I manage for mature bucks and we dont shoot anything we are not going to mount. I picked up 200 acres adjoining me this year and I paid the landowner $3 more per acre than what it was actually worth. I did it to keep some yahoo from picking up that tiny little 200 acre piece and putting out a couple corn piles and killing 5 or 6 of the good 2 and 3 year old bucks that we are letting grow. I dang sure didnt need the additional acreage but it was worth it to us to overpay, by $600 on that particular piece, just to get the previous corn hunting, shoot anything group gone and to keep someone else from coming in and negatively impacting what we and our other 3 large landholding neighbors are trying to do.

It sucks for sure but more and more people are doing it and it is becoming the norm. The shoot everything crowd says they dont want to trophy hunt but they would be the first ones to ride a trophy all over town in their truck bragging about it if they did manage to kill a good one. It is my opinion that most dont manage or trophy hunt because they cannot afford to tie up large parcels and the expense that comes with managing the land and wildlife. People complain about lease prices and I completely understand and hate the current high rates/acre but the shoot anything group is hurting themselves more than anything or anyone else. Guys that control large acreages and have the money to do it are not going to just sit back and let a bunch of "shoot every buck they see" guys surround their highly managed properties and kill all the deer they are passing. It ends up creating a bad situation of limited opportunity for the guys that just want to hunt, but when the normal guy doing what he wants to do starts to prohibit other guys from doing what they want and are trying to do, someone will always end up as the odd man out. It doesn't have to be that way. The unfortunate thing is that if the shoot anything guys would back off on all the killing, they would have some great opportunities to enjoy some prime hunting that they otherwise could not afford, due to the prohibitive cost of obtaining a 2000-5000 acre lease. They could piggyback off the larger landowners efforts and enjoy the same quality of hunting on these smaller, more affordable 100 and 200 acre parcels, but to do so, they would/will have to adjust their mindset to fit in.

This is just my opinion but I can promise you that I honestly think that I could take a shoot anything guy, that is used to hunting small un-managed property and seeing maybe 2 or 3 young rack bucks a year and killing them all, for a couple weekends in a row on my place and sit with him and allow him to see multiple 3 yr old rack bucks (in all probability, bigger bucks than he has ever killed) feeding in a field in the broad daylight and Id' be willing to bet I could convert him and he would agree to get on our program and I could let him have that 200 acres. IMO, the problem is that most people have not experienced hunting on a highly managed property where it is really easy to see multiple 1-3yr or even 4 yr old bucks on a regular basis. It seems unattainable for them and it will continue to be as long as they maintain their I'm gonna kill 20 deer a year attitude.

And before someone brings it up, kids get multiple passes on bucks as they work their way up to the same shooting standards that the adults have. You cant expect a young kid, who's only killed a few does, to pass up 100-110" 2 and 3 yr old 8 points while waiting on a 5 yr old and we dont make them.

There's got to be come common ground somewhere but everyone is too selfish to find it without a bunch of state imposed rules. GA has a complete county that is trophy managed. When it was first proposed, there was a huge backlash from the shoot any buck crowd. Now those same guys are the biggest proponents of letting young deer walk and everyone, large landowners and small are reaping the benefits of quality herd management and loving it. But they absolutely squalled like babies and were kicking and screaming those first couple years. Look up Dooley and Macon counties. By the way, GA has a 2 buck and 10 doe limit. Statewide, no exceptions. The length of their firearms season is similar to ours with the only difference being you can only kill 12 deer a year in GA whereas you can kill 121 in Bama. Go figure why our hunting is suffering.

I manage for mature bucks and we dont shoot anything we are not going to mount. I picked up 200 acres adjoining me this year and I paid the landowner $3 more per acre than what it was actually worth. I didn't offer the higher price but that's what the landowner said he had to have. I did it to keep some yahoo from picking up that little 200 acre piece and putting out a couple corn piles and killing 5 or 6 of the good 2 and 3 year old bucks that we are letting grow. I dang sure didnt need the additional acreage but it was worth it to us to overpay, by $600 on that particular piece, just to get the previous corn hunting, shoot anything group gone and to keep someone else from coming in and negatively impacting what we and our other 3 large landholding neighbors are trying to do. I wouldn't care if the neighbor guy killed a few young bucks here or there but when the 3 of them are shooting every basket rack 6 or 8 they see (8-10 and prob more each year) along with any doe that stands still long enough to get shot, and then every deer we kill on that side of our place is chock full of corn, my good neighbors and I can fix that problem.

