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Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
#2597131
10/02/18 08:41 PM
10/02/18 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Hey guys, I was thinking today that I would like to meet Dave and pick his brain and hear what he had to say about turkey hunting and his 2018 season. I know there are a bunch of guys on here who would probably like to do the same so I sent Dave a message today asking him if he would be interested in having a meet and greet with the hardcore turkey hunters of Aldeer and he said it would be a pleasure. We briefly discussed dates but before we can really nail anything down it would be good to have an idea of how many folks would come. More than likely this would be in the central alabama area. So what do y’all think? Would you try to make it?
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597158
10/02/18 08:57 PM
10/02/18 08:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,647 Montgomery
bamaeyedoc
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,647
Montgomery
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I'd like to meet him too! Bring his buddies with him if possible.
Dr. B
AKA: “Dr. B” Aldeer #121 8-3-2000 Proud alum of AUM, UAB, and UA Member of Team 10 Point 2023-2024 ALdeer Deer Contest Winners
Glennis Jerome "Jerry" Harris 1938-2017 UGA Class of 1960 BS/MS Forestry LTJG, USNR
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597190
10/02/18 09:28 PM
10/02/18 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002 Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002
Covington County
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Depending on date, I would definitely try to come as well.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes to us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597202
10/02/18 09:37 PM
10/02/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657 Pelham
Ben2
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657
Pelham
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597241
10/02/18 10:18 PM
10/02/18 10:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,429 Helena
3toe
Talking Turkey
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Talking Turkey
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,429
Helena
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597264
10/02/18 10:52 PM
10/02/18 10:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 833 Cantonment,Fl
hyco
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 833
Cantonment,Fl
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I’d try to make the trip for sure
take your kids hunting and you won't be hunting your kids
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597278
10/02/18 11:57 PM
10/02/18 11:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,509 Luverne
tbest3
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 5,509
Luverne
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597318
10/03/18 06:48 AM
10/03/18 06:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,613 Spanish Fort
TurkeyJoe
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,613
Spanish Fort
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If it works out on my 7 days off, I’ll probably come visit y’all northerners
Micah 6:8
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597351
10/03/18 07:42 AM
10/03/18 07:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071 NBama
mr.clif
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
NBama
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597427
10/03/18 09:44 AM
10/03/18 09:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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If at all possible schedule wise....absolutely!
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597606
10/03/18 01:36 PM
10/03/18 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,887 AL
BD
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,887
AL
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597659
10/03/18 02:26 PM
10/03/18 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,844 AL
Gobble4me757
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,844
AL
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Depending on when, I'm in if I can make it
2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion 2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2597879
10/03/18 06:47 PM
10/03/18 06:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,021 Hartselle Al.
n2deer
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,021
Hartselle Al.
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I’m always up to drink beer and tell stories.
Do you want to hear him gobble, or do you want to kill him.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2598026
10/03/18 08:38 PM
10/03/18 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: foldemup]
#2598079
10/03/18 09:33 PM
10/03/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,460 Marshall County
Haybale
bearded hen
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bearded hen
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,460
Marshall County
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I would be in depending on location......or better yet, since his girlfriend lives in Jackson County, we should just do it somewhere in Scottsboro! x2
"To God Be The Glory"
"I'm in if it involves sticking my hand in a hole". Brent mashburn.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: JUGHEAD]
#2598080
10/03/18 09:33 PM
10/03/18 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,460 Marshall County
Haybale
bearded hen
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bearded hen
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,460
Marshall County
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If at all possible schedule wise....absolutely! I’ll tag along with melon head
"To God Be The Glory"
"I'm in if it involves sticking my hand in a hole". Brent mashburn.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2598142
10/03/18 10:42 PM
10/03/18 10:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978 South of 20/North of 10
North40R
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
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Hold on a minute! You hillbilly's can't keep dragging everything North! The OP said central Bama. Scottsboro is North Bama.
Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2598680
10/04/18 06:03 PM
10/04/18 06:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Update. I talked to Dave a little while ago and he is going to look at his calendar and send me some dates that will work for him this fall/winter and we’ll start getting this thing nailed down. I figure this could end up being a pretty large crowd so once we have a date I’ll start working on a venue where we can all get together. I’ll keep everybody posted with the details as I know them. I’m pretty excited that this is coming together!
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2600408
10/06/18 02:02 PM
10/06/18 02:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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We have a date! Saturday evening Oct 27th. Time and place is to be announced. We’re going to have food and I told Dave we would make sure he wasn’t out of pocket for his driving and time. Of course he said he wouldn’t take anything for coming out and that was crazy talk but I figure we can all chip in for food and a little extra for Dave whether he wants it or not.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2600422
10/06/18 02:18 PM
10/06/18 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
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We have a date! Saturday evening Oct 27th. Time and place is to be announced. We’re going to have food and I told Dave we would make sure he wasn’t out of pocket for his driving and time. Of course he said he wouldn’t take anything for coming out and that was crazy talk but I figure we can all chip in for food and a little extra for Dave whether he wants it or not.
