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New batf ruling... #3235738
10/06/20 03:44 PM
10/06/20 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,894
Cullman
C
CKyleC Offline OP
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Cullman
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...el-rifle-issues-cease-and-desist-letter/

It will be interesting to see if this is the beginning of them going after all braces


"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3235743
10/06/20 03:50 PM
10/06/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
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Did they explain their reasoning? What makes that particular gun different from other AR pistols?


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3235753
10/06/20 04:04 PM
10/06/20 04:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,375
Helena
3
3toe Offline
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I'd like to know the reasoning as well. Looks like every other AR pistol.

Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3235766
10/06/20 04:26 PM
10/06/20 04:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
ALMODUX Offline
10 point
ALMODUX  Offline
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Marshall County
Just a guess, but the honey badger stock design was (likely) patented as a rifle stock, and not a pistol brace, and merely changing what they designated it didn’t fly once noticed by ATF. The stock is designed a bit differently than the rest of the ‘accessory braces’ that were originally marketed and designed as such.....but?

Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236185
10/07/20 08:10 AM
10/07/20 08:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
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You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...

with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.

If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.

HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: GomerPyle] #3236191
10/07/20 08:26 AM
10/07/20 08:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,922
North AL
A
AU338MAG Online IMG_0051.GIF
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AU338MAG  Online IMG_0051.GIF
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Joined: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by GomerPyle

You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...

with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.

If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.

HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD

He's right you know.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236208
10/07/20 08:46 AM
10/07/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
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B'ham

It's something to do with red tape. I'd probably go with MODUX theory or something similar.

I can't wait for Biden to get elected and then we can all have some real discussion on who's turning what in first. Might get as bad as the Reagan/Bush/Clinton era.


No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: AU338MAG] #3236209
10/07/20 08:50 AM
10/07/20 08:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,709
You are ignoring this user
Thread Killer Offline
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You are ignoring this user
Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Originally Posted by GomerPyle

You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...

with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.

If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.

HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD

He's right you know.



He’s 100% right, but according to our ALdeer Billy Bob Bad ASS Johnnyloco all is in vein. SMDH.

Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236237
10/07/20 09:40 AM
10/07/20 09:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR).


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: wmd] #3236243
10/07/20 09:50 AM
10/07/20 09:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Offline
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Originally Posted by wmd
If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR).


Most of the braces can be adjusted for length...doesn't mean they're not still a brace. And the one on that rifle is made by SB Tactical, who is probably the most popular manufacturer of braces. But that's irrelevant. The bigger issue is that the ATF originally gave them the OK to sell it as a pistol brace and said they were good to go. Then they arbitrarily came back and said "nah, nevermind...turn them in, or pay us $200, or we'll come kick your door in, shoot your golden retriever and fine you $10,000 and/or imprison you for 10yrs".

THAT is the issue. The LAW is that braces on pistols are legal. The issue is that the ATF keeps "re-interpreting" their definitions periodically with no rhyme or reason so you are now a felon for owning a bumpstock or that pistol, even though you were 100% legal when you purchased it. If you think THAT is ok, then you're beyond help.


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: GomerPyle] #3236267
10/07/20 10:32 AM
10/07/20 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
gundoc Offline
14 point
gundoc  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Originally Posted by wmd
If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR).


Most of the braces can be adjusted for length...doesn't mean they're not still a brace. And the one on that rifle is made by SB Tactical, who is probably the most popular manufacturer of braces. But that's irrelevant. The bigger issue is that the ATF originally gave them the OK to sell it as a pistol brace and said they were good to go. Then they arbitrarily came back and said "nah, nevermind...turn them in, or pay us $200, or we'll come kick your door in, shoot your golden retriever and fine you $10,000 and/or imprison you for 10yrs".

THAT is the issue. The LAW is that braces on pistols are legal. The issue is that the ATF keeps "re-interpreting" their definitions periodically with no rhyme or reason so you are now a felon for owning a bumpstock or that pistol, even though you were 100% legal when you purchased it. If you think THAT is ok, then you're beyond help.