It sucks for sure but more and more people are doing it and it is becoming the norm. The shoot everything crowd says they dont want to trophy hunt but they would be the first ones to ride a trophy all over town in their truck bragging about it if they did manage to kill a good one. It is my opinion that most dont manage or trophy hunt because they cannot afford to tie up large parcels and the expense that comes with managing the land and wildlife and I understand that. They make comments like " rich guys a ruining deer hunting". Maybe they should take a step back and look in the mirror. There is always someone with more money and willing to pay it no matter how wealthy or poor your group may be. People complain about lease prices and I completely understand and hate the current high rates/acre but the shoot anything group is hurting themselves as much or more than anything else.


Guys that control large acreages and have the money to do it are not going to just sit back and let a bunch of "shoot every buck they see" guys surround their highly managed properties and kill all the deer they are passing. It ends up creating a bad situation of limited opportunity for the guys that just want to hunt, but when the shoot everything guy doing what he wants to do, starts to prohibit mgmt guys from doing what they want and are trying to do, someone will always end up as the odd man out. It doesn't have to be that way. The unfortunate thing is that if the shoot anything guys would just back off on all the killing, just a little bit, they might have some great opportunities to enjoy some prime hunting that they otherwise might not be able afford, due to the sometimes prohibitive cost of obtaining a managing a 2000-5000 acre lease. A lot of people don't know or have access to 10-15 like minded guys to go in with them on a big lease. They could piggyback off the larger landowners mgmt efforts and enjoy the same quality of hunting on these smaller, more affordable 100 and 200 acre parcels, but to do so, they would/will have to adjust their mindset to fit in. I certainly don't mind a guy killing a young buck if that floats his boat but IMO there's no valid reason to try to kill every rack buck you see.

This is just my opinion but I can promise you that I honestly think that I could take a shoot anything guy, that is used to hunting small un-managed property and seeing maybe 2 or 3 young rack bucks a year and killing them all, for a couple weekends in a row on my place and sit with him and allow him to see multiple 3 yr old rack bucks (in all probability, bigger bucks than he has ever killed) feeding in a field in the broad daylight and Id' be willing to bet after seeing what is possible with just a little restraint, I could convert him and he would agree to get on our program and I could let him have that 200 acres and he'd end up being a good neighbor. IMO, the problem is that most people have not experienced hunting on a well managed property where it is really easy to see multiple 1-3yr or even 4 yr old bucks on a regular basis. It seems unattainable for them and it will continue to be as long as they maintain their I'm gonna kill 20 deer a year attitude.

And before someone brings it up, kids get multiple free passes on bucks as they work their way up to the same shooting standards that the adults have. You cant expect a young kid, who's only killed a few does, to pass up 100-110" 2 and 3 yr old 8 points while waiting on a 5 yr old and we dont make them. Like I said, my problem is not with guys killing young bucks. I'm happy for them if that floats their boat. It's with those that "have" to kill every buck they see. My other peeve is all the corn hunting, not supplemental feeding, but corn hunting that goes on in this state. It's a game violation that everyone has done for so long that it has become commonplace and accepted practice.

There's got to be come common ground somewhere but everyone is too selfish to find it without a bunch of state imposed rules. HAlf the state wants to kill every deer they see and the other half wants to protect all the younger bucks. We are our own worst enemies. GA has two whole counties that are trophy managed. When it was first proposed, there was a huge backlash from the shoot any buck crowd. Now those same guys are the biggest proponents of letting young deer walk and everyone, large landowners and small, are reaping the benefits of quality herd management and loving it. But they absolutely squalled like babies and were kicking and screaming those first couple years. Look up Dooley and Macon counties and what they've done. By the way, GA has a 2 buck and 10 doe limit. Statewide, no exceptions. The length of their firearms season is similar to ours with the only difference being you can only kill 12 deer a year total in GA whereas you can kill 121 in Bama. Go figure why our hunting is suffering. And for the record I'm not for making entire counties trophy mnanaged. While it would help what we are trying to do mgmt wise, It infringes on others rights and that's not right either. I don't know what the answer is.

^^^^ Best post I have ever read on Aldeer!

Agree 1 Million % Abolt!!!

***********

I think the only things to be adjusted now are:

1. Have a rational doe limit per hunter.

We should open a discussion about that.
And based on what a lot of hunters report we should discuss what if any areas of the State should have a more significant restriction or limit including open and closed doe seasons. Seems that might be more of an issue for the Northern Tier.


2. I was going to have a 2 and 3 but don't want to open up a debate on this thread about corn and Gamecheck.

4. Continued emphasis on developing hunters into the conservation and land manager/steward level and QDM (not neccessarily TDM).