Still the 15th here as far I know. I’ve been starting on that date for years and don’t care much for change.

Not a big deal this year, (1 day), next year will cost us 6 days! I believe the 3rd Saturday (new law) falls on the 21st

And here is the response I got from Chuck....


Mr. Cockrell,

I was forwarded several emails from you today, one of which came from the Commissioner’s office, and I have been asked to respond to your concerns. I see that they are all centered around the change in the opening day of turkey season for the upcoming season. This quote was taken from your email addressed to specifically to me, “I realize that the CAB makes this recommendations but can’t you, as the director over rule them?” As you stated, the recommendation was not proposed by ADCNR Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division (WFF) wildlife biologists. However, we do not make the regulations. We can make recommendations to the Commissioner and the Board, but we can’t over rule them. So, ultimately, it is their decision.



Here’s another quote from you in an email simply addressed to whom it may concern, “ I wish we had leadership in the DCNR that wouldn’t allow major changes like this to seasons without a concrete biological reason.” Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it. The first priority with our staff in recommending changes to season regulations is the wildlife resource in which we are deemed responsible for managing. If a later opening had been proposed by our staff, it would likely have been later than the 3rd Saturday in March based on preliminary data. Our WFF Wild Turkey Committee, in cooperation with researchers at Auburn University, has developed wild turkey prediction models using current biological data such as reproduction, survival, and harvest rates to predict future populations under various season and bag limit alternatives. Although this work is not yet complete, indications are pointing to a later opening and reduced bag limit as the optimal alternative to produce the most viable populations. We are currently updating the model and will include data gleaned from the current AU research project when it concludes next year. Besides the observed decline in population growth as evidenced by our statewide brood surveys and harvest trends, harvest intensity in the first couple weeks of the spring season may play a role in reducing the potential of hens being bred.



The final quote of yours I’d like to respond to came specifically to me, “I am just very disappointed that we would allow a change like this based on someone’s agenda rather than abound biological reason.” I am looking at the turkey season and bag limit recommendations through three pair of glasses. First as a turkey hunter with 40 years of experience here in Alabama. Secondly, as a college educated wildlife biologist with more than 25 years of on-the-ground experience of managing tens of thousands of acres in Alabama. And finally, as the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries whose job is to manage, protect, conserve, and enhance the wildlife and aquatic resources of Alabama for the sustainable benefit of the people of Alabama. As a selfish turkey hunter, I want as many days afield as I can get regardless of the negative impact it could have on the resource. As a biologist, I want the season to start in April as the biological data suggests which would be best for the resource. As the Director, I have to weigh the consequences of both sides before I make recommendations. Although these season changes may be inconvenient for our hunters, me included, our focus is maintaining sustainable populations of wild turkeys, while providing hunting opportunities for all Alabamians, now and in the future.

Thank you for your input and I hope I have adequately addressed all of your concerns.



Chuck Sykes

Director

Wildlife & Freshwater Fisheries Division

Might as well request the stopping of clear cutting hardwood timber while you’re at it

Matt, you should respond and ask him if the last 50 years of population stability and growth under our current regs, is not a better sample than some study done by auburn.

Austin you and I know that the study is going to say what they want it to say. We should all prepare ourselves for a shorter season and a 4 bird limit next year.

Guess I'll be the outlier here. Props to Chuck and his response. All very valid points that I agree with. Of course I wear those biologists glasses too. It is not every day you get a tailored response from an agency's wildlife director.

Maybe yall could appoint him in MS. We'd gladly send him over

Alabama FINALLY gets a qualified MAN in there who makes decisions based on RESEARCH and Biological evidence.....and Folks still want the "Yes Man Puppets" that were in that position since the department was started. Not to mention the fact that the research/evidence compiled by Auburn University back in the 50's is why the restocking program was as successful in Alabama as it was and other states followed suite. The GOOD OLE BOY in office days are OVER.....Get your Butt off your shoulder and realize some things have to change along the path......

Not to mention the fact that the research/evidence compiled by Auburn University back in the 50's is why the restocking program was as successful in Alabama as it was and other states followed suite. ...

next year will cost us 6 days! I believe the 3rd Saturday (new law) falls on the 21st

Alabama FINALLY gets a qualified MAN in there who makes decisions based on RESEARCH and Biological evidence.....and Folks still want the "Yes Man Puppets"

“It’s a day that just about everybody has off,” Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”

Read this S L O W L Y

“It’s a day that just about everybody has off,” Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”

Fred Harders, Assistant Director

BrentM: Research the restocking program Bigboy.......Some of you folks on here I wonder if you actually have Pubes yet....

