because I could not find where the ATF had given approval to Q's pistols. The problem - whether you can find it via google or not - is Q's pistol is nothing more that a 7" barreled pistol with a proprietary SB Tactical armbrace. That means all AR pistol owners who assembled their own gun could all be in the same boat tomorrow.. The "sugar weasel" BATFE told them to submit for eval is the same gun with a SB3 brace.
There are two types of gun enthusiasts ... Those who have been F#CKED by PTG and those who will be!
~ unknown
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: gman]
#3236384
10/07/20 01:25 PM
10/07/20 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
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Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked? Exactly! Seems like the law is pretty clear on pistols & rifles and the ATF is interpreting braces within the context of those laws and have flip-flopped multiple times since at least 2012 on braces/pistols/SBR's.
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: New batf ruling...
[Re: CKyleC]
#3236478
10/07/20 02:47 PM
10/07/20 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761 Marshall County
ALMODUX
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
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I’m for neutering the ATF completely, with regards to tax stamps, suppressors, and definitions/barrel lengths, etc. however, when looking at the Q design, the rubber piece on the end doesn’t seem to be what this is about. It’s the mechanism it’s attached to, which is NOT a typical pistol buffer and upper, at least in appearance....and is the same design their original, patented, RIFLE stock is attached to? Then again, maybe it’s under 26”, as well?
You have to remember: With any government agency, only so much nefariousness is possible within their low competency threshold.
Last edited by ALMODUX; 10/07/20 02:53 PM.
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