Well that great!! I’ll be in Daphne that weekend, just my luck!!! Maybe I can get him to tag along with me this spring on a hunt so I can pick his brain
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2600558
10/06/18 04:38 PM
10/06/18 04:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588
Tuscaloosa Co.
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I'm off that day. Depending on the deer movement and the time of the meeting, I'll be there.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2600895
10/06/18 07:56 PM
10/06/18 07:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,887 AL
BD
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,887
AL
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We should all chip in and get him 10 lbs of #9 TSS for his time. Even he couldn’t turn that down. I’m in pending location is still central AL.
Last edited by BD; 10/06/18 10:10 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2601148
10/06/18 09:50 PM
10/06/18 09:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451 North Alabama
YEKRUT
Turkey Nut
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Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
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That’s juvi weekend in tn so I’m out.
Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2602970
10/09/18 09:21 AM
10/09/18 09:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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We have a date! Saturday evening Oct 27th. Time and place is to be announced. We’re going to have food and I told Dave we would make sure he wasn’t out of pocket for his driving and time. Of course he said he wouldn’t take anything for coming out and that was crazy talk but I figure we can all chip in for food and a little extra for Dave whether he wants it or not.
If November 3rd works better for the majority that's another good Saturday. I know we won't be able to coordinate with everyone's schedule just tossing around ideas.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Cove]
#2603036
10/09/18 10:48 AM
10/09/18 10:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978 South of 20/North of 10
North40R
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
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If November 3rd works better for the majority that's another good Saturday. I know we won't be able to coordinate with everyone's schedule just tossing around ideas.
I'm working that weekend too!
Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Cove]
#2603187
10/09/18 01:57 PM
10/09/18 01:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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If November 3rd works better for the majority that's another good Saturday. I know we won't be able to coordinate with everyone's schedule just tossing around ideas. Still in.
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2603612
10/09/18 09:26 PM
10/09/18 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002 Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002
Covington County
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If I’m done planting food plots on my big lease here in Alabama I’ll do my best to make the 27th. I’ll probably be headed north to my leases in Kentucky and Illinois to start a 6 week Midwest hunting tour around that time frame. November 3rd is definitely out for me.
Last edited by Squeaky; 10/09/18 09:27 PM.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes to us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2604519
10/10/18 05:18 PM
10/10/18 05:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Do y’all want to have it on Oct 27th or move it to a later date? I’m good with whatever the majority wants. I certainly don’t want Dave to drive over here and only have 5 or 6 people show up when we could postpone it and maybe have 30.
Like Dave said we are never going to be able to pick the perfect day but maybe if it was a couple of months out everybody could mark it on their calendars before you get booked up.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2604531
10/10/18 05:37 PM
10/10/18 05:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
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I’d like another shot at making it so later would be fine with me but it’ll still depend on the day but I’ll try my best to make it, it’ll have to be a family event to keep me away, not deer hunting
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2604650
10/10/18 07:10 PM
10/10/18 07:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,588
Tuscaloosa Co.
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October 27th is better than later in the season for me.
83% of all statistics are made up.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: jlbuc10]
#2606048
10/12/18 12:32 PM
10/12/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651 Longwood, FL
jlbuc10
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
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I’m out also. Had a hunting trip already planned that weekend. I may be back in depending on location, hunting trip canceled due to knee scope
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2606241
10/12/18 05:30 PM
10/12/18 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002 Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002
Covington County
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If y'all want me to attend it will have to be the 27th. I think I'll be able to make that date.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes to us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2609941
10/16/18 12:40 PM
10/16/18 12:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Meet and greet has been postponed until after deer season when everybody gets back into turkey mode. We will set a date way in advance so everybody can plan their schedules accordingly.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2610049
10/16/18 02:56 PM
10/16/18 02:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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Meet and greet has been postponed until after deer season when everybody gets back into turkey mode. We will set a date way in advance so everybody can plan their schedules accordingly. "You are one pathetic loser....no offense."
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: JUGHEAD]
#2610110
10/16/18 04:22 PM
10/16/18 04:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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Meet and greet has been postponed until after deer season when everybody gets back into turkey mode. We will set a date way in advance so everybody can plan their schedules accordingly. "You are one pathetic loser....no offense." 😂 Dang! To be clear Dave sent me a message this morning and said, “I'm voting to just hold off on anything til probably first of the year when folks get back into turkey mode.” Hopefully we can schedule this thing for February and give plenty of notice so everybody that’s wants to come can make it 👍🏻
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2610144
10/16/18 05:08 PM
10/16/18 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
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Sounds good!! Keep us posted
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2610338
10/16/18 07:40 PM
10/16/18 07:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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😂 Dang! To be clear Dave sent me a message this morning and said,
“I'm voting to just hold off on anything til probably first of the year when folks get back into turkey mode.”
