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Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269591
01/23/12 07:59 PM
01/23/12 07:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
I haven't seen much change in the numbers of deer we have on the farm in Perry Co. We've had good numbers of deer since the early 90s when some of the big dog hunting clubs went out of business. But there is a total of about 5000 acres surrounding us that is well-managed by large clubs that are practicing QDM. They are killing the right number of does to keep the population stable.

At my house in Coosa Co, there are hardly any deer at all now. The land here is made up of small landowners, and I think way too many does are being killed.

I hate the idea of more regulation, but I think areas of the state that are made up primarily of small landowners need a much more strict doe season. We could go back to the system of the state issuing doe tags to clubs that need them, and having a much shorter doe season overall. That would still allow clubs that need to kill does to kill them, and protect them in places that need protecting.

But the DCNR probably doesn't have the manpower to run that program anymore, and ALFA would be against it, so I doubt it will happen. I've solved the problem for myself by no longer deer hunting in Coosa Co. I suspect that's gonna happen to a lot of people in a lot of places.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269634
01/23/12 08:32 PM
01/23/12 08:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline
12 point
mike35549  Offline
12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
If hunters as a whole could manage a deer herd without any laws we would not have to have a deer season or any type of restrictions at all people would just do what was best for the herd. In places where you might have 2 or 3 clubs in one area controlling 5,000 acres a piece and applying the laws with some common sense the way the law is now would be fine. But in places where this is not the case it wont work. It is not working and will never work the way the laws are now. I had a guy that I hunt with that is a fairly knowledgeable hunter ask me why I wasn't killing any does and I said I didn't think we needed to kill more than had already been killed he told me " You know to grow big bucks you have to kill a lot of does and I think we should be killing at least twice as many as we do." This is the mentality of a lot of well intentioned hunters. We killed 4 bucks this year so far that weighed over 200lbs I am certain we are not over populated. As far as coyote there are numerous studies on fawn recruitment rates before and after coyote removal in areas and recruitment rates doubled or better in these areas. If they were not a problem these big pay to hunt places would not hire people to come in and trap them but they do.


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269650
01/23/12 08:41 PM
01/23/12 08:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 281
Fairhope
J
joeml18 Offline
4 point
joeml18  Offline
4 point
J
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 281
Fairhope
I hunted a piece of property near brewton 2 weeks ago that is 48,000 acres. I got to talking to the land manager and he said that to date they had only shot 120 does This time last year they had shot around 400 does. He said they keep all harvest records and this year was almost identical to 2007. Seems to me that hunting is pretty cyclical with of course different opinions from each area.

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269651
01/23/12 08:41 PM
01/23/12 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 293
A
ATDH Offline
4 point
ATDH  Offline
4 point
A
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 293
we so far have killed about 20 8pt or better and there has been alot of buttons that has been killed for does wich would prob put the buck numbers around 30 and we have only killed abount 18 does, sounds like next year is gonna be tough to see any for the club im in

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: mike35549] #269657
01/23/12 08:45 PM
01/23/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Deer numbers have been declining in many parts
of the Southeast since the Great Drought of
2007. That is also about the time the coyote population
went thru the roof and liberal doe harvest rules skyrocketed
doe harvest.

We used to whack and stack the does like crazy, but when
I saw the results of the 07 Drought converging with coyote
explosion (read fawn wipe out) we simply stopped killing
does for population control; we just shoot a couple for the
freezer.

People have to adjust what they are doing based on what
they are/aren't seeing.

Have to say this though: this has been a VERY warm winter.
No cold days to speak of. That always means less daytime deer
movement. La Nina sux.



"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: jlccoffee] #269680
01/23/12 09:02 PM
01/23/12 09:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted By: jlccoffee
I don't think the problem is with the limit. The problem is with too many people preaching that hunters need to shoot every doe they see. With education, in most cases hunters will make reasonable decisions.



yep

Last edited by WmHunter; 01/23/12 09:03 PM.

"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: Hogwild] #269682
01/23/12 09:04 PM
01/23/12 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted By: Hogwild
I gotta side with 49'er on this one........

It is very hypocritical of the ALDCNR to place a limit on the number of bucks that can be harvested by an individual while allowing 2 does a day the entire Season to be harvested by everyone who wants to go hunting!!!


yep


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #269738
01/23/12 09:57 PM
01/23/12 09:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
I haven't seen much change in the numbers of deer we have on the farm in Perry Co. We've had good numbers of deer since the early 90s when some of the big dog hunting clubs went out of business. But there is a total of about 5000 acres surrounding us that is well-managed by large clubs that are practicing QDM. They are killing the right number of does to keep the population stable.

