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Barbour Co. experiment?? #2942082
11/01/19 06:36 AM
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central ala,
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The antler restriction thats different than the rest of the State has been going on at my best guess about 10 years. Should be plenty of data. Has there ever been anything put in print so the hunters of Alabama can see the data points and conclusion to this point? Has it changed anything? How long will it continue? Is it a waste of time or something other counties might consider?

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942113
11/01/19 07:16 AM
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That's a great point. I have thought about that. I think the data on antler restriction is pretty weak, and may even be self-defeating/counter productive, from everything I've heard and read.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942155
11/01/19 08:09 AM
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Yeah, we helped pay for it. Are we out of the equation
now?


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942177
11/01/19 08:35 AM
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Do not know of any data that has originated from the Barbour County restriction. Rules and regulations keep honest people honest. Road hunters, night hunters and the folks that say "can't tell me what to do" are going to keep killing any buck they see and just say "killed this spike in Pike County". From my personal experience, we had two clubs that bordered us that would shoot pretty much every buck they saw until the reg was put in place. They are honest guys so they followed rules and about two years later we began to see an increase in the number of bucks older bucks.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942179
11/01/19 08:41 AM
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My thoughts are same as Overland I hunt down there enough to make a judgement. Plenty of dishonest groups around there as well, It always depends on your neighbors.

Floor at the deer processor is typically full of small racked bucks. It might be saving some spikes but that is about it. Around the WMA a 2-3 year old will meet the antler restrictions so making it to 4-5 years is still almost an impossibility there are a lot of hunters.



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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942253
11/01/19 10:20 AM
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The numbers are the numbers. It's OK for an experiment to not work for whatever reason. Just say we accomplished nothing and move on. It happens. No big deal. At least you tried.
Sooooo, why does the antler restriction carry on??

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942341
11/01/19 12:31 PM
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Glad it is in place and would hate to see it rescinded. To my knowledge it has not hurt those wanting to kill deer and has produced an upside for those of us that want a better opportunity at seeing a mature buck. Wish they would adopt it in Morgan County.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942364
11/01/19 12:52 PM
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Not a fan of antler restrictions being imposed by the state. If a club wants to do it that's great but the way antler restrictions work ends up getting 2 -3 year old bucks shot, which are still immature deer.

I shot my share of youngins when I was a young hunter, but I grew outta that. I like to watch em cause they're entertaining when young bucks are chasin does. I've almost started laughing a few times over the years watching young bucks. Like watching teenage boys chasin tail. But I have a pile of those antlers in my basement, and I'm not looking to make it bigger. If I want some venison. I'll pop a doe.


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942368
11/01/19 01:01 PM
11/01/19 01:01 PM
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Clanton, AL
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Additional regulations can be enacted by any county. Your county commission has the legal authority to add or amend game regulations.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942378
11/01/19 01:17 PM
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Thread from 2012 about the same topic - http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=288842

According to it, the county antler restriction was about 4-5 years old in 2012 meaning it probably was approved in 2006 or so when the "Let's save our bucks with a 3-buck limit because no one needs more than three!" mandate was hammered in.

But it says the WMA antler restriction was 10 years old, meaning Barbour WMA went on the restriction in about 2002 or so.

Which means the county has had some kind of antler mandates for about or almost 20 years, initially pushed for by the residents there.


How's the antler growth been in that time? Lot of mature breeders in the population and 150s and 160s coming out of the county? Not kidding, b/c I haven't kept up with it. Are the bucks bigger and more mature thanks to the regulations?


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: AU338MAG] #2942379
11/01/19 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Not a fan of antler restrictions being imposed by the state. If a club wants to do it that's great but the way antler restrictions work ends up getting 2 -3 year old bucks shot, which are still immature deer.

I shot my share of youngins when I was a young hunter, but I grew outta that. I like to watch em cause they're entertaining when young bucks are chasin does. I've almost started laughing a few times over the years watching young bucks. Like watching teenage boys chasin tail. But I have a pile of those antlers in my basement, and I'm not looking to make it bigger. If I want some venison. I'll pop a doe.


