Which loads do yall recommend for timber hunting? What about open water hunting for divers? I have a plethora of chokes to try with whatever loads yall like, but I am looking for the best all-around loads. The thing I hated worst about rookie duck hunting was the cripples that got away.

Mod w/ no. 2's would be the best all around combo for just about any duck hunting

I kill more birds with 2 3/4” Kent #4’s. Unless I’m shooting goose.

I shoot 3's with am improved cylinder in the timber and 1's with a modified in the fields. Seem to kill my share.

I shoot Kent Faststeel shells for ducks.

Alabama Wood Ducks - 20 Gauge /3 inch / #3 or #4 with a i/c chokes OR 12 Gauge / 2&3/4 / #3s or #4s with i/c choke

Big Ducks in timber or field - 12 Gauge / 3 inch / #2 or #3 with a mod choke

Wood duck spots I hunt are usually pretty tight, so shots are about 30 yards max. Heading out to MS, TN or AR I never know what I am going to encounter, so my setup for big ducks usually will work well in different situations for me. Just have to make sure I do my part and make the shot.

Something nobody has made mention of yet is the actual load size. I am firm believer in slow and heavy over fast and light. My go to factory load is Winchester Drylok 12ga 3” 3 shot 1-3/8oz load. This load has served me extremely well and when I went to Maine and Mass I jumped up to a 3 1/2” 1-9/16oz. Always the heaviest load for the shell length.

That is the kind of information I am after. I honestly have not been able to wrap my mind around whether it is better to go slow/heavy or light/fast. Hard to know if the cripples we produced last year were due to not putting enough pattern density on the bird or the simply inferiority of steel shot (which can be lessened with greater velocity obviously). We are set to do some patterning this week which I think will help tremendously, but really curious if folks as a whole are more confident with slow/heavy or light/fast. It sure seems like to me, studying how many pellets are in various payloads, that if you're shooting 4's for instance, you would be better off going with light/fast given there are still plenty of pellets in a lighter payload. Whereas, if you're shooting 1's or 2's, there aren't very many pellets in a light/fast load. I dunno. The main thing I know is that steel SUX!

Another factor I think about (I am aerospace engineer so I over analyze everything) is the huge aerodynamic profile of the bigger steel shot, on top of a poor density, and I eventually conclude that those pellets HAVE to bleed off velocity big time relative to a more efficient projectile. That means poor velocity downrange and shooting behind birds (in my mind at least). That is another reason I have been thinking that maybe I wanted to go more toward light/fast. I had made my mind up that I was gonna spring for Remington Hypersonic shells then I read all of the horror stories so I quickly nixed that idea. Still searching for the best overall solution for various situations.

Speed is what makes steel kill. Slower loads less than 1500 are not reliable killers at ranges 40 yards plus. A killer load that we have shot for about 8 years is Black Cloud 3" 1 1/8 oz. #2 for ducks and BB for geese. Until last year it was called Federal's Snow Goose load. It runs 1650 fps and will flat kill.
They are not that expensive either. We buy from Rogers Sporting Goods by the case. Right now they are $179 ($129 after rebate) with a $50/case or $5/box mail in rebate. Their 2 3/4" shell runs at 1550 fps and will flat shoot also and they are $109 after rebate. Now you are talking shooting premium shells at promo cost. No brainer. The only thing better I have personally shot in steel were my reloads that were 2 3/4" load of 1 oz #3 @ 1700 fps. #2 were good but #3 filled the pattern a little better.
I would venture and not trying to ruffle any feathers that not many folks suggesting promo steel loads by any company (i.e. you pay less than $10/box locally at WM or Academy or BPS) have ever shot many premium shells.
Kent IMHO makes the best lower priced shell available.
Heavier is not always better...unless your a down lineman!

Jughead since you are an engineer and analyzing things to the nth degree. The black Cloud has the best wad "Flite Control" in the industry. The petals deploy from the rear rather than the front thus keeping the shot together longer upon deployment. Two different types of pellets in this load and burn the cleanest of any Federal shell I ever shot. I have never been a Federal fan but don't argue with progress.

I'm sold brother. I just ordered a case from Rogers, along with some other stuff I have been meaning to order. You confirmed what I have been thinking all along, but I didn't want to end up with a shell that could potentially harm our guns like I have read about the Hypersonics. Just hoping and praying they will pattern good through one of our chokes. I really want to do a better job at not crippling up too many. It really bothers me to shoot an animal and not recover it, regardless of which animal it is.

The only sure way to know is to pattern the gun but I have heard( can not confirm) that as light a steel is you can blow a pattern out with too much speed. Be interesting to know if that is true.

It’s true

I’ve reloaded duck loads for years now. Talked with guys that have been loading steel shot since the early days.

A good all around load for steel shot shooting ducks is gonna be a 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 load running 1450 to 1550. Most guns will pattern this load consistently well enough to 40 yards.