At my house in Coosa Co, there are hardly any deer at all now. The land here is made up of small landowners, and I think way too many does are being killed.

I hate the idea of more regulation, but I think areas of the state that are made up primarily of small landowners need a much more strict doe season. We could go back to the system of the state issuing doe tags to clubs that need them, and having a much shorter doe season overall. That would still allow clubs that need to kill does to kill them, and protect them in places that need protecting.

But the DCNR probably doesn't have the manpower to run that program anymore, and ALFA would be against it, so I doubt it will happen. I've solved the problem for myself by no longer deer hunting in Coosa Co. I suspect that's gonna happen to a lot of people in a lot of places.


surely you aren't suggesting that practicing QDM works... wink

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: Hogwild] #269791
01/23/12 10:45 PM
01/23/12 10:45 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 138
T-Town
S
seven-up Offline
3 point
seven-up  Offline
3 point
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 138
T-Town
Originally Posted By: Hogwild
The huge reduction in the deer herd combined with the greatly reduced fawn recruitment rates has created a situation where there are very few 'hungry' deer. With the thick cover and large expanses of managed properties, along with numerous food plots (take a look at an aerial view on Bing maps!) deer simply do NOT have to move during daylight hours OR move very far when they do move.


Agree!

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269936
01/24/12 09:02 AM
01/24/12 09:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,052
Sylacauga, AL
>>>surely you aren't suggesting that practicing QDM works...<<<

Whaddayamean? I've always believed that QDM works when applied over a large area.

I wasn't for the unenforceable buck limit because I didn't think IT would work. But that's a different argument. wink


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269964
01/24/12 09:50 AM
01/24/12 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,870
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill Offline
Freak of Nature
bill  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 23,870
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
Its always something. Most years hunters are complaining that the rut is in Feb. And they don't see any bucks.

This year I've heard a lot of hunters talk about an early rut and I've seen a truck load of good bucks killed but now we are complaining that we can't see 20 does on a greenfield like the good ol days.


I don't know much about qdm or putting doe limits but I imagine the answer lies some where in the middle. Wouldn't matter if we got it perfect we would still find something to complain about. It's what we do.


"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #269984
01/24/12 10:27 AM
01/24/12 10:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,153
Hoover
40Bucks Offline
14 point
40Bucks  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,153
Hoover
I suppose I'm one of the fortunate ones. I see several does every time I hunt our farm. We're in west AL. We have 200 acres of pasture, with cattle, 100 acres of 7 yo pines and 150 acres of ancient hardwood creekbottom. But, we're also landlocked and all the surrounding property is hunted heavily. We only hunt 5-10 man/days per month with two of us being the only ones hunting.
What I don't see is bucks older than 2.5 yo.
Personally, I don't have any complaints about the liberal doe season.

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: bill] #269986
01/24/12 10:29 AM
01/24/12 10:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: bill
Its always something. Most years hunters are complaining that the rut is in Feb. And they don't see any bucks.

This year I've heard a lot of hunters talk about an early rut and I've seen a truck load of good bucks killed but now we are complaining that we can't see 20 does on a greenfield like the good ol days.


I don't know much about qdm or putting doe limits but I imagine the answer lies some where in the middle. Wouldn't matter if we got it perfect we would still find something to complain about. It's what we do.

I'll agree with ya on this one.^^^^



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: bill] #270017
01/24/12 11:42 AM
01/24/12 11:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
bigt Offline
14 point
bigt  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
Originally Posted By: bill
Its always something. Most years hunters are complaining that the rut is in Feb. And they don't see any bucks.

This year I've heard a lot of hunters talk about an early rut and I've seen a truck load of good bucks killed but now we are complaining that we can't see 20 does on a greenfield like the good ol days.


I don't know much about qdm or putting doe limits but I imagine the answer lies some where in the middle. Wouldn't matter if we got it perfect we would still find something to complain about. It's what we do.


Where I hunt the rut is and has always been the last week of Jan into feb not complaining just a fact that even fetus studies support. No more bucks have been killed in my area than the usual amount and our doe population has been on a steady decline for the last five years. These are not new complaints just the same old facts.I do not think we need to see 20 does on a food plot but I do think that somewhere in the middle is the right answer and allowing two does a day the whole season is not middle ground.