Hopefully we can schedule this thing for February and give plenty of notice so everybody that’s wants to come can make it 👍🏻 I sure hope you recognized my insult as a quote from Dumb and Dumber. In all seriousness, I am a little disappointed but understand. Heck, ol Dave might be like you and kill 3 150” deer on local public ground every year while goofing around waiting for the real hunting to come back around.
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: JUGHEAD]
#2610441
10/16/18 08:44 PM
10/16/18 08:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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😂 Dang! To be clear Dave sent me a message this morning and said,
“I'm voting to just hold off on anything til probably first of the year when folks get back into turkey mode.”
Hopefully we can schedule this thing for February and give plenty of notice so everybody that’s wants to come can make it 👍🏻 I sure hope you recognized my insult as a quote from Dumb and Dumber. In all seriousness, I am a little disappointed but understand. Heck, ol Dave might be like you and kill 3 150” deer on local public ground every year while goofing around waiting for the real hunting to come back around. Yes, I got the quote! 😂😂😂 and I’m disappointed to buddy. We’re gonna get this thing set up eventually!
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2614299
10/20/18 08:42 PM
10/20/18 08:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,523 Boaz,AL
CarbonClimber1
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 7,523
Boaz,AL
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I met Dave today and shook his hand, hes a really nice guy.
"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: CarbonClimber1]
#2616833
10/23/18 01:09 PM
10/23/18 01:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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I met Dave today and shook his hand, hes a really nice guy. Pleasure meeting you! Sorry for the delay on the next video guys! I got distracted this weekend and then got the call the apparel was ready today. Anyone on the "out of stock" list be on the lookout for an email from me this week. Thanks!
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#2617231
10/23/18 08:23 PM
10/23/18 08:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978 South of 20/North of 10
North40R
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,978
South of 20/North of 10
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Where can we find this apparel at?
Can't wait for the next video Dave! I've really enjoyed being able to tag along for the season with y'all.
Adopt the pace of nature, her secret is patience. Emerson
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: North40R]
#2617559
10/24/18 07:47 AM
10/24/18 07:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071 NBama
mr.clif
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
NBama
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Where can we find this apparel at?
Can't wait for the next video Dave! I've really enjoyed being able to tag along for the season with y'all. He has pics of it on Facebook and instagram then email him what you want. Pinhotiproject@gmail.com
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3447367
07/23/21 08:43 AM
07/23/21 08:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,802 LASW
turkey247
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,802
LASW
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New topics for get together: Hyper crowded public land Awesome new season dates What else?
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3447423
07/23/21 09:59 AM
07/23/21 09:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048 Sylacauga
doecommander
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
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things that make you go hmmmmmmm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048
Sylacauga
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Guess they will blame me for digging up this old post😂😂
doecommander out...........................
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3447652
07/23/21 03:10 PM
07/23/21 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,669 Madison, AL
wmd
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,669
Madison, AL
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Oh how the tables have turned ...
"Any way you look at it, most of the problems facing baboons can be expressed in two words: other baboons" - D.L. Cheney and R.M. Seyfarth
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Atoler]
#3448091
07/24/21 10:02 AM
07/24/21 10:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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I’ll happily admit that I did not initially recognize the harm YouTube has caused. And I still enjoy watching pinhoti or Aaron on THP. I can see both sides of the aisle. But the harm is now outweighing the enjoyment. Heck I started this thread and I’ll admit the same. The YouTube public land hunters have had a detrimental effect on public land hunting.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Gobl4me]
#3448119
07/24/21 11:14 AM
07/24/21 11:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56 new orleans, la
sasquatch1
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56
new orleans, la
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Nothing to be embarrassed about….and I doubt the pinhoti project guys knew what would happen either when they started. But now it’s quite clear. Difference is, they don’t believe it has anything to do with them still. Unless Dave changed his mind within the last month
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3448123
07/24/21 11:19 AM
07/24/21 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316 NE Mississippi
deerhunt1988
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316
NE Mississippi
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Yeah, they just blame it on COVID. I saw Aaron using that scapegoat on the book of Faces yesterday.
I guess another side effect of COVID is alteration of brain chemistry. It makes you plan a trip to the same state, region, or even exact same WMA/Forest that your favorite YouTuber hunted last year. It also makes you purchase their merchandise and dress exactly like them. And steal their terminology: "Turkey Tour" "In his bubble"
That danged COVID!
Last edited by deerhunt1988; 07/24/21 11:21 AM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3448149
07/24/21 12:14 PM
07/24/21 12:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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I’ll happily admit that I did not initially recognize the harm YouTube has caused. And I still enjoy watching pinhoti or Aaron on THP. I can see both sides of the aisle. But the harm is now outweighing the enjoyment. Heck I started this thread and I’ll admit the same. The YouTube public land hunters have had a detrimental effect on public land hunting. Ditto on both counts.
