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Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB #3012122
01/13/20 03:17 PM
01/13/20 03:17 PM
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Clem Offline OP
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MLB suspended the GM and Manager of the Houston Astros for the entire 2020 season, fined the team millions and are disallowing any 1st and 2nd round draft picks this year.

It's based on the camera cheating the Astros did in 2017 when they won the Series. Despite MLB telling all clubs to not use outfield cameras, Apple Watches (like the Red Sox did) or any other means to steal signs from opposing teams, the Astros continued to do it throughout the post-season.

The two suspensions are the most handed down since the Black Sox Scandal 100 years ago.

The Astros owner also just fired the GM and manager.


Don't get caught cheating if you're going to be a cheater.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012345
01/13/20 07:45 PM
01/13/20 07:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
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Longwood, FL
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jlbuc10 Offline
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I never thought they punishments wouldn’t be that harsh, but good for them. Steal signs the old way, not with video help.
2017 WS champion Astros caught stealing signs
2018 WS champs Red sox caught stealing signs
2019 Super Bowl champions Patriots caught cheating
Pays to be a cheater

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012631
01/13/20 09:39 PM
01/13/20 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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behind my Dillon
dave260rem! Offline
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Clem should Cora face any punishment? I know it's being talked about but...3 full seasons have passed. You "baseball is boring" people realize with sandpaper&ky jelly unathletic as I am I can make a baseball violate the laws of physics. Personally I hope AC is cleared even if I'm a Yankees fan and he manages the Saux.


Only hits count.
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012791
01/13/20 10:43 PM
01/13/20 10:43 PM
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Cullman
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Zkd22 Offline
8 point
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I think Cora will be fired also. The Astros owner already made a statement cleaning house so I figure the Red Sox will be forced to follow suit. I could be wrong though

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012821
01/13/20 10:55 PM
01/13/20 10:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,616
Pelham
Ben2 Online IMG_0051.GIF
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Maybe they will do us all a favor and shut down MLB, then the NFL can follow suit

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012836
01/13/20 11:02 PM
01/13/20 11:02 PM
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Posts: 7,162
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RCHRR Offline
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What is wrong with stealing signals?

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3012902
01/13/20 11:31 PM
01/13/20 11:31 PM
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Nothing...but they used technology this time.


Only hits count.
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Ben2] #3013028
01/14/20 07:05 AM
01/14/20 07:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
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Zkd22 Offline
8 point
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Originally Posted by Ben2
Maybe they will do us all a favor and shut down MLB, then the NFL can follow suit

Yeah they could even bust some dams on the coosa too

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013160
01/14/20 09:26 AM
01/14/20 09:26 AM
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gman Offline
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Pete bet on his own team to WIN and gets a lifetime ban. These teams cheat using technology and just get a year. Seems legit.


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: gman] #3013168
01/14/20 09:31 AM
01/14/20 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gman
Pete bet on his own team to WIN and gets a lifetime ban. These teams cheat using technology and just get a year. Seems legit.

I was a big fan of Pete as a kid, but his sins were unforgivable. It doesn't matter is he bet to win or lose.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013328
01/14/20 12:22 PM
01/14/20 12:22 PM
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Santa Rosa/Conecuh
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Seems a bit harsh to me, teams have been stealing signals since the start of the sport.

Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: dave260rem!] #3013345
01/14/20 12:32 PM
01/14/20 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dave260rem!
Clem should Cora face any punishment? I know it's being talked about but...3 full seasons have passed. You "baseball is boring" people realize with sandpaper&ky jelly unathletic as I am I can make a baseball violate the laws of physics. Personally I hope AC is cleared even if I'm a Yankees fan and he manages the Saux.



I think Cora and Beltran will, yes. They're not done yet and reportedly about 8-9 teams were doing something like this.

There's an interesting story on ESPN today about how baseball's "ownership level" management - essentially, the other owners and GMs - are pissed off that the Astros' owner comes off looking like Dudley Do-Right. He knew last weekend about the MLB report and what was coming, and then orchestrated everything to make it look like he was righteous and upright in firing the GM and Manager.

But the $5M penalty isn't anything to him and the draft pick losses for two seasons won't amount to much pain. He got off with a wrist-slap. The rest of the league is pissed off.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: gman] #3013353
01/14/20 12:40 PM
01/14/20 12:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Originally Posted by gman
Pete bet on his own team to WIN and gets a lifetime ban. These teams cheat using technology and just get a year. Seems legit.