Barbour County's antler regulations were asked for by the residents, just like how the voters in Randolph County in the early 1990s got dog deer hunting ended by getting it on the ballot and voting to ban it.


As for the WMAs, the state can do whatever it believes is best on them.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942382
11/01/19 01:24 PM
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calling Matt Brock....anything you can share?

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Clem] #2942384
11/01/19 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Clem



How's the antler growth been in that time? Lot of mature breeders in the population and 150s and 160s coming out of the county? Not kidding, b/c I haven't kept up with it. Are the bucks bigger and more mature thanks to the regulations?



There have been some studs come out of Barbour but I think that's traditionally been the case even before the antler restrictions. The restrictions were put in place mainly as a result of there being a large presence of private landowners in the county and them getting tired of the folks leasing land blasting the hell out of everything. I'm not condoning either side of the argument here just stating what happened. The private landowners got together and voted the antler restrictions in to keep the "Florida hunters" and others from shooting up all the small bucks. I've got a good friend that takes care of the management area....I'll ask him next time we talk and see if anything has ever been done from a data standpoint. I know they have some good deer on the management area but again I think that's just about always been the case. More than likely if it did anything it increased the number of 3 year old bucks being killed. The ones that would have been killed as 1-2 years olds just lived a little longer. This may or may not have resulted in more bucks making it to maturity

Last edited by CNC; 11/01/19 01:30 PM.

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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942385
11/01/19 01:29 PM
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I would say not really...all the antler restrictions have done is move the needle one year. There are more small racked bucks, yes. Next in line to take a bullet.

I don't consider it completely unsucessful but with the ability to shoot a "deer" at any time plenty of immature deer still get shot including many button bucks, etc.


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Overland] #2942386
11/01/19 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Overland
Glad it is in place and would hate to see it rescinded. To my knowledge it has not hurt those wanting to kill deer and has produced an upside for those of us that want a better opportunity at seeing a mature buck. Wish they would adopt it in Morgan County.



Have you seen more mature bucks?

Is there statistical data in the county to support the theory of more mature bucks with APRs or season limits?

Anecdotal is fine. "Aw, you know if you don't shoot them they'll get older." Yep. Sounds good. But what do the processors or GameCheck show (even in GC's limited time) or the WMA info from Barbour WMA?

Because after 20ish years, Barbour should be crawling with mature bucks in the 150+ range and younger, healthier bucks.


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: CNC] #2942387
11/01/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by Clem



How's the antler growth been in that time? Lot of mature breeders in the population and 150s and 160s coming out of the county? Not kidding, b/c I haven't kept up with it. Are the bucks bigger and more mature thanks to the regulations?



There have been some studs come out of Barbour but I think that's traditionally been the case even before the antler restrictions. The restrictions were put in place mainly as a result of there being a large presence of private landowners in the county and them getting tired of the folks leasing land blasting the hell out of everything. I'm not condoning either side of the argument here just stating what happened. The private landowners got together and voted the antler restrictions in to keep the "Florida hunters" and others from shooting up all the small bucks. I've got a good friend that takes care of the management area....I'll ask him next time we talk and see if anything has ever been done from a data standpoint. I know they have some good deer on the management area but again I think that's just about always been the case. More than likely if it did anything it increased the number of 3 year old bucks being killed. The ones that would have been killed as 1-2 years olds just lived a little longer. This may or may not have resulted in more bucks making it to maturity


Thanks. I think it's a fascinating glance at the hunter-bucks-mandates situation.


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942395
11/01/19 01:47 PM
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You guys do know that all of the harvest information for our WMA's is easily accessible online?

The answer is a simple yes based on the collected data to Clem's question. More mature bucks being killed, less young ones taken, better age structure overall. Look at the data. There is a reason these antler restrictions are now in place at other WMA's like oakmulgee now, someone thinks it works and they have the data to back it up.

FYI the "qdm" restrictions in Barbour started in 99-00 according to the data set.

wma

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: dirkdaddy] #2942398
11/01/19 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dirkdaddy
You guys do know that all of the harvest information for our WMA's is easily accessible online?