You can go extreme from there and get ready to really do some patterning and playing with velocities.

I have a load I may revisit this year that runs 1825 FPS in a 1 ounce of number 3s. Never could get 4a out past 30 yards for a decent pattern. The 3 s fall apart past 40 yards.

You can google 43X loads he has numerous light fast loads.

Ned has some more but he has gone on to the happy hunting grounds in the sky.

Not true...that's kind of like "they said"....whoever "they" are. Absolutely baseless. You just have to choke it correctly. Usually the light loads can be constricted tighter because there is less payload going down the barrel. With my 1 oz. loads I shot a Remington Steel Full screw in. Deadly to 45 yds. Nobody should be shooting further than that anyway to kill cleanly.

I think another aspect of reducing cripples is knowing the limitation of your gun, choke and shell selection when it comes to distance. If you are shooting the latest guns, with long range chokes and have the right shell selection, making a 40+ yard kill shot consistently is possible for experienced hunters. Based on MY ability and gun/choke/shell setup, I try to keep my shots at 40 yards and under. Pass shooting wood ducks at tree top level or teal buzzing at 45 might produce a hit for me, but chances are the bird takes a hit and keeps going. 1350 1 oz for my closer shots with a 20 gauge and I try to keep the 12 gauge in the 1 1/4 oz range 1,300 - 1,500.

A lot of info here

https://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

I prefer 3s. Work well all around

Don't remember where to find it but Reloading Specalties use to have a matrix that included Feet per Second, size of pellet, and foot pounds of energy at 10 yard intervals. There is a "magic" number of foot pounds of energy needed for penetration and clean kills.
Of course the bigger the shot the more foot pounds but it also retained its velocity better downrange. #6 steel was almost petered out beyond 30 yards on up to BB which were still lethal "on paper" at 50-55..
If i come across it, I'll try to post it.

Just load some up with TSS.

Ahhhhhhh........th' Killin' Ability of Lead 4's!!!

I would be content with lead 6's! Did I mention that steel SUX!?!?!

Has anyone tried any of the boss bismuth shells. They are a small company from up north. They are low on inventory but update it every few days. Not cheap
https://bossshotshells.com/

You're wanting to go down a deep dark rabbit hole. It's what led me to reload steel shot. RSI has a great booklet full of info but it's copyrighted so I won't parlay it here openly. I shoot 3 of their loads and 1 that is a hybrid of 2 of their loads another guy pointed me to.

Steel going fast will kill better, however some say that the faster it starts out the quicker it also slows down. IDK

I know of a guy that shoot 3.5 Kent running 1400 fps and kills out to 50 plus yards. He's a dang good shot and knows that load and how to work it.

I like the faster loads 1 1/8 oz of 4's running 1600 fps plus. However on cold windy days in the rice that load sucks and I switch to E shot or larger steel shot in 1 3/8s or so.

There is no magic bullet truthfully.

Steel sux as you say and the closet thing to it is gonna be Bismuth. I considering playing with this year maybe?

I shoot a pattermaster extended range choke for everything except turkey. If I’m hunting open area I shoot #2 Kent for ducks and geese. If I’m hunting tight spots for I shoot #6 shoot Kent Teal Steal. It’s heck on mallards. If you are hunting good decoying birds 2 3/4 4’s. Seen more ducks and geese killed with that load than any other. I’ve been told mag blend turkey shot is some count on waterfowl!!!

From a purely aerodynamic perspective, they are correct. The drag load on a projectile is a function of the velocity squared. Hence, the rate at which airspeed degrades will be greater.

However, not having run any calculations or anything, I would bet my bottom dollar a piece of shot fired at 1600 fps will still be going WAY faster at 40 yards than one fired at 1300 fps.

If I ever get serious about duck hunting, I may end up going down that rabbit hole you mentioned. However, as of now, a duck ain't even in the same zip code as a turkey for me personally. Hence (for now), ain't gonna be no high dollar TSS, reloads of any kind, etc. Of the forms of duck hunting I have tried on public land, in the timber where boats can't get to is by far my favorite. I like to get outdoors to get away from all of the noise and hustle and bustle of life and the open water hunting and mud motors running all over the place 45 minutes into shooting light aint my favorite by a long shot. For this year, I'm gonna shoot these Black Cloud high velocity shells (I can handle $13 a box after rebate) 3's (may pick up a box of 4's to try too given so many of you guys are high on them) through all of our chokes and just pick the best one and go have fun with my high school senior son before he is gone.

I haven't put the pencil to paper, but I wonder if the TSS route would be close enough to the cost of factory steel loads to make it worth trying? Buying the BPI shot and only having to run about a 1/2oz load and assuming the number of shots needed would be less. Maybe there's a breaking point somewhere, when you do decide to go down a rabbit hole. However, close timber shots in hunting situations like you described, the route you're going seems to be best.

