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Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933158
10/22/19 08:25 PM
10/22/19 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,122
Georgia and Missouri
Semo Online content
12 point
Semo  Online Content
12 point
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 5,122
Georgia and Missouri
you are right that hunters haven't changed. when the seasons opened back up in the mid 1940's in parts of the Midwest you had people shooting donkeys (and trying to check them in) and crazy stuff like that. most hunters in the current era are leisure hunters and rarely have skills. My grandparents (who guided from the 1st season in 1944- to the late 70's had all kinds of guys (10-15 a year) coming in and most had no clue. times haven't changed.

I have kind of been messing in this thread (playing devil's advocate), but I do really think some deep ethical considerations are at play. It is right that as a general group "hunters" can be a term used that doesn't signify skill level. I'm sure dog tracking actually improves the ethics of using resources to locate game. However, the hunter does bare that some responsibility to learn how to improve his odds of retrieval.

hell, I've never sat in a shooting house either. so don't get me started on that. haha

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933179
10/22/19 08:33 PM
10/22/19 08:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Big Game Hunter Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Big Game Hunter  Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Dude, calm down.

Here’s the short of it.

People get on Facebook, while still in the stand, they ask if anyone knows a dog guy because they shot a doe, buck, Sasquatch, painter, etc prior to ever getting out of the phucking tree. They don’t go look at their arrow, they don’t go look for blood, they just call a dog in.

Are you realty ok with that?

Like I said; I may have to call you this weekend but it will be AFTER I go look at my arrow to confirm that I hit the damn deer.


IKNOWMYPHUCKINGCODEDAMMITYOUDICKHEAD!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933288
10/22/19 09:27 PM
10/22/19 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Big Game Hunter
Dude, calm down.

Here’s the short of it.

People get on Facebook, while still in the stand, they ask if anyone knows a dog guy because they shot a doe, buck, Sasquatch, painter, etc prior to ever getting out of the phucking tree. They don’t go look at their arrow, they don’t go look for blood, they just call a dog in.

Are you realty ok with that?

Like I said; I may have to call you this weekend but it will be AFTER I go look at my arrow to confirm that I hit the damn deer.


I’m actually very calm…..I’m a pretty even keeled person….I’m just persistent as hell. grin

To answer your question though…..Yes, I’m great with that……Why?.....Because WAY more deer would probably be recovered if folks did just that. The fact is that most hunters out there don’t really know how to track and never have. What y’all are calling “Do everything possible by traditional means first”…..usually equates to…..”Do everything possible to phuck it up first before calling for a tracking dog”……The reason why I know that there are very few folks taking bad shots with a tracking dog in mind is because the majority of the calls I get sound like this…..

“We gave him at least 30 minutes before tracking but jumped him up out of bed at 200 yards….We backed out for another 30 min to an hour and went back in to look again but lost blood about 100-200 yards past where we jumped him…..or my favorite….we tracked him for 800 more yards before finally running out of blood…..(They might as well have said we pushed him for another 800 yards)……Me and 2 other guys walked the area out pretty well but I just can’t find him anywhere…..You think the dog might be able to find him now???”

This is the reality of it……If most of these folks would call an experienced tracker before doing anything then they would at least get some sound advice on how to proceed and it would likely turn the above story into….”We found him in his bed 200 yards from the hit site!”. I just had one such track a few days ago. I was already at the hunting club tracking when a lady shot a nice buck about an hour before dark. You could tell they were amped up to go find him that evening but I convinced them to give it time. As a result the buck was 180 yards from the hit site with an arrow in his guts instead of two properties over sunk in a river or pond, etc….

So yeah….I don't mind at all if folks call before doing anything.

Last edited by CNC; 10/22/19 09:34 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933298
10/22/19 09:35 PM
10/22/19 09:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Big Game Hunter Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Big Game Hunter  Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
What you are calling a tracker I call a dog handler. Tomato....Tomato.

Simple question for you and I no way am I questioning “your” abilities. (Not your dog)

Can you find a wounded deer?


IKNOWMYPHUCKINGCODEDAMMITYOUDICKHEAD!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933328
10/22/19 09:59 PM
10/22/19 09:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Big Game Hunter
What you are calling a tracker I call a dog handler. Tomato....Tomato.

Simple question for you and I no way am I questioning “your” abilities. (Not your dog)

Can you find a wounded deer?


I’m decent at it but I wouldn’t call myself a great tracker by any means. I don’t have stellar 20/20 vision….I’m “far sided” and I think that’s what hinders me the most. People tend to spot blood before I do. I’ve killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 ish deer though so I’ve had a good amount of practice doing it on my own without a dog. I've lost a few over the years but not too too many. One of the reasons I got a tracking dog to begin with was because I lost a really nice one that I straight up gut shot and couldn't find. There just wasn't anything to follow...only a big wad of hair.