BrentM: Research the restocking program Bigboy....yes others "Tried the release of pen-reared wild stock"..didn't work. Auburn researched the habitat needs and trapped in-state-----actually traded some to other states. Some of you folks on here I wonder if you actually have Pubes yet....

Roll with the 15th, just don't post pics on Facebook or ALDeer. Don't post looking through a scope or with corn on the ground and you will be fine.

Don't forget to cut off your location tag in your camera settings as well.

Only problem I have with it opening March 15 this far north is that turkeys are still bunched up and I know of a couple instances where there have been 3-4 gobblers (or more) killed the first week over a pile of corn by some bloodthirsty folk.
I’d be ok if the northern part of Alabama’s season kinda mirrored Tennessee’s season. March 25- May 10 or so.
Taking days away just for the heck of it is inexcusable though.

Only problem I have with it opening March 15 this far north is that turkeys are still bunched up and I know of a couple instances where there have been 3-4 gobblers (or more) killed the first week over a pile of corn by some bloodthirsty folk.
I’d be ok if the northern part of Alabama’s season kinda mirrored Tennessee’s season. March 25- May 10 or so.
Taking days away just for the heck of it is inexcusable though.

I personally think they should reduce the limit to 3 birds and reduce the buck limits to 2. Only then would we start seeing our wildlife population increase to what it is capable of carrying.

Same with deer and turkeys some people are just idiots on how many they kill. If there are 50 hens and 3 gobblers some people will kill the only 3 left alive gobblers and wonder why there are no turkeys.

Why you gotta kill some hens to get your hen:gobbler ratio down. ... and cull gobblers

Why you gotta kill some hens to get your hen:gobbler ratio down. ... and cull gobblers

That's why we have a rule on our land that we have termed the "age & action improvement" bill.

Basically, we treat turkeys like they're under interrogation. If they gobble, they have basically confessed, therefore they get a pass. No gobble means they're withholding info and get a death sentence.

Additionally, if they strut, they get a pass. No strut= boom.

And, lastly, we have installed a fine system for age structure. A turkey 2.75 years and younger carries a fine of $25/ season that the bird was robbed of experiencing alive. If the bird is 2.5 years old (based on our proprietary advanced aging algorithms), he was robbed of one season and thus the hunter is fined $25.

Conversely, if he is older than 3.5, the money from the fining system begins to work in your favor, and you are credited for each season that bird got to live to the fullest. That funding comes from the underaged bird fine account.

A hunter on our land can who takes a verified 4+ year old bird with under 1" spurs (broken, misshapen, or missing spurs are also deemed culls and fit into this category as well) and under 10" beard (preferred, but subordinate to spur requirement) also qualifies for the QTM credit via a cull clause.

As Whild Bill puts it best, "We just know what works for us."

If any changes had to be made they should consider splitting into a north and south zone for starters

You want your turkey numbers up, start trapping every possum,coon,coyote,bobcat you can catch. I been trapping on 3 different places for 3 years. On one place I was overrun with coyotes, the first week I caught 11 coyotes and caught over 20 coon and possum combined. I trapped it hard in February right before turkey season. I heard more turkey's that spring on that 300 acres than I had combined the first 3 seasons I had the place. I only harvested one bird off the place that year, should have killed more birds but I couldn't seal the deal on a few others. That summer and fall my turkey flocks I normally saw during that time period doubled. Each flock went from 10-20 birds to 30 plus. I continued to trap through the Fall and right up to turkey season. I'm still trapping the place hard and still catching 10-15 coyotes every year plus that many coon and possum. Every year the gobbling has been better and my flock sizes are increasing. I'm no professional trapper and I don't do it for the money, I really enjoy doing it to help the turkey hunting out. I promise if you put the time in to catch some predators and egg eaters it will make a difference on your place for hearing and seeing number of birds on your place.

I hope Aubarn is doing these studies around areas that are being trapped and non-trapped areas to see the difference. I'm sure that they are not but maybe so.
I know this has nothing to do with pushing the start date back but maybe in the future it would help with there biological stand point for pushing it back.

Solid first post. Welcome

If the state would take the money they are using for all this “research” and start a program that encouraged trapping coyotes and varmints we’d have more turkeys here than we knew what to do with.