Dave in AZ has done a lot of work testing TSS for waterfowl. Here's one of his articles:

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/tss-where-is-its-niche/

If you click on the menu button at the top of his page, it shows all the articles he's written over the years about loading steel. I have enjoyed reading his work because he bases it on actual testing instead of theory, and he doesn't seem to have an agenda.

I thought about all of that prior to last duck season. Even if you consider having to shoot each duck 3 times (which happened way more last year than I care to admit), I never could even get close to arriving at the conclusion that rolling my own with some form of heavier-than-lead (HTL) was a good business case. Maybe if I ended up with a much cheaper source for bulk shot from overseas if could be possible, but I just don't care enough to pursue it any further than I did last year. Heck, I couldn't even convince myself to buy steel and roll a superior shell (maybe) than what you can get off the shelf. Just too damn expensive for the shot itself. Would be better off buying some clearanced cheapo shells and stealing the shot out of them....but screw that headache too.

I agree and that seems like common sense. Most of my duck hunts would have benefited from using TSS.

For your hunting situation, it would be more trouble than it's worth.

I found that out myself. Every shell is is PITA just like TSS. I justified it cause I wanted to load TSS for turkeys and dabble with steel shot loads. Steel powder doesn't drop efficiently so each powder drop is weighed. I bought an auto powder dispenser that has definitely sped things up. Each steel shot load is hand weighed. On a good day I can crank out a box of steel shot (25 shells) in about 35 minutes. Not bad if you're shooting HP rifles or TSS loads. But when your burning powder in the field it kinda sucks trying to keep up. I usually load most shells during the summer and early fall.

RSI affiliated Bucks Run has E Shot which is a heavier than steel shot that does pattern nicely. I use Longshot powder with that so it goes much faster loading those shells since Longshot drops nicely thru the charge bar. I've tried numerous duplex loads etc....

Sometimes its better to buy your shells and go hunt, trust me on that. That's what I did last year.

Ain’t no doubt. If I shot all of my turkeys at 30 yds or closer, I wouldn’t be loading TSS. It’d definitely be a lot less hassle.

My Son just ordered some Boss 2 3/4" shells. I am going to buy a box from him ands try them. He shot some out in ND this year and said they are the cat's meow. They better be at $1.25/shell.

One more thing. Chokes matter on pattern with ANY type shot. I shoot a Paternmaster now but used to shoot a Briley LM out of any back bored gun and got good results out to 40 yards using #3-5 steel. Just in the last few years started using heavy metal. Good results too.

Here are some pattern testing I did a while back with a Remington 870 Express Super Magnum, 26" bbl, 40yds from a bench rest. Paper is roughly 24" x 24". The black cloud was absolutely deadly when I hunted big ducks on open water down in Corpus Christi, TX.

Carlsons Mid-Range Remington Nitro Steel




Carlson's Mid-Range Black Cloud




Carlson's Long Range Remington Nitro Steel




Carlson's Long Range Black Cloud

Good info!

I have a couple of boxes of Boss in the 12Ga 2 3/4 coming in this week, along with a case of their 16 Gauge. I'll try to throw up a pattern on here when they're in. They are supposed to be top notch.

I shoot Black Cloud myself becaues they pattern very well from my shotgun. Only reason and they are fast I think 1550fps. But i just shoot cheap Estates at Cripples. You can waste some shells shooting cripples on big water.

I like #2's.

I like BB's for real open water diver hunting, etc. I like 3's for Timber.

#2's are the compromise and don't give up a whole lot either direction.

Steel shot really sucks but there is no need for TSS that's been done in waterfowl loads for more than a decade. The better steel shot we have today moving 1500fps will kill ducks like they were struck by lightening as far as any duck hunter can expect to reasonably hit them. If you are sky busting then it is a hail mary either way.... and you are going to waste a lot of ammo doesn't matter what you are shooting.

I like 3s for ducks, 2s I guess as well. For geese, i use 2s or bb

Winchester 3” #2s for me. I got lucky and the cheap stuff patterned fine for me out of an 870 with a kicks high flyer mod. Whenever I head over to arkie or the delta I’ll take some Hevi-Metal #2s for open fields. The hevi patterns a tad better and seems to really knock’em on out

I prefer 3" Rio Magnum 4's. Seem to kill decoying birds very well and are clean shooting. 3" 6's in the timber would be my choice. Chokes in your gun and barrel length will certainly alter your pattern.

This is an interesting read for sure much luke Turkey chokes and shells.

I am partial to the red box Federals in 3" #2. I previously had good luck out of Winchester, Rio and Fiocchi steel too.

Remington steel just isn't that reliable in my experience. They pattern fine, but their downrange effectiveness is not what I experience with other shells.

Shoot and get confident in your shell and what it can do. That's probably the most important thing.