Now as far as “finding deer” is concerned…..I consider myself to be far more than just a dog handler. After you’ve tracked for a few seasons you start learning that there’s far more to it than just turning the dog loose and following him. It’s a team effort and you learn to use all the tools that are available at your disposal. I use my GPS, my phone for aerials, the dogs, the hunter and friends…..and most importantly I use my experience of having tracked four or five hundred deer now. I have a good idea of where they typically like to go and how they typically react to certain shot. I can tell you with pretty good accuracy where most folks have hit a deer just by what they tell me they found at the hit site and how the deer reacted, etc. I'm using a whole different approach to finding them than getting down on your hands and knees looking for broke sticks. I feel like I’m getting pretty dang good at it now but I still have room for improvement definitely.


Last edited by CNC; 10/22/19 10:06 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2933337
10/22/19 10:07 PM
10/22/19 10:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Big Game Hunter Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Big Game Hunter  Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Good deal. I Was hoping that would be your response.


IKNOWMYPHUCKINGCODEDAMMITYOUDICKHEAD!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: CNC] #2934166
10/23/19 08:42 PM
10/23/19 08:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
Originally Posted by CNC
Was there ever really a point where hunting was full of great trackers? I'm talking about real trackers like you're describing. I'm guessing if there was it was a looooong time ago and it died well before any dog came on the scene. I'm 40 and I don't know if I've ever seen any real trackers. What y'all are talking about has always been a rare breed....or at least it has been for quite a while


In my hunting bunch, we can all track. I’ve personally tracked 50+. When I was first starting to really hunt Dad had me to track any deer that was shot, from the easy ones with a great blood trail to the gut shot deer you had to get on your hands and knees and look for stomach contents. Years ago I started shooting bucks with a high shoulder shot as it typically anchors them with 15’. I don’t shoot many deer anymore but shot 4 last year (1 buck-high shoulder-15 yard recovery and 3 does all with headshots off a Caldwell front rest and rear sand bag).

What I see as the biggest issue are hunters taking unethical shots (bad angles, wrong bullets, too far for capabilities, etc) and justifying it because they can call in a dog.

All that being said I might need a dog the next time I hunt but I will not take a marginal shot.

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934295
10/23/19 10:44 PM
10/23/19 10:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,248
Alabama
Jakethesnake Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Jakethesnake  Offline
The Flippin’ Idiot That Could Care Less
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 6,248
Alabama
Only reason why we see more trackin jobs is from them queer 6.5s. Stirin the pot boys!

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934302
10/23/19 11:01 PM
10/23/19 11:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,806
Banana Republic
jb20 Online shocked
Old Mossy Horns
jb20  Online Shocked
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,806
Banana Republic
This thread reminds of the show mantracker for some reason..i really liked that show he was good...


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934318
10/24/19 12:41 AM
10/24/19 12:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
Frankie Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Frankie  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,742
Elmore County
BGH, Im gonna step in the other pile with you .

HUNTERS ONLY KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT . Putting a kid in a blind over a green field ain't teaching him hunting .

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934385
10/24/19 07:38 AM
10/24/19 07:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Big Game Hunter Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Big Game Hunter  Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
CNC. I’m curious if you have kept up with what calibers these deer you track are shot with?


IKNOWMYPHUCKINGCODEDAMMITYOUDICKHEAD!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934392
10/24/19 07:47 AM
10/24/19 07:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
BPI  Offline
14 point
B
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
My neighbor has a German Shepherd I get when I shoot a deer and it runs into the thicket that surrounds my food plots. Saves me a lot of briars. I used to track on all fours till 10 p.m. and used to consider myself ok at it... now I can't see crap , especially at night so I just go get that dog. He's awesome.

And it's just my opinion but I think overall woodsmanship has probably improved over the last 30 years, and I'm not talking about only tracking. But setting up on a deer, when and where to get one, patterning, etc. There is just so much more info out there on places just like this one. Great resources for people to educate themselves while hunting. Again, my opinion.

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Jakethesnake] #2934394
10/24/19 07:48 AM
10/24/19 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
B
BPI Offline
14 point
BPI  Offline
14 point
B
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,419
Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
Only reason why we see more trackin jobs is from them queer 6.5s. Stirin the pot boys!


No deer ever shot with w creed has ever had to be tracked. It's soul was taken the moment the finger touched the trigger. You should know this.

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934427
10/24/19 08:37 AM
10/24/19 08:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
Originally Posted by Big Game Hunter
CNC. I’m curious if you have kept up with what calibers these deer you track are shot with?



I’d put money on more tracks with larger calibers than say a .243. You know the whole I shoot a MAGNUM because it kills them no matter where I shoot them people.

Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934434
10/24/19 08:42 AM
10/24/19 08:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
Big Game Hunter Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Big Game Hunter  Offline OP
Doesn’t Know His Code
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,230
Oxford, AL. USA
I betting on either a 7mm mag or a 300 win mag.

From my experience guiding/outfitting/hunting in general; some folks have the opinion that if you hit them anywhere in the body with the before mentioned cartridges they will die.