I've tried to weigh these two situations and have come to this.

Both suck and involve shitty people. But IMO there's a difference, albeit small yet important.

Rose bet on games on his own team. He made decisions about his team that could have cost them a game, thus impacting his possible bet. "Forget" to signal a shift on a batter who ropes a single or double for runs? Oops, "brain fart." I believe Rose said he never bet on the Reds to lose, but that spectre - not to mention that "no gambling" is THE most hammered rule in baseball, stemming from the Black Sox - still is a possibility. Rose also was not apologetic and lied to everyone about it, for years. So IMO a lifetime ban was warranted.

The Astros used technology to cheat only to win games. Did it negatively impact the game? Yes. It's a black blip that will be part of baseball's history. But already there's an attitude of "Everyone does it, if you're not trying to steal signs you're not a player" as if it's no big deal. Same in NASCAR. Same in the NFL and college, where you're looking for "that edge" to get the other team, which often means stealing sideline signals and relaying them to coaches or players.

Compared to betting on your own team, I don't think using tech to steal signs is as bad and doesn't warrant a lifetime ban. But it's pretty damned close.

Thing is, by June when the sunshine's out and hotdogs are hot and the beer is cold, no one will give two rips about what the Astros or Red Sox did three years ago.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013455
01/14/20 02:30 PM
01/14/20 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 11,971
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gman Offline
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Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by gman
Pete bet on his own team to WIN and gets a lifetime ban. These teams cheat using technology and just get a year. Seems legit.


I've tried to weigh these two situations and have come to this.


Thing is, by June when the sunshine's out and hotdogs are hotwarm and the beer is coldtoo, no one will give two rips about what the Astros or Red Sox did three years ago.
fify grin


The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013583
01/14/20 05:00 PM
01/14/20 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 17,924
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Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by gman
Pete bet on his own team to WIN and gets a lifetime ban. These teams cheat using technology and just get a year. Seems legit.


I've tried to weigh these two situations and have come to this.

Both suck and involve shitty people. But IMO there's a difference, albeit small yet important.

Rose bet on games on his own team. He made decisions about his team that could have cost them a game, thus impacting his possible bet. "Forget" to signal a shift on a batter who ropes a single or double for runs? Oops, "brain fart." I believe Rose said he never bet on the Reds to lose, but that spectre - not to mention that "no gambling" is THE most hammered rule in baseball, stemming from the Black Sox - still is a possibility. Rose also was not apologetic and lied to everyone about it, for years. So IMO a lifetime ban was warranted.

The Astros used technology to cheat only to win games. Did it negatively impact the game? Yes. It's a black blip that will be part of baseball's history. But already there's an attitude of "Everyone does it, if you're not trying to steal signs you're not a player" as if it's no big deal. Same in NASCAR. Same in the NFL and college, where you're looking for "that edge" to get the other team, which often means stealing sideline signals and relaying them to coaches or players.

Compared to betting on your own team, I don't think using tech to steal signs is as bad and doesn't warrant a lifetime ban. But it's pretty damned close.

Thing is, by June when the sunshine's out and hotdogs are hot and the beer is cold, no one will give two rips about what the Astros or Red Sox did three years ago.

The other issue with betting on your team to win is this. If Rose chose not to bet on his team on any day this was a signal to the bookies and bettors that knew what Pete was doing to change their habits. He affected others with his patterns. Also, he could have been compromised if he got his azz in a bind with unsavory men with bent noses and been forced to manage games a certain way.

To say he only bet on his team to win can't hurt anything is really missing the reasons for the no betting rule.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013620
01/14/20 05:44 PM
01/14/20 05:44 PM
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Posts: 12,651
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dave260rem! Offline
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Heard the other owners front office folks were PO'ed that Crane gets nothing penalty wise. I think he knew. Here's the rub with me Crane knows about slides past mlb only "punishment" he can get is if every player leaves the organization.


Only hits count.
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3013825
01/14/20 08:31 PM
01/14/20 08:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Clem Offline OP
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Cora fired by the Red Sox - "mutual agreement to part ways"

Up next: Beltran with the Mets? Possibly.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...manager-following-sign-stealing-scandals

Last edited by Clem; 01/14/20 08:33 PM.

"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Astros GM, Manager fired, team hammered by MLB [Re: Clem] #3015585
01/16/20 04:01 PM
01/16/20 04:01 PM
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Beltran, Mets agree to part ways.

Some reports say MLB is still investigating other teams. Could be more fallout.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020

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