Life is too short to be small !!

http://crshuntingclub.webs.com/
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: 2Dogs] #270078
01/24/12 01:31 PM
01/24/12 01:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: 2Dogs
Originally Posted By: bill
Its always something. Most years hunters are complaining that the rut is in Feb. And they don't see any bucks.

This year I've heard a lot of hunters talk about an early rut and I've seen a truck load of good bucks killed but now we are complaining that we can't see 20 does on a greenfield like the good ol days.


I don't know much about qdm or putting doe limits but I imagine the answer lies some where in the middle. Wouldn't matter if we got it perfect we would still find something to complain about. It's what we do.

I'll agree with ya on this one.^^^^


Hit the nail on the head. First point is I have also heard from numerous people that hunt anywhere from Union Town, to Selma to Montgomery that the bucks started chasing around the first week in January, which is a couple of weeks early. Second point, I never hear about extending the season from people in LA that have well managed land with low pressure cause they usually kill their fill of mature bucks by the end of the season. For what it's worth I think there is a general opinion that in most of LA the bucks don't get cranked up until the very end of the month and way into Feb. b/c the land is either not managed properly (buck to doe ratio is way off) or there is a lot of pressure so most of the rutting activity is done at night.

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #270109
01/24/12 02:47 PM
01/24/12 02:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
J
jlccoffee Offline
14 point
jlccoffee  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
There is intense rutting activity on the property I hunt right now. Much more intense than I ever saw when I hunted primarily in Georgia. Most of the deer movement I am seeing in the last week is around 10am so they do not appear to be moving mostly at night. I kill enough deer every year to be satisfied and if the season was later, I doubt I would kill any more than I already do.

I'm for hunting on into February in South Alabama.

Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #270125
01/24/12 03:25 PM
01/24/12 03:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,702
Cleburne
.308 Online content
14 point
.308  Online Content
14 point
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,702
Cleburne
I agree we need to stop the doe slaughter. I at least like to see deer when deer hunting. There's not much sport in sitting in a killing house & shooting does off a killing field with 500 magnum rifles. It's going to get much worse when baiting is allowed. There won't be any does left. Hunting will go back to the way it was in the 60's & 70's when folks talked about seeing a deer track for days. The herd needs to be managed, not exterminated.


"When you've stared down the barrel of a shotgun in your own home, 3rd & 20 don't seem too bad"......Ken "Snake" Stabler
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: bill] #270183
01/24/12 04:57 PM
01/24/12 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 51,938
Over Yonder
Quote:
This year I've heard a lot of hunters talk about an early rut and I've seen a truck load of good bucks killed but now we are complaining that we can't see 20 does on a greenfield like the good ol days.


Society wants it all:

--Giant bucks
-- Seeing numbers every time they go hunting "like the good 'ol days"
-- Watching "the rut" (which is the chasing phase, b/c that's fun to watch)

-- State DNRs "leaving us ALONE!!!!"
-- State DNRs "doing something about 'everyone' killing 'everything' that moves

-- Game Wardens should stay the hell away (and Marine Police, too)!
-- Game Wardens should come catch my poachers now but they're doing something else!

-- Cooperation would help with deer management
-- Neighbors slay everything and won't cooperate

-- Season's too long
-- Season's not long enough

-- Doe slaughter has to stop
-- Don't need more regulations telling me about killing does or bucks

-- State biologists aren't concerned about (whatever issue)
-- State biologists don't know shix about (whatever issue)
-- State biologists have been hiding data about (whatever issue)
-- State biologist helped our club and is a good ol' guy

-- You're not a hunter if you don't use (whatever weapon)
-- Let's all get along and support one another and hunting

-- Get kids in the outdoors!
-- Sorry, we don't allow squirrel or rabbit hunting anywhere on our property until after deer season ends

-- Gots a damn problem with hogs!
-- Sorry, we don't allow anyone on our property due to liability

-- We need to kill some does early in the season
-- Sorry, we don't allow anyone outside the club unless you pay club dues and it also counts against one of my two 'visits' so ... sorry.

Ad nauseum ...


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: FurFlyin] #270197
01/24/12 05:11 PM
01/24/12 05:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 35,427
Missouri
swamp_fever2002 Offline
Administrator
swamp_fever2002  Offline
Administrator
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Posts: 35,427
Missouri
Good post Clem!


It takes a long time to grow an old friend.
Re: Your personal observations on the effect of liberal doe season (POLL) [Re: Clem] #270203
01/24/12 05:24 PM
01/24/12 05:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
Great post Clem, you hit all the nails!



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







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