Hey guys- been a while. I've escaped from Texas and made it back to Alabama.

A couple of years ago I finally bit the cannelured bullet and had one of my Marlins rechambered to .30-30 AI.

There's a lot I could say about it- but the bottom line is, I have burned a LOT of powder and still have not found The Load for it. Even for an experienced handloader, wildcats are a different world: so many variables, little established data, and in the case of Ackley cartridges, the normal pressure signs we all look for don't exist-- at least not easily seen.

Anybody here have a .30-30 AI they'd care to talk about?

I was wondering what happened to you. What kind of improvement you expecting over a regular ol 30/30?

Have you done a comparison of the case capacity of the improved vs standard case? You will need to use fired cases to perform a water capacity comparison. I'm not very familiar with the 30 30, but I would think that your velocity gains will be negligible. If a standard case holds 40 gr water with a bullet seated and the improved case holds 42 gr, you have a 5% increase in capacity. This will only yield about a 1-2% increase in velocity, at the same pressure. This is where many folks go wrong with improved cartridges. Without traditional pressure signs, they ignore basic rules of physics and push pressures beyond safe operating limits in search of velocity.

Hey! Yeah, did 4 1/2 years in Texas, though I came back here to hunt. Since I was doing all my shooting/testing at a range south of Fort Worth, I didn't post any of that here.

Well, what I expected-- Ackley showed up to 300 fps increase over .30-30 Win loads. I didn't expect that, but wondered just what it would do within reasonable limits. So in a 20" barrel:

Before the conversion, I was seeing 2514 fps avg with the Speer 150 FN with a very accurate load of LVR-- 1/2 grain under the published max for .30-30 Win.

With a max book load of LVR, the Hornady 160 FTX averaged 2547 fps, but the accuracy was not there-- Neither of my Marlins did well with the 160 FTX.


LVR wasn't around when P.O. Ackley developed this round, and he didn't give us much data. He listed 36.0-38.0 of 3031, nothing in between. So I went to work with several medium-burning powders. I was not looking to gain 300 fps over these handloads (!!) but wanted to see just how this would play out.

In my testing, I:

1. Meticulously mic'd case head expansion.
2. Inspected every case as it was fired.
3. Sometimes knew immediately a load was too hot, and brought those home and pulled the bullets and reclaimed the powder.
4. Always started in the .30-30 Win range and worked up in increments.


Some things I found:

1. LVR powder is a game-changer for the .30-30 Win. I have loaded 3031, 4198, H335, Re7, 748, and some others in .30-30 or nearly 40 years now.

2. Ackley's load of 38.0 IMR 3031 is just nuts. At 36.0 my velocites were no better than .30-30 Win, I started getting slightly sticky extraction at 36.5 but no flattened primer, no excessive case head expansion-- and One Round of 38.0 totally locked up the action. I did not test that any further.

3. Even at that- once I got the fired case out, the case looked OK-- so, you can be way over pressure without any of the usual signs we look for, and that can be a very fine line.

4. Even though LVR is a great powder, it appears to be very specialized-- it does not like being pushed much. You can go from no better velocities than .30-30 Win handloads to being too hot in 0.5 grains.


A couple of conclusions I have drawn so far:

1. I think it's possible to get around 200-250 fps over factory loads safely in the AI. I don't think it's reasonable to expect to see that much gain over the faster handloads. Not safely.

2. Some people may not like this, but: Though the AI is very interesting and I have more work to do with it, if a shooter can see 2500+ safely and accurately with handloads using Hodgdon Leverevolution in published .30-30 Win data-- I don't think the AI conversion is worth it, unless you just really want one (which I did).

Haven't done a water case capacity comparison. I did do that with R-P, WW, and Federal cases with the .30-30 Win cases a while back. Can't find those notes.

Where's JohnnyLoco?

Well, nuts. No takers on the .30-30 AI, then.

Aight.

I worked with a Contender carbine years ago, but I don't think I could tell you anything you don't already know. I read some of P O Ackley's info and wanted to see if it would really reach 2700 with a 150g bullet. It actually got pretty close with his 3031 recipe, but it showed pressure signs and I couldn't use it. I settled on a load that averaged 2560, but I can't remember what I used. I could probably find it if you are really interested, but I recall it being a 2" load and there are likely better recipes.

The rechambering is definitely worth doing because the AI loads just look so cool.

Good luck with it.

Not knowledgeable about the 30 30, but I think your expecting way too much with the AI conversion to gain 200 FPS at safe pressure levels. That's roughly an 8% gain in velocity over the standard, and using the 4 to 1 rule, that would equate to an approximate 30% increase in case capacity. You may get it, but your pressure will be well beyond the pressure limits of a 30 30.

Trade it for the .308 Marlin Express. Or do the .307 Winchester..

Thanks, all.

As for the 200 fps increase with safe pressure levels-- you can get that over many 150 and 170 gr factory loads already, loading with LVR- and staying well within limits for the .30-30 Win. With conventional powders, maybe not.

In my non-AI .30-30 Marlin, my most accurate load with the Hornady 160 FTX last weekend averaged 2456.4- that's a 160 gr bullet in a 20" barrel. Considering most 150 gr factory loads are slower than that, and 170 gr loads are considerably slower than that-- and this is using Hornady's published data for the .30-30 Win-- and was not even a max load.

Now getting 200 fps over -that- can't be done without going way over pressure, no.

Looking back at my notes of my .30-30 NEF single shot (before it r-u-n-n-o-f-t in a d-i-v-o-r-c-e), the max book load of 3031 for a 125 Ballistic Tip for a Contender gave me 2673 average in a 22" barrel-- and that was a fine deer load. The Sierra 125 HP is accurate in my AI Marlin, but even Sierra advises not to push it over 2600 fps.

So... the 130 Speer is a good candidate for the AI- but the more accurate loads in my notes averaged just under 2700, which is not a worthwhile gain.

Anyway-- I am not one of those trying to make the ol' .30 WCF into a .308.

Ha, Dave, I have a Ruger American Predator in .308 that is handier than any of the Marlin 336s I have known!

How's your 260 doing these days?

And Preacher- yeah, the rounds do look cool

I think a 7-30 Waters Improved (7-30 Bullberry) would be cool and different.

It would! You wouldn't have the same bullet selection, but yeah! I'll be glad to sit back and read someone else's trials and tribulations with it though

The 7x30 Waters has already increased the case capacity of the parent cartridge, so I don't think there is much gain left for going AI with it. I could be wrong, but I've hunted a lot with a 14" Contender in 7x30 and always thought it made that length barrel about as efficient as possible, at least with the powders available then. But if buying a Bulberry, no reason not to go with AI.

For deer hunting with Contenders, I thought the best rounds I used was 30-30AI for a 22", 7x30 Waters for a 14", and 30 Herrett for a 10". All use the same parent case, so all have a rim and are good choices for a break action gun.