The antler restriction thats different than the rest of the State has been going on at my best guess about 10 years. Should be plenty of data. Has there ever been anything put in print so the hunters of Alabama can see the data points and conclusion to this point? Has it changed anything? How long will it continue? Is it a waste of time or something other counties might consider?

That's a great point. I have thought about that. I think the data on antler restriction is pretty weak, and may even be self-defeating/counter productive, from everything I've heard and read.

Yeah, we helped pay for it. Are we out of the equation
now?

Do not know of any data that has originated from the Barbour County restriction. Rules and regulations keep honest people honest. Road hunters, night hunters and the folks that say "can't tell me what to do" are going to keep killing any buck they see and just say "killed this spike in Pike County". From my personal experience, we had two clubs that bordered us that would shoot pretty much every buck they saw until the reg was put in place. They are honest guys so they followed rules and about two years later we began to see an increase in the number of bucks older bucks.

My thoughts are same as Overland I hunt down there enough to make a judgement. Plenty of dishonest groups around there as well, It always depends on your neighbors.

Floor at the deer processor is typically full of small racked bucks. It might be saving some spikes but that is about it. Around the WMA a 2-3 year old will meet the antler restrictions so making it to 4-5 years is still almost an impossibility there are a lot of hunters.

The numbers are the numbers. It's OK for an experiment to not work for whatever reason. Just say we accomplished nothing and move on. It happens. No big deal. At least you tried.
Sooooo, why does the antler restriction carry on??

Glad it is in place and would hate to see it rescinded. To my knowledge it has not hurt those wanting to kill deer and has produced an upside for those of us that want a better opportunity at seeing a mature buck. Wish they would adopt it in Morgan County.

Not a fan of antler restrictions being imposed by the state. If a club wants to do it that's great but the way antler restrictions work ends up getting 2 -3 year old bucks shot, which are still immature deer.

I shot my share of youngins when I was a young hunter, but I grew outta that. I like to watch em cause they're entertaining when young bucks are chasin does. I've almost started laughing a few times over the years watching young bucks. Like watching teenage boys chasin tail. But I have a pile of those antlers in my basement, and I'm not looking to make it bigger. If I want some venison. I'll pop a doe.

Additional regulations can be enacted by any county. Your county commission has the legal authority to add or amend game regulations.

Thread from 2012 about the same topic - http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=288842

According to it, the county antler restriction was about 4-5 years old in 2012 meaning it probably was approved in 2006 or so when the "Let's save our bucks with a 3-buck limit because no one needs more than three!" mandate was hammered in.

But it says the WMA antler restriction was 10 years old, meaning Barbour WMA went on the restriction in about 2002 or so.

Which means the county has had some kind of antler mandates for about or almost 20 years, initially pushed for by the residents there.


How's the antler growth been in that time? Lot of mature breeders in the population and 150s and 160s coming out of the county? Not kidding, b/c I haven't kept up with it. Are the bucks bigger and more mature thanks to the regulations?

Barbour County's antler regulations were asked for by the residents, just like how the voters in Randolph County in the early 1990s got dog deer hunting ended by getting it on the ballot and voting to ban it.


As for the WMAs, the state can do whatever it believes is best on them.

calling Matt Brock....anything you can share?

There have been some studs come out of Barbour but I think that's traditionally been the case even before the antler restrictions. The restrictions were put in place mainly as a result of there being a large presence of private landowners in the county and them getting tired of the folks leasing land blasting the hell out of everything. I'm not condoning either side of the argument here just stating what happened. The private landowners got together and voted the antler restrictions in to keep the "Florida hunters" and others from shooting up all the small bucks. I've got a good friend that takes care of the management area....I'll ask him next time we talk and see if anything has ever been done from a data standpoint. I know they have some good deer on the management area but again I think that's just about always been the case. More than likely if it did anything it increased the number of 3 year old bucks being killed. The ones that would have been killed as 1-2 years olds just lived a little longer. This may or may not have resulted in more bucks making it to maturity

I would say not really...all the antler restrictions have done is move the needle one year. There are more small racked bucks, yes. Next in line to take a bullet.

I don't consider it completely unsucessful but with the ability to shoot a "deer" at any time plenty of immature deer still get shot including many button bucks, etc.

Have you seen more mature bucks?

Is there statistical data in the county to support the theory of more mature bucks with APRs or season limits?

Anecdotal is fine. "Aw, you know if you don't shoot them they'll get older." Yep. Sounds good. But what do the processors or GameCheck show (even in GC's limited time) or the WMA info from Barbour WMA?

Because after 20ish years, Barbour should be crawling with mature bucks in the 150+ range and younger, healthier bucks.

Thanks. I think it's a fascinating glance at the hunter-bucks-mandates situation.

You guys do know that all of the harvest information for our WMA's is easily accessible online?

The answer is a simple yes based on the collected data to Clem's question. More mature bucks being killed, less young ones taken, better age structure overall. Look at the data. There is a reason these antler restrictions are now in place at other WMA's like oakmulgee now, someone thinks it works and they have the data to back it up.

FYI the "qdm" restrictions in Barbour started in 99-00 according to the data set.

wma

At first glance I notice that 1) The restrictions have moved the needle just like stated from 1 year olds being killed to 2-3 year olds being killed. It doesn't give info for 5-6 year old though. That's what I'd be curious to see. Did it result in more mature bucks being killed or just move the same harvest up one age class?....2) I also notice there seems to be a big decline in hunter participation over the years...just sayin

Clem - Yes, since the change I have seen many more mature bucks than I did before the restrictions. Unfortunately, 150+ bucks aren't behind every tree, and no one ever thought they would be. As I mentioned in my original response, "my personal experience" so yes it is anecdotal. I do now remember that it was pushed for by Barbour County landowners and in the past decade I have not heard one landowner or hunter that I come in contact with complain about it.

As for the size of the bucks in my particular area, during that 20 year period, several factors changed. (1) Lots of row crop was converted to pines (2) deer population increased significantly (3) road/night hunting increased significantly. During the early 90's we had some sure enough bruisers come out of the area where I hunt, but you could sit in a stand for three days straight and only see two deer. We still have great deer that come out of the area, but a lot of the land if privately owned and a lot of folks don't talk about the big deer they have taken. We also have a strain of native AL deer which don't carry a lot of mass.

Last thing, our farm/club has been in existence for almost 50 years and we have kept detailed records since mid-90s. The number of large deer killed each year has increased over the past 20 and actually decreased as we have all become more selective.

For the conversation - A typical 4.5 y/o buck in my area will weigh on average 180 lbs, be a straight 8 with shorter brow tines and probably be about 17-18 inches. A nice deer by anyone's standards but its not going to set the record books on fire. Deer that we see that push the 140+ range usually have 10 points, 18-22 inches wide and lots of mass. They exist, they just don't want to cooperate.