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: JUGHEAD]
#3448164
07/24/21 12:43 PM
07/24/21 12:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823 North Alabama
Hevishot13
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823
North Alabama
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I’ll happily admit that I did not initially recognize the harm YouTube has caused. And I still enjoy watching pinhoti or Aaron on THP. I can see both sides of the aisle. But the harm is now outweighing the enjoyment. Heck I started this thread and I’ll admit the same. The YouTube public land hunters have had a detrimental effect on public land hunting. Ditto on both counts. It’s only gonna get worse.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3448193
07/24/21 01:44 PM
07/24/21 01:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048 Sylacauga
doecommander
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
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things that make you go hmmmmmmm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048
Sylacauga
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved
doecommander out...........................
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: doecommander]
#3448331
07/24/21 06:14 PM
07/24/21 06:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823 North Alabama
Hevishot13
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823
North Alabama
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Hevishot13]
#3448340
07/24/21 06:21 PM
07/24/21 06:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,844 AL
Gobble4me757
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,844
AL
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey. x2...I used to loved his vids but now it's about selling merchandise and all. It's why I still really only watch the Chubbs vids b/c he doesn't care about the fame and all, just loves to turkey hunt. It kills me these super famous hunters really have a platform to make a difference when it comes to promoting trapping and going against the season change bs yet they all are silent on it. They don't care because they make enough money on youtube vids to hunt any states they choose and it doesn't affect them really.
2017 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion 2018 Team Aldeer Turkey Contest Champion
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3448565
07/25/21 02:35 AM
07/25/21 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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I sincerely hope all the people who are just now seeing the negative affects of social media will continue to voice their concerns. I doubt we ever see THP, Dave, and the rest admit fault at this point. Just maybe, they will quit leaving any cookie crumbs as to where they are at. If they are truly hunting for the love of the sport, why do they have to even name a state?
Last edited by bayouturkey; 07/25/21 03:46 AM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Gobble4me757]
#3448568
07/25/21 03:45 AM
07/25/21 03:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey. x2...I used to loved his vids but now it's about selling merchandise and all. It's why I still really only watch the Chubbs vids b/c he doesn't care about the fame and all, just loves to turkey hunt. It kills me these super famous hunters really have a platform to make a difference when it comes to promoting trapping and going against the season change bs yet they all are silent on it. They don't care because they make enough money on youtube vids to hunt any states they choose and it doesn't affect them really. Do a little digging on YouTube monetization rates. Then go look at their view counts. These YouTubers aren’t making chit in the overall grand scheme from their videos. This is assumption on my part- I bet every single one of them is doing odd jobs in the off season to support their “career”.
Last edited by bayouturkey; 07/25/21 03:45 AM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: bayouturkey]
#3448576
07/25/21 05:34 AM
07/25/21 05:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316 NE Mississippi
deerhunt1988
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316
NE Mississippi
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Just maybe, they will quit leaving any cookie crumbs as to where they are at. If they are truly hunting for the love of the sport, why do they have to even name a state?
They have to name a state so they can have their video show up first when someone searches " 'xyz' state turkey hunt". And SO many people watch their videos just try to find the next best state/spot to turkey hunt in. It is also why you routinely see them throw "public land" in the title. If they just titled a video "Southeastern Gobbler at 20 yards" or "Midwest gobblers galore!" it'd be tougher for them to show up in searches. Another reason THP has long video titles, they need as many 'key words' as possible. It is all about building their brand and following. I recently met with with Dave and asked him to quit naming states. Oh boy, that didn't go over well! Basically, I was told he's a traveling turkey hunter who has built his brand on traveling to different states so he is always going to name states! Told me all I needed to know right there.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: deerhunt1988]
#3448618
07/25/21 08:24 AM
07/25/21 08:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Just maybe, they will quit leaving any cookie crumbs as to where they are at. If they are truly hunting for the love of the sport, why do they have to even name a state?
They have to name a state so they can have their video show up first when someone searches " 'xyz' state turkey hunt". And SO many people watch their videos just try to find the next best state/spot to turkey hunt in. It is also why you routinely see them throw "public land" in the title. If they just titled a video "Southeastern Gobbler at 20 yards" or "Midwest gobblers galore!" it'd be tougher for them to show up in searches. Another reason THP has long video titles, they need as many 'key words' as possible. It is all about building their brand and following. I recently met with with Dave and asked him to quit naming states. Oh boy, that didn't go over well! Basically, I was told he's a traveling turkey hunter who has built his brand on traveling to different states so he is always going to name states! Told me all I needed to know right there. Exactly. Dave is about Dave. Damn what is best for the resource. He has the “I’m going to get mine” mentality worse than the other channels IMO. If anyone thinks he’s not about fame or recognition, they are sadly mistaken.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: bayouturkey]
#3448634
07/25/21 09:01 AM
07/25/21 09:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823 North Alabama
Hevishot13
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,823
North Alabama
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey. x2...I used to loved his vids but now it's about selling merchandise and all. It's why I still really only watch the Chubbs vids b/c he doesn't care about the fame and all, just loves to turkey hunt. It kills me these super famous hunters really have a platform to make a difference when it comes to promoting trapping and going against the season change bs yet they all are silent on it. They don't care because they make enough money on youtube vids to hunt any states they choose and it doesn't affect them really. Do a little digging on YouTube monetization rates. Then go look at their view counts. These YouTubers aren’t making chit in the overall grand scheme from their videos. This is assumption on my part- I bet every single one of them is doing odd jobs in the off season to support their “career”. Now I didnt say he was making money off of youtube now did I?