The answer is a simple yes based on the collected data to Clem's question. More mature bucks being killed, less young ones taken, better age structure overall. Look at the data. There is a reason these antler restrictions are now in place at other WMA's like oakmulgee now, someone thinks it works and they have the data to back it up.

FYI the "qdm" restrictions in Barbour started in 99-00 according to the data set.

wma


At first glance I notice that 1) The restrictions have moved the needle just like stated from 1 year olds being killed to 2-3 year olds being killed. It doesn't give info for 5-6 year old though. That's what I'd be curious to see. Did it result in more mature bucks being killed or just move the same harvest up one age class?....2) I also notice there seems to be a big decline in hunter participation over the years...just sayin

Last edited by CNC; 11/01/19 01:55 PM.

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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Clem] #2942423
11/01/19 03:20 PM
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Clem - Yes, since the change I have seen many more mature bucks than I did before the restrictions. Unfortunately, 150+ bucks aren't behind every tree, and no one ever thought they would be. As I mentioned in my original response, "my personal experience" so yes it is anecdotal. I do now remember that it was pushed for by Barbour County landowners and in the past decade I have not heard one landowner or hunter that I come in contact with complain about it.

As for the size of the bucks in my particular area, during that 20 year period, several factors changed. (1) Lots of row crop was converted to pines (2) deer population increased significantly (3) road/night hunting increased significantly. During the early 90's we had some sure enough bruisers come out of the area where I hunt, but you could sit in a stand for three days straight and only see two deer. We still have great deer that come out of the area, but a lot of the land if privately owned and a lot of folks don't talk about the big deer they have taken. We also have a strain of native AL deer which don't carry a lot of mass.

Last thing, our farm/club has been in existence for almost 50 years and we have kept detailed records since mid-90s. The number of large deer killed each year has increased over the past 20 and actually decreased as we have all become more selective.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942430
11/01/19 03:27 PM
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For the conversation - A typical 4.5 y/o buck in my area will weigh on average 180 lbs, be a straight 8 with shorter brow tines and probably be about 17-18 inches. A nice deer by anyone's standards but its not going to set the record books on fire. Deer that we see that push the 140+ range usually have 10 points, 18-22 inches wide and lots of mass. They exist, they just don't want to cooperate.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942457
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Cool. Thanks for your insights.


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: CNC] #2942475
11/01/19 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by dirkdaddy
You guys do know that all of the harvest information for our WMA's is easily accessible online?

The answer is a simple yes based on the collected data to Clem's question. More mature bucks being killed, less young ones taken, better age structure overall. Look at the data. There is a reason these antler restrictions are now in place at other WMA's like oakmulgee now, someone thinks it works and they have the data to back it up.

FYI the "qdm" restrictions in Barbour started in 99-00 according to the data set.

wma


At first glance I notice that 1) The restrictions have moved the needle just like stated from 1 year olds being killed to 2-3 year olds being killed. It doesn't give info for 5-6 year old though. That's what I'd be curious to see. Did it result in more mature bucks being killed or just move the same harvest up one age class?....2) I also notice there seems to be a big decline in hunter participation over the years...just sayin


I don’t think there’s a reliable way to accurately age deer that are 3+. It’s all an educated guess.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942480
11/01/19 04:47 PM
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I lived in Clayton and went to school at Dixie Academy. This was late 60's and early 70's and remember some really big deer killed around peanut fields. What was big in my eyes then may not be so big to me now.

I don't remember the landowners asking for it but could have been. I remember it as the State doing it. If the State was doing it, I really don't care if the results were good or bad, just the facts. Thought it might bring out something to consider for others.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942495
11/01/19 05:01 PM
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I have some pics of deer killed in the 80's down there and they are big, even by today's standard. Boyd's over in Texasville had a board where folks would post pics of the deer they killed locally. There were always a few exceptional deer in those pics. Not sure if they still do that.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942511
11/01/19 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by centralala
I lived in Clayton and went to school at Dixie Academy. This was late 60's and early 70's and remember some really big deer killed around peanut fields. What was big in my eyes then may not be so big to me now.

I don't remember the landowners asking for it but could have been. I remember it as the State doing it. If the State was doing it, I really don't care if the results were good or bad, just the facts. Thought it might bring out something to consider for others.