Well said Gomer! beers
That's what you call "puttin' it down where the goats can get to it"


There are two types of gun enthusiasts ... Those who have been F#CKED by PTG and those who will be!

~ unknown
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236287
10/07/20 11:16 AM
10/07/20 11:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: wmd] #3236291
10/07/20 11:23 AM
10/07/20 11:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 19,981
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Offline
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GomerPyle  Offline
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Originally Posted by wmd
Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?

Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of:

1. surrendering the product, or
2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or
3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon

Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions.

Last edited by GomerPyle; 10/07/20 11:25 AM.

There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236292
10/07/20 11:23 AM
10/07/20 11:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,839
AL
H
hunterbuck Offline
Booner
hunterbuck  Offline
Booner
H
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,839
AL
I thought when the ATF issued the "it's ok by us to shoulder a pistol brace" edict 3 years or so ago, that they were relaxing a little. Guess not.


"You think I care? Roll Damn Tide"

Have you tried Google?
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236353
10/07/20 12:50 PM
10/07/20 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,878
Alabama
C
Cactus_buck Offline
12 point
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Posts: 4,878
Alabama
As always it boils down to $$. Everything is kosher AS LONG AS you pony up $200

Last edited by Cactus_buck; 10/07/20 12:50 PM.
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236363
10/07/20 01:02 PM
10/07/20 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman Offline
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Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: GomerPyle] #3236377
10/07/20 01:14 PM
10/07/20 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
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Madison, AL
Originally Posted by gman
Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?


Exactly! The ATF has flip-flopped multiple times on their interpretation of braces.
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Originally Posted by wmd
Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?

Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of:

1. surrendering the product, or
2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or
3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon

Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions.


Nah, your inferring skills need some work. And I guess my googling skills need some work too because I could not find where the ATF had given approval to Q's pistols.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: wmd] #3236382
10/07/20 01:23 PM
10/07/20 01:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
gundoc Offline
14 point
gundoc  Offline
14 point
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Posts: 8,119
In front of my lathe
Originally Posted by wmd
Originally Posted by gman
Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?


Exactly! The ATF has flip-flopped multiple times on their interpretation of braces.
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Originally Posted by wmd
Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?

Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of:

1. surrendering the product, or
2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or
3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon

Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions.


Nah, your inferring skills need some work. And I guess my googling skills need some work too because I could not find where the ATF had given approval to Q's pistols.

The problem - whether you can find it via google or not - is Q's pistol is nothing more that a 7" barreled pistol with a proprietary SB Tactical armbrace.
That means all AR pistol owners who assembled their own gun could all be in the same boat tomorrow..
The "sugar weasel" BATFE told them to submit for eval is the same gun with a SB3 brace.


There are two types of gun enthusiasts ... Those who have been F#CKED by PTG and those who will be!

~ unknown
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: gman] #3236384
10/07/20 01:25 PM
10/07/20 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
W
wmd Offline
10 point
wmd  Offline
10 point
W
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,668
Madison, AL
Originally Posted by gman
Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?


Exactly! Seems like the law is pretty clear on pistols & rifles and the ATF is interpreting braces within the context of those laws and have flip-flopped multiple times since at least 2012 on braces/pistols/SBR's.


"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" -
D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
Re: New batf ruling... [Re: CKyleC] #3236478
10/07/20 02:47 PM
10/07/20 02:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
ALMODUX Offline
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ALMODUX  Offline
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Posts: 2,761
Marshall County
I’m for neutering the ATF completely, with regards to tax stamps, suppressors, and definitions/barrel lengths, etc. however, when looking at the Q design, the rubber piece on the end doesn’t seem to be what this is about. It’s the mechanism it’s attached to, which is NOT a typical pistol buffer and upper, at least in appearance....and is the same design their original, patented, RIFLE stock is attached to? Then again, maybe it’s under 26”, as well?

You have to remember: With any government agency, only so much nefariousness is possible within their low competency threshold.

Last edited by ALMODUX; 10/07/20 02:53 PM.
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