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Ben2]
#3448652
07/25/21 09:35 AM
07/25/21 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Congrata to Dave for making a career out of what he enjoys! If only everyone could be as fortunate. Only problem is he’s screwing the general public in the process. Can the same be said other lines of work?
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: bayouturkey]
#3448712
07/25/21 11:28 AM
07/25/21 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264 God's Country
Swampdrummin
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
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Congrata to Dave for making a career out of what he enjoys! If only everyone could be as fortunate. Only problem is he’s screwing the general public in the process. Can the same be said other lines of work? Just politicians and state game agency heads.
Quack quack.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3448747
07/25/21 01:02 PM
07/25/21 01:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800
North Jackson
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Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: ridgestalker]
#3448756
07/25/21 01:09 PM
07/25/21 01:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
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Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills. 😂😂😂 this place never disappoints! Now we acting like he can’t call up a turkey
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: sj22]
#3448786
07/25/21 02:01 PM
07/25/21 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,284 Spanish Fort
Jstocks
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,284
Spanish Fort
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Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills. 😂😂😂 this place never disappoints! Now we acting like he can’t call up a turkey Heck, I guess if I’m honest I bushwhacked most of the turkeys I’ve ever killed. Ain’t been many of them sit by the tree call to him in the morning fly down killings in my experience.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Jstocks]
#3448798
07/25/21 02:20 PM
07/25/21 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
sj22
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,913
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Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills. 😂😂😂 this place never disappoints! Now we acting like he can’t call up a turkey Heck, I guess if I’m honest I bushwhacked most of the turkeys I’ve ever killed. Ain’t been many of them sit by the tree call to him in the morning fly down killings in my experience. Me too! But they just as dead as the ones that did fly down and come straight to me. I’ll take em however I can
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: sj22]
#3448825
07/25/21 03:09 PM
07/25/21 03:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800
North Jackson
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Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills. 😂😂😂 this place never disappoints! Now we acting like he can’t call up a turkey Heck, I guess if I’m honest I bushwhacked most of the turkeys I’ve ever killed. Ain’t been many of them sit by the tree call to him in the morning fly down killings in my experience. Me too! But they just as dead as the ones that did fly down and come straight to me. I’ll take em however I can The only difference is y’all are not on YouTube talking about how much you respect the turkey and it’s all about the hunt not the kill. There’s a difference between fooling one and just killing one.It’s not that hard to sneak into TSS range. I maybe a little sour since he films some on the WMA I hunt.He maybe be a World Champion turkey caller but his Yelp sounds like a puppy barking to me.😬
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Gobble4me757]
#3449022
07/25/21 08:05 PM
07/25/21 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,159 In The Stack
General
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,159
In The Stack
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Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey. x2...I used to loved his vids but now it's about selling merchandise and all. It's why I still really only watch the Chubbs vids b/c he doesn't care about the fame and all, just loves to turkey hunt. It kills me these super famous hunters really have a platform to make a difference when it comes to promoting trapping and going against the season change bs yet they all are silent on it. They don't care because they make enough money on youtube vids to hunt any states they choose and it doesn't affect them really. Dave has posted on social media talking about the importance of trapping while he was trapping. I’m not saying I love YouTube hunters but from what I’ve seen he’s a pretty good guy who truly loves chasing turkeys.
"I'd rather go down the river with seven studs than with a hundred ****heads" - Colonel Charlie Beckwith Founder Delta Force
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: sj22]
#3455155
08/02/21 08:49 PM
08/02/21 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Can you summarize without having to listen to tooth chipper? He needs to grow a set and come on here and other forums to discuss his behavior that is influencing us all.
Last edited by bayouturkey; 08/02/21 08:49 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: 865]
#3456662
08/04/21 08:31 PM
08/04/21 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Have to say, Dave is the only one that pushes back against some of these new regulations. He pushes habitat management and purchasing more public lands and doesn’t believe in limiting access or time to hunt until all other measures fail, just wish he’d be a little louder and less worried about offending chamberlain. Do you by any chance have a link to any of podcasts, etc where Dave discusses this?