The way I've always heard it, from the beginning, was "the hunters and people in Barbour County wanted this" and it was spurred by the county in Georgia that did it.

You live down there, though, so you're in a better position to maybe clarify.

I don't believe the DCNR just picked Barbour out of 67 counties and manded APRs there, though, without request-support from locals.

Speaking of the Georgia county, does it pump out giant mature bucks and offer hunters a higher quality experience? They've had APRs for almost 30 years or more


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Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942516
11/01/19 05:27 PM
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I don't live there any more and I DANG sure don't trust my memory.....or my eyesight.....or my hearing!

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942548
11/01/19 06:45 PM
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OK, this is what I found:

Kenny Childree had witnessed first-hand the positive impact an antler restriction had on the deer herd at Barbour County Wildlife Management Area (WMA), and he was one of the leaders who pushed for similar regulations for the entire county.

The Alabama Conservation Advisory Board heeded that request and set up a five-year program that would try to measure the impact of the regulations.


As data collection enters its final year in the current 2009-10 season, Childree has already drawn his own conclusions from a layman�s perspective.


So, the citizens and the CAB was involved. Data collection been over for 9 years. What was the impact if any from the gathered data? Where can each year of data be seen?

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942550
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PDL, Fl
its a secret

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942564
11/01/19 07:10 PM
11/01/19 07:10 PM
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Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline OP
14 point
centralala  Offline OP
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central ala,
I have actually found some info from the biologist over this, Bill Gray. Long read. He throws out some really impressive numbers. The testing is over as of 2010 but the people of Barbour Co. were pleased enough to stay with it. I could see more counties wanting this if they were aware of all Bill Gray had to say. Example: They had a 500% reduction in harvest of 1.5 year old bucks and a 375% increase in 3.5 year old bucks. The number of man days required to harvest a 3.5 year old bucks was reduced significantly.

That all sounds great. Why hasn't it been published and publicized more?

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942570
11/01/19 07:21 PM
11/01/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by centralala
OK, this is what I found:

Kenny Childree had witnessed first-hand the positive impact an antler restriction had on the deer herd at Barbour County Wildlife Management Area (WMA), and he was one of the leaders who pushed for similar regulations for the entire county.



That's my friend's dad....I used to hunt their land will Bill Gray back about 10 years ago before I started up my own club on some of their other family land.

Last edited by CNC; 11/01/19 07:22 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942668
11/01/19 09:20 PM
11/01/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,843
Montgomery / Luverne
crenshawco Online content
Booner
crenshawco  Online Content
Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,843
Montgomery / Luverne
Requesting reliable data from the DCNR?

[Linked Image]

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942715
11/01/19 10:08 PM
11/01/19 10:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted by centralala
I have actually found some info from the biologist over this, Bill Gray. Long read. He throws out some really impressive numbers. The testing is over as of 2010 but the people of Barbour Co. were pleased enough to stay with it. I could see more counties wanting this if they were aware of all Bill Gray had to say. Example: They had a 500% reduction in harvest of 1.5 year old bucks and a 375% increase in 3.5 year old bucks. The number of man days required to harvest a 3.5 year old bucks was reduced significantly.

That all sounds great. Why hasn't it been published and publicized more?


Just being the devils dvocate here... but if it were published and talked about more would the public believe the numbers were true or take the stance directly above?

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: NightHunter] #2942724
11/01/19 10:16 PM
11/01/19 10:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,843
Montgomery / Luverne
crenshawco Online content
Booner
crenshawco  Online Content
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Montgomery / Luverne
Originally Posted by NightHunter
Originally Posted by centralala
I have actually found some info from the biologist over this, Bill Gray. Long read. He throws out some really impressive numbers. The testing is over as of 2010 but the people of Barbour Co. were pleased enough to stay with it. I could see more counties wanting this if they were aware of all Bill Gray had to say. Example: They had a 500% reduction in harvest of 1.5 year old bucks and a 375% increase in 3.5 year old bucks. The number of man days required to harvest a 3.5 year old bucks was reduced significantly.

That all sounds great. Why hasn't it been published and publicized more?