You can kill an elephant with a .22 LR if you hit him right......


IKNOWMYPHUCKINGCODEDAMMITYOUDICKHEAD!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934478
10/24/19 09:36 AM
10/24/19 09:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Pretty much any and everything……I get just as many calls from people shooting 300’s and 7 mags as I do from folks with .243’s and other smaller calibers…..Buck fever and rushed shots is what I attribute most of it to…..When folks are off by over a foot on a shot less than 100 yards then to me that’s all about just being able to stay under control in an intense moment. People’s chit just comes apart and it happens like this…..”There he is!!!....Booooom!!!”

Last edited by CNC; 10/24/19 09:36 AM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934513
10/24/19 10:44 AM
10/24/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Got a call a little bit ago from a hunter who said the he had a good one come in on him right at daybreak this morning. He yanked his shot a little and hit it back in the guts. When he got down and found his arrow it was coated in slime so he backed straight out and called us to help……We’re going this afternoon to try to find it…..

See I have no issue whatsoever with this…..It’s the best chance most of these folks have to recover deer like these. There’s no need in trying to hold everyone to some imaginary standard that hunters had never reached to begin with.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: CNC] #2934537
10/24/19 11:20 AM
10/24/19 11:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,132
Central Alabama
Cuz-Pat Offline
Booner
Cuz-Pat  Offline
Booner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,132
Central Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
Got a call a little bit ago from a hunter who said the he had a good one come in on him right at daybreak this morning. He yanked his shot a little and hit it back in the guts. When he got down and found his arrow it was coated in slime so he backed straight out and called us to help……We’re going this afternoon to try to find it…..

See I have no issue whatsoever with this…..It’s the best chance most of these folks have to recover deer like these. There’s no need in trying to hold everyone to some imaginary standard that hunters had never reached to begin with.


Why should or why would you have an issue with it?

The guy called you. You will go and make an attempt at finding his deer. You get to take Otis and Shelby along and work them. You are doing something that you enjoy doing, your dogs are getting more experience, you are gaining knowledge and experience doing it, and you will get paid a fee for doing something that you enjoy doing.

I don't see a problem here.

Can someone help me out and point out the issue to me?

Oh, wait, we were talking about why folks call out tracking dogs right after the shot, nowadays, right?

Maybe they do so because it's their right, their privilege, their choice, their money, and it really ain't none of my business whether they lack tracking skills, are plain out lazy, or whatever.

Hope you and your teammates find the man's deer.

I'm looking forward to reading the story this evening. thumbup


Cuz-Pat

Patton's European Mounts
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Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934578
10/24/19 12:13 PM
10/24/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
Thanks Cuz……I feel pretty good about this one…..

I actually think the use of tracking dogs has been a great thing for educating the general hunting public on what to do after the shot to improve their chances of finding their deer. I’ve gone on numerous tracks now where the folks would call me up and say something to effect of….”Hey I remember when you were out here last time we talked about backing out if there was any doubt on the shot…..I’m pretty sure I gut shot this one so we just eased out and came straight on back to camp.”…..Even here on the forum if you’ll watch when someone shoots a deer folks will start trying to get them to “Give it time!!!!!....Give it time!!!!”…..My point is that I’m finding that the hunting public is slowly coming around to making better decisions after the shots as a result of these stories on social media. There’s no better folks to help educate them on it than trackers.

Now…..if you want to talk about one of MY pet peeves in all of this……It’s when I see someone post up saying they put a bad shot on a deer about 30 min ago and a tracker chimes in with “I’m loading the dogs up now!...I’m on my way!!!”……and they make the same dang mistake that we’re trying to get the hunters to stop making with rushing in too quick…..It never fails….they come back with a story of “We jumped him and chased him for 2 miles but never got him to bay up……I try not to say anything though…..errbody got to learn somehow I guess.

Last edited by CNC; 10/24/19 12:20 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Probably about to piss some folks off [Re: Big Game Hunter] #2934640
10/24/19 01:59 PM
10/24/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
The ultimate answer is that people don't practice shooting because there is a lack of places to shoot in this State even though we have some rifle ranges on our WMA's I would say they are under utilized based on the numbers of hunters we have. It would take me the better part of a day to go to a public range and shoot leaving my house.

The other part of it is that people just don't think they need to practice because they are hunting food plots and blasting does. They just think.... I can blast a doe today and there is nothing but air between me and the deer. This is going to be an easy 150 yard shot.... Then....by blind arse luck.... they see a good buck and shoot it in the arse having not practiced or prepared for the shot.

They would have shot the doe in the arse too the only difference being the tracking dog does not get the phone call. They just stand around with their finger in their nose saying well I'll be derned that bullet musta blew up on the deer and I lost it. Shoulda shot super duper bonded bullet like I read on ALDeer.

Last edited by Goatkiller; 10/24/19 02:01 PM.

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