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: bayouturkey]
#3456748
08/04/21 10:00 PM
08/04/21 10:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
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Have to say, Dave is the only one that pushes back against some of these new regulations. He pushes habitat management and purchasing more public lands and doesn’t believe in limiting access or time to hunt until all other measures fail, just wish he’d be a little louder and less worried about offending chamberlain. Do you by any chance have a link to any of podcasts, etc where Dave discusses this? I skimmed through the one SJ posted a few posts up, and he said a few things along those lines in the first 15-20 minutes of the podcast.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3456823
08/05/21 07:22 AM
08/05/21 07:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,495 Guntersville
AC870
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,495
Guntersville
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Dave better bring a bodyguard. Lol. I don’t watch a lot of YouTube and wouldn’t know him if I met him.
“Killing tomorrow’s trophies today.”
On the distance I like to walk to my stands: “The first 100 yards is also the last 100 yards.”
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: AC870]
#3456875
08/05/21 08:39 AM
08/05/21 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,750 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,750
Awbarn, AL
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Dave better bring a bodyguard. Lol. Aint that the truth!!.......
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: AC870]
#3457276
08/05/21 08:17 PM
08/05/21 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219 Ridge Top
bayouturkey
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 219
Ridge Top
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Dave better bring a bodyguard. Lol. I don’t watch a lot of YouTube and wouldn’t know him if I met him.
[quote=AC870] With the looks of that man of little stature, he may very well need one.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: 865]
#3458006
08/07/21 12:26 AM
08/07/21 12:26 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,571 Behind you
Avengedsevenfold
10 point
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10 point
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,571
Behind you
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less worried about offending chamberlain. To hell with a meet and greet with Dave. Y’all set it up with TURKEY DOC and I’m in
Carrying a gun isn't comfortable; but at times it is comforting
"Cause the cause for the pause you think you see is really concentration on the steel” NonPoint
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3458016
08/07/21 04:09 AM
08/07/21 04:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264 God's Country
Swampdrummin
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 264
God's Country
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Basically any of the ones he’s been on that discussed conservation. He does his videos the best out of all the YouTube guys, leaves very little in his videos to get a bead on. It’s all the wanna be’s trying to do what he does that wouldn’t even be out there if they didn’t have a YouTube or Instagram account. They are the ones burning places for pocket change or less. Some of the podcast guests and hosts are the worst. Willing to spill their guts and drop names of places for a little name recognition that nobody cares about. I wish one of them had the guts to push back on the b.s. that chamberlain spews, wouldn’t be hard to make a fool out of him. Dave is the best of the "Youtube Guys" at least the last I watched. He's a straight predator. The problem though is that he gets off at everyone watching his videos and thinking that he's a predator. You can go back and search my posts, I've said it before - I just don't like his face. There's a "I'm the best" attitude. Which is unfortunate. If Dave wasn't so up on himself he would be a helluva turkey hunter to hang out with. But alas, neuroscience teaches us that by the time we are 30, we are who we are. Even before the "Pinhoti Project", Dave was the guy who got off at being a "better turkey hunter" than everyone else. He's not the guy who loves turkeys. He's not the guy who loves turkey hunting or loves turkey conservation. Dave loves the idea of people thinking he's the best. Dave, in his own words, has branded himself as a "Traveling turkey hunter". He refused to not name the spots he visited. After all, how would people know? He will continue to seek fame as he travels from state to state burning one man's honey hole after the other. It's not that hard to do if you are predator with a video camera. The only hard part is choosing to dedicate your life to that purpose. For Dave, I suspect that choice was easy. As far as Chamberlain, the man is a self-professed fool. The most interesting thing that he has learned in his lifetime of studying turkeys... by his own words....is not a factoid about turkeys. Instead, it was the fact that he was wrong about something. I.E. That his graduate school project was proven wrong by later research. What a fascinatingly backwards world we live in.
Quack quack.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Ben2]
#3458091
08/07/21 09:09 AM
08/07/21 09:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,802 LASW
turkey247
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,802
LASW
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Dang yall sure do hate on folks who enjoy hunting and posting about their successes. Seems like Dave still kills the heck out pf gobblers everywhere he goes so the hunting cant be that bad can it? Straight from our anti turkey hunting dr turkey minion
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: MorningAir]
#3458311
08/07/21 04:50 PM
08/07/21 04:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,920 colbert county
cartervj
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 18,920
colbert county
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I think if there were 5000 Dave’s it wouldn’t change what’s happening. Yeah, it sucks that so many people hunt now , but old timers were complaining about too many hunters from 1990 to 2010. Heck the difference is that now there aren’t as many bird so the pissedoffedness is at a level that can’t be overcome. I grew up within walking distance of the West Point corp land and you could get on birds every day there in the late 90s. I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard or seen a turkey there, or even heard of one being killed. YouTube attention whores or not, it is not ever going to be like to good ole days. That sh...t is over and out. Same thing happened to duck hunting AR in the 90’s long before the internet and Duck Dynasty the Cache and White River bottoms became federal refuges and the chit show began. I left AR in the late 90s because of it. Sadly it was all public land before it all hit but folks were nice and respectful, that all changed when the bottoms hit the federal refuge system. Arkansas was busy promoting Stuttgart was the duck hunting capital of the world and an 8 million dollar a day infusion of money. Maryland was warning Arkansas careful what you wish for since they were losing Canada goose hunting prestige they once held.