Just being the devils dvocate here... but if it were published and talked about more would the public believe the numbers were true or take the stance directly above?


That's what happens when leadership has no credibility

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942732
11/01/19 10:21 PM
11/01/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
I couldn’t care less. Just an observation that many wouldn’t believe anything put out by ADCNR. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t produce info but a lot of folks take your stance.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: NightHunter] #2942859
11/02/19 06:12 AM
11/02/19 06:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline OP
14 point
centralala  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2009
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central ala,
Originally Posted by NightHunter
I couldn’t care less. Just an observation that many wouldn’t believe anything put out by ADCNR. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t produce info but a lot of folks take your stance.


You can look back what I've written in this thread to see I have no problems with the boots on the ground. I'll argue with the biologist/ GWs but will keep it on subject and not make it a personal attack. In the end we shake hands and walk away until next time. This "project" for the Biologist ended in 2010. For myself, I was a adamant supporter of all things DCNR. Then comes Chuck Sykes in 2012 (2 years after the end of the survey). He openly lies to the hunters (I'll let 2Dogs address that), appears to change from conservation of a resource to a business, makes personal attacks on landowners, senior citizens, handicapped, and active military, and has a "King over a bunch of peasants" attitude. Hes the boss and some (all??) in Montgomery follow him blindly. So, to answer your question, would I have accepted this info pre-Chuck Sykes?? ABSOLUTELY!! Accept it with Chuck Sykes? I would look where the biologist report had been altered in Montgomery to appease the King and be skeptical.

How many others have my attitude?? I don't know. What I do know the working relationship between sportsmen and the DCNR is the lowest I've ever seen. What I do know is Sykes has torn down a working relationship between the DCNR and the people in a few years that took others a lifetime to build. The Game Check numbers has spoken volumes on this relationship instead of actual number of deer killed.

So, would the people accept this data in 2010 from Bill Gray? I sure would have and that's all I can speak for. Heck, it's 2019, and since it's prior to 2012, I'm accepting it now.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942873
11/02/19 06:48 AM
11/02/19 06:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
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Holly Pond, AL
I understand all that and so understand it’s the job of the DCNR to provide that information but if the DCNR spent 2,500 man hours to produce a “high quality” deer report would you believe the data that was reported or would you toss it aside as something that couldn’t be trusted?

Yes or no?

I’m just curious.

Last edited by NightHunter; 11/02/19 06:49 AM.
Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942884
11/02/19 07:09 AM
11/02/19 07:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline OP
14 point
centralala  Offline OP
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C
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central ala,
No, I do not trust what comes out of Montgomery today.

Does that answer your question? Kind of a loaded question for a simple yes or no. I have no reason to NOT trust the biologist or GWs but I have no reason to trust.what comes out of Montgomery. So, if the biologist has to send the report to Montgomery (for approval?) before it reaches the sportsmen, NO, I would not trust it

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942894
11/02/19 07:25 AM
11/02/19 07:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline OP
14 point
centralala  Offline OP
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central ala,
Nighthunter, let me give you an example. Let's just say for arguments sake, it is proposed to extend the deer season in the North some by 10 days. Montgomery wants it extended but the biologist are against because of their on the ground experience. It gets extended. In a situation like this I will ALWAYS side with the biologist and quite simply can't trust what Montgomery is doing with OUR resources. So, the biologist request goes through Montgomery but it is NOT what is put out to the sportsmen. We have to trust it all or trust nothing coming out of Montgomery. We can't pick and choose.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942899
11/02/19 07:41 AM
11/02/19 07:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
That answers my question.

Unless things have changed 99% of information goes through or has to be approved by Montgomery.

To a finer point, knowing anything produced for widespread consumption has to be approved through Montgomery and we have established that you have no trust in that process, should the DCNR staff even bother with putting that kind of information together? Will it take a complete overhaul of Montgomery, meaning all the way down to district/program supervisors before you will take stock in anything produced by the DCNR?

Ultimately the Commissioner is in charge but he takes direction from the Governor. The governor takes heat from senators, congressmen, county/city officials and lobbyists.

Day to day DCNR operations are really handled by the Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs.