[quote=BrentM]
If the state would take the money they are using for all this “research” and start a program that encouraged trapping coyotes and varmints we’d have more turkeys here than we knew what to do with.

That's why we have a rule on our land that we have termed the "age & action improvement" bill.

Basically, we treat turkeys like they're under interrogation. If they gobble, they have basically confessed, therefore they get a pass. No gobble means they're withholding info and get a death sentence.

Additionally, if they strut, they get a pass. No strut= boom.

And, lastly, we have installed a fine system for age structure. A turkey 2.75 years and younger carries a fine of $25/ season that the bird was robbed of experiencing alive. If the bird is 2.5 years old (based on our proprietary advanced aging algorithms), he was robbed of one season and thus the hunter is fined $25.

Conversely, if he is older than 3.5, the money from the fining system begins to work in your favor, and you are credited for each season that bird got to live to the fullest. That funding comes from the underaged bird fine account.

A hunter on our land can who takes a verified 4+ year old bird with under 1" spurs (broken, misshapen, or missing spurs are also deemed culls and fit into this category as well) and under 10" beard (preferred, but subordinate to spur requirement) also qualifies for the QTM credit via a cull clause.

As Whild Bill puts it best, "We just know what works for us."

I've got a feeling the dominant gobblers might be about bred out by the time the season opens this year. I saw 2 Big boy paint brush beard gobblers with hens today. Doubt there just hanging around trying to be sociable

Agreed



We need a like button.

Still isn’t gonna affect the guys that kill 10-15 a year and hunt from March 1 til June 1 anyway.

That’s right! Not to mention the state doesn’t know or wont release the information of how many hunters kill a limit. Seems like that would be a useful price of the puzzle to know how many gobblers we would he “saving” by reducing the limit.

Bar II 270, I agree with you on the fines. Make the fine $5000 for killing over the limit. I disagree that 5 is to liberal a bag limit because I think there is a small percentage of hunters that kill 5. This is just a WAG but I bet 75% of turkey hunters in Alabama kill less than 2 gobblers a season.

AMEN!!!!!

It would appear that turkey numbers are all over the place throughout the state. Every year we see guys that limit out in the first two weeks (or less) while guys like me struggle to kill a bird or two. I’m not the best turkey hunter in the world, but I generally find a way to kill turkeys when I have turkeys. There has been a marked decrease in the turkey numbers where I am AND the turkeys that are there don’t seem to gobble like they used to. My guess is that this is due to predation that only gets real pressure during the open hunting seasons.

I do think 5 birds a year is too liberal across the state, but if you’re consistently killing 5, you probably have the populations that can sustain it. IMO, 3 birds a year should be plenty for anyone...yeah I know, it’s been 5 for all this time, but it also used to be a buck a day every day. I’m not aware of any state that is as liberal even those with higher turkey densities (and probably more hunters, I get it).

As for the opening date, I’ve always loved it when the 15th fell during the week because I have been blessed to have a job that allows me some freedom in taking days off. That said, I would expect that the state will be looking to reduce the number of days altogether with a reduction in the bag limit. If this is beneficial to our turkey population, I think we could all agree that it is a good thing. The problem is that it will take a while to see the effects, if any.

I do not like big government in any way. However, an individual’s perspective is shaped by their experience...If you are blessed to have a thriving turkey population, this all seems like BS. If you are in the same boat as me, you will have a different opinion. A “one size fits all” set of regulations is a tricky thing at best.

Retire from turkey hunting? If that were an option, it would have happened a long time ago!

It used to open on March 20 didn't it?

I swear when I was killing them in the early 90's that was opening day and then April 1 here. I even recall Sam R opening on April 1. I wore em out down there when it started opening on March 20th.

Yes it used to open here on March 20th and the bag limit was 6.

Yes it used to open here on March 20th and the bag limit was 6.

...and lower the limit to 3 gobblers with the option to turn in 10 trapped predators each for 1 more gobbler tag. 2 extra gobbler tags maximum.

What years was it 6?
I couldn’t recall.

Love his response, if the so called hunters would have more education and concern this State would have a better turkey as well as deer herd. Ignorance shows in all phases.

Here is good study from South Carolina why the season starts when it does.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/pdf/2018SCDNRTurkeyReporttoGeneralAssembly.pdf

Care to explain?