“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: turkey247]
#3458762
08/08/21 09:39 AM
08/08/21 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657 Pelham
Ben2
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657
Pelham
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Dang yall sure do hate on folks who enjoy hunting and posting about their successes. Seems like Dave still kills the heck out pf gobblers everywhere he goes so the hunting cant be that bad can it? Straight from our anti turkey hunting dr turkey minion Na man I have always loved turkey hunting and glad so many people enjoy it now days. I dont know anything about Dr. Turkey, but hope whatever he does helps grow the population in some way. If it does not well at least he tried instead of theeatening to beat someone uo who posts videos about turkey hunting on public land. But then again what do I know you are the know it all goat of turkeys so carry on.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459765
08/09/21 06:42 PM
08/09/21 06:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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I'm here. Let's get started. . . .
Couple things you should know, I'm here to participate until productivity fades because I welcome discussion. I'll gladly discuss anything turkey with anyone but when someone doesn't like me "because of his face" then I really can't help, I'm having to roll with what I have. *insert the face only a mother could love idiom* I have never admitted to being perfect. I have made mistakes. I am not afraid to say I was wrong when necessary. I listen.
I will defend what I do because I know it has more positives than negatives. Notice I did NOT say it comes without negatives. Everything comes with some degree of negativity unfortunately. A bulletproof engine does no favors for the mechanic right?
There are essentially 2 rabbit holes we can enter when discussing social media and turkey hunting. Hunting Culture and Increased Pressure. These 2 topics may converge at certain points but for the most part, can stand separated.
The degradation of the HUNTING CULTURE specifically surrounding the hunting of turkeys was the foundation of the Pinhoti Project and that continues, always will. I watched daily as the traditions and values brought to this "game" eroded (I signed out of social media entirely a year prior to Pinhoti due to being unable to stomach the disrespect). The values and principles described by the likes of Tom Kelly, Kenny Morgan and Gene Nunnery were being neglected by newcomers (and some not so new) to the sport. They were making a mockery of something I held very dear. It was appalling. Then I realized they may not be totally to blame. The VHS tapes and magazine articles I learned from were nearly extinct. Mentors are difficult to find. YouTube was the craze and it was saturated with the mockery I was witnessing. And as it was put to me "you fight fire with fire." Social media was the most efficient vessel to deliver the principles that were being ignored. I aimed to serve up a platform that could expose newcomers to the sport "the right way"- this was my opinion of course but one I felt most passionate turkey hunters could relate to. I have done that to the best of my ability. The before mentioned authors were doing this very thing in their writings, warning us of the perils we would face if the principles evaporated in time and there were no morals to sway our actions during the Spring. If anyone takes issue with me inconveniencing myself with a God-forsaken camera for every one of my Spring mornings for the last 4 years in the name of saving turkey hunting, the traditions that accompany it and the principles that it should be practiced by then by all means- grab the gear and try your hand at it. It must be done; I hope you recognize that. Because as I type, I'm sure there is some idiot taking a picture of a dead gobbler in Central Park in front of now newly enraged anti-hunters or some hot bikini model kissing the face of a decapitated longbeard. Get started, there are no off-days. I could go on for pages here and I'm certain it will eventually be demanded when the critics that refuse to slow down and see the big picture scream for such.