I guess my question is, how would you fix this? I mean real world answers. Not hire someone from ALDEER to clean house and take over. There’s a lot of moving parts and educational requirements to hold DCNR positions.

Where would you as a member of the hunting public suggest start to right the course.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942902
11/02/19 07:43 AM
11/02/19 07:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
NightHunter  Offline
10 point
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Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
Originally Posted by centralala
Nighthunter, let me give you an example. Let's just say for arguments sake, it is proposed to extend the deer season in the North some by 10 days. Montgomery wants it extended but the biologist are against because of their on the ground experience. It gets extended. In a situation like this I will ALWAYS side with the biologist and quite simply can't trust what Montgomery is doing with OUR resources. So, the biologist request goes through Montgomery but it is NOT what is put out to the sportsmen. We have to trust it all or trust nothing coming out of Montgomery. We can't pick and choose.


I won’t discuss details but I was in on that conversation. Let just say I wasn’t pleased😉

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2942928
11/02/19 08:14 AM
11/02/19 08:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline OP
14 point
centralala  Offline OP
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central ala,
No BS, fire Chuck Sykes. He might be an accomplished biologist but dealing with people he is horrible. An to top it off he puts his horrible people skills in writing.

Who to bring in?? I've always been torn on this with police departments replacing the chief. Do you hire within giving the employees a reason to work hard to try to achieve this goal? Or do you from the outside doing away with the good old boy network? Dang sure don't want someone in Montgomery that is a follower. Someone that has their own opinion, can support that opinion, debate it respectfully, and realize if their opinion isn't used its not personal

There would be mandatory quarterly meetings for GW and biologist. Not on the same day. Discuss any complaints with their job. Try to get consistent understanding of laws through out the state. Bring anything that may make their job better from uniform to training. happy employees make a good organization. But in the end they are to protect a resource.

There would be a monthly news letter where at least 1 law/rule will be discussed and interpreted for statewide consistency. Other subjects would vary.

Have a website listing people's names and charges who have been cited for game violations.

Encourage employees to get out and talk with the people. Have a laugh with them

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Out back] #2943303
11/02/19 06:16 PM
11/02/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,838
West Alabama
Ant67 Offline
10 point
Ant67  Offline
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Posts: 3,838
West Alabama
Originally Posted by Out back
Additional regulations can be enacted by any county. Your county commission has the legal authority to add or amend game regulations.

Duh hell???

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2944866
11/04/19 12:00 PM
11/04/19 12:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
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Posts: 9,111
B'ham
How bout this... Chucky needs to produce a report that says the more deer you shoot in a season... the less you have the following season.

As far as Barbour county's antler restrictions are concerned you save a spike by letting him walk and the next season it gets killed as a still immature deer it just has the beginnings of a decent rack.

That's about all there is to this whole thing.

Shoot small bucks and you won't have any big bucks. Ever. Don't shoot one.... and your neighbor will probably kill it for you as his/her 6th buck they have shot this season. Shoot a doe and have 2-3 less deer the next season and likely one less buck you will get to blast as a basket rack. Repeat the process.

Simple. Nobody should need a report to tell them what is common sense.

Chuck running around like a prick arguing over stuff... this is nothing more than a peeing match between someone who is about 100% Stupid and a whole lot of people (thousands) much more stupid than him.


Last edited by Goatkiller; 11/04/19 12:07 PM.

No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2946173
11/05/19 01:58 PM
11/05/19 01:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,569
Tuscaloosa
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hawndog Offline
8 point
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Tuscaloosa
Restrictions on bucks only means more people will shoot does. More does killed means less deer. Less deer means less bucks

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2946180
11/05/19 02:05 PM
11/05/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,566
Coosa County, AL
Coosa1 Offline
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Coosa1  Offline
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Posts: 4,566
Coosa County, AL
Unpopular opinion but it's mine so I'll voice it. I wish the state would go back to two weeks of doe days and set antler restrictions for the entire state. I'm tired of having to drive hours to find a decent population of deer to hunt. Damn coosa county rednecks shoot everything that moves and brag about killing all three of their bucks a year that might have a total of 50" of bone between all three of them.

Oh and get rid of that damn baiting bill while they're at it too!

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: hawndog] #2946197
11/05/19 02:22 PM
11/05/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
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USA
Originally Posted by hawndog
Restrictions on bucks only means more people will shoot does. More does killed means less deer. Less deer means less bucks


You won't convince anyone of this, I assure you. It's been gospel for 30+ years now. "Killing does is good."

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: NightHunter] #2946199
11/05/19 02:23 PM
11/05/19 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
M
mman Offline
8 point
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Originally Posted by NightHunter
That answers my question.

Unless things have changed 99% of information goes through or has to be approved by Montgomery.

To a finer point, knowing anything produced for widespread consumption has to be approved through Montgomery and we have established that you have no trust in that process, should the DCNR staff even bother with putting that kind of information together? Will it take a complete overhaul of Montgomery, meaning all the way down to district/program supervisors before you will take stock in anything produced by the DCNR?

Ultimately the Commissioner is in charge but he takes direction from the Governor. The governor takes heat from senators, congressmen, county/city officials and lobbyists.

Day to day DCNR operations are really handled by the Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs.

I guess my question is, how would you fix this? I mean real world answers. Not hire someone from ALDEER to clean house and take over. There’s a lot of moving parts and educational requirements to hold DCNR positions.

Where would you as a member of the hunting public suggest start to right the course.


I would be more apt to believe raw numbers and draw my own conclusions than what I read in a report.

The only way I know to fix trust issues is total honesty over a long period of time, period.

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Coosa1] #2946200
11/05/19 02:25 PM
11/05/19 02:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
R
Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
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R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
Originally Posted by Coosa1
Unpopular opinion but it's mine so I'll voice it. I wish the state would go back to two weeks of doe days and set antler restrictions for the entire state. I'm tired of having to drive hours to find a decent population of deer to hunt. Damn coosa county rednecks shoot everything that moves and brag about killing all three of their bucks a year that might have a total of 50" of bone between all three of them.

Oh and get rid of that damn baiting bill while they're at it too!


You have to drive hours from Coosa County? Drive south or southeast just a little bit and you've got the best hunting in the state. It may not be in your literal back yard, but it's not like you're in Marshall county or something.

Last edited by Remington270; 11/05/19 02:25 PM.
Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: Coosa1] #2946842
11/05/19 10:17 PM
11/05/19 10:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
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J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
Originally Posted by Coosa1
Unpopular opinion but it's mine so I'll voice it. I wish the state would go back to two weeks of doe days and set antler restrictions for the entire state. I'm tired of having to drive hours to find a decent population of deer to hunt. Damn coosa county rednecks shoot everything that moves and brag about killing all three of their bucks a year that might have a total of 50" of bone between all three of them.

Oh and get rid of that damn baiting bill while they're at it too!

It’s not as unpopular as you think. In the part of Fayette County I hunt I would love a much reduced doe season. (We have only killed 2 in 5 years on our lease. Our population, this year, is actually really good. Just 2-3 years of reducing doe days would make a huge difference in some parts of the state

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2946870
11/05/19 10:28 PM
11/05/19 10:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,449
Central Alabama
MC21 Offline
10 point
MC21  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,449
Central Alabama
Antler restrictions stats wide would be stupid. Doe restrictions would make a little more sense I guess

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2946998
11/06/19 01:05 AM
11/06/19 01:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,449
Central Alabama
MC21 Offline
10 point
MC21  Offline
10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,449
Central Alabama



This is why I say antler restrictions are stupid

Re: Barbour Co. experiment?? [Re: centralala] #2950157
11/08/19 09:24 PM
11/08/19 09:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 554
Clayton,Al
Chickenrig Offline
4 point
Chickenrig  Offline
4 point
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 554
Clayton,Al
Overland
I live between Texasville and Clayton
The Boyd store is now closed up . The old man had a stroke awhile back and his boy put up chicken houses . You are right though . Some dam fine bucks are on that wall of memories. Johnny would not put up the current years bucks He would post them up the year after harvest. There’s still some bigguns runnin around here ,You just have to be patient and let the younguns walk.

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