I'll move on toward the next rabbit hole- INCREASED PRESSURE and double back to something I mentioned before that could be seen as hypocritical, goodness knows there has been enough hypocrisy thrown around as of late. I wanted a platform that could assist in saving turkey hunting, the traditions that accompany it and the principles that it should be practiced by- is the increased pressure doing just the opposite? Absolutely not. Has the attention of YouTube turkey hunting caused more pressure? Absolutely. Does the increased pressure fall solely at the feet of YouTube? I just don't see how that can be so. Mapping software is giving more confidence than ever before. It's hard to miss an application deadline because agencies are sending email reminders. License sales are up across the board including fishing. Outdoor recreation as a whole has exploded over the past 2 years! Just look around- you're hard pressed to find a kayak on the shelves. Rock climbing, hiking, and heck anything outdoors is the most popular thing. In other words, the people were on their way to a national forest near you regardless of their streaming preferences. I for one am glad some of them found their way to the hunting license counter. The bigger question is, why do hunters hate other hunters? Recruitment is a positive thing. I'll start briefly with the stereotypical response on why that you probably expect - funding through license, guns, blah blah blah means conservation dollars. More hunters= more money. The pot of federal money that is "runneth over" now due to gun/ ammo/ etc sales doesn't make it's way back into the states hands unless they have the sale of a hunting license to provide so it in turn can be matched. So the more license ALABAMA sales the more of that "free" money the agency has to work with. Okay, stereotypical response number 1 out of the way. And number 2- talking big picture- we are still a minority to the population. We as hunters are not growing as quickly as the population. More important than the funding, in my opinion, is the voice. The average hunting license buyer is growing older every year, there will eventually be a cliff. I hope this increased interest has curbed that drab, long standing statistic. It's easy to ignore because it is so "big picture," we don't see our hunting rights infringed upon in the south after all, while the rest of the nation has seen a steady decline in hunters the southeast has held stable or even increased. Kudos to us! A ban on trapping in New Mexico barely goes noticed in Alabama. A very similar law hit the desk to your east in North Carolina, a little closer to home. The whack jobs in Oregon just introduced a direct threat to hunting and then the clown administration attempts to "back door" us, attempting to make it impossible to travel across state lines with ANY meat or carcass. As I digress from this 2nd stereotypical response just realize the larger the voice we have as hunters of any variety the more insulated our lifestyle will be from the attacks that are sure to come.
But p!ss on all that right? WHAT ABOUT OUR TURKEYS!?!
Hey! I agree, I like looking at what's happening here at home too. It's easier. More relatable. Question, when was the first time you heard the term poult recruitment or brood rearing habitat? what about poult per hen numbers? Unless you were in the world of wildlife academia, I'm guessing these weren't words used in typical dinner conversation. If you're a concerned turkey hunter they probably are now. Who would be surprised to know that the actual production of wild turkeys has shown dips since 2008 and by 2011 the declines were becoming widespread across the southeast? I'm not claiming to be a biologist or researcher and I'm not talking numbers to make them ring only to what I want to hear. But what I did find alarming was this issue we are facing is nearly a decade old and I don't recall any fussing over it until recently? Why? These issues were put on the desk of directors many moons ago. One professor emailed me a presentation delivered at the Wild Turkey Symposium in 2015 detailing the exact issues that are now "mainstream." This poses the question, if turkey hunting hadn't grown in popularity (regardless of the how- YouTube, Outdoor Channel, Covid, passenger pigeon, etc) over the last few years would these same issues still be sitting stagnant on someone's desk? If the importance of the resource hadn't grown, would we even know we have a "supply" problem? I believe the amount of publicity turkey hunting is receiving comes with impeccable timing. Will I lose some opportunity due to increased applicants? Possibly. It's a price I'm willing to pay to have a larger majority concerned about and willing to fight for the resource I hold dearly. Case in point, new organizations such as Turkeys for Tomorrow don't spring up without a motivated base and the National Wild Turkey Federation doesn't right itself from a multi-million dollar sinking ship without a powerful foundation. I am willing to make sacrifices to ensure that foundation is solid and growing. I like turkey hunters growing in numbers and in motivation. It's turkey hunters who will continue to ask questions until this "supply" issue we face is resolved. I'm also appreciative that avenues such as social media are available to help keep me aware of the problems, the scientific findings, some possible answers or even more questions we could be asking. With enough concerned voices we're sure to stumble upon the correct answers. I also really like that "our" enthusiasm has proven effective in holding some organizations accountable. I see this as a trend that will continue with an informed group of concerned hunters.
My response to the shortened season? Dislike. And here comes an explanation with a lot of "buts" in it. I hate watching opportunity vanish but do applaud the agencies for "doing something" and this appears a stand alone option for now. And as mentioned before, I am willing to make sacrifices. In the same breath I wish we had more answers. I saw shade cast toward Chamberlain- a researcher that has devoted his career searching for funding (and interest) to finding answers that for the longest period no one seemed to want. Now, everyone wants them. But, if we wait on those answers will it be too late for our resource? I become frustrated when other options aren't put on the table to reduce disturbance and harvest. Why are many WMAs so road happy? Lock the gates- widen the roads to alleviate the shortage of brood rearing habitat and "throw away the key." But that is still playing small ball, the majority of turkeys and turkey habitat lies in the hands of private landowners. Can we incentivize timber companies? They hold a lot of property. Why can't NGO's promote more predator control? Why are politics so heavily involved in the decisions that are affecting our wildlife (baiting)? Why can't we mention altering the methods used to kill turkeys without being attacked? Is over harvest really an issue? If eggs are fertilized, does it matter how many we kill? Regardless of how many males we have left in a population post season, I can't see that causing hens to carry 4 poults versus 1 to adulthood. Maybe there is a correlation I am unaware of (very possible). With the increased attention, lets hope we can get the brilliant minds among us to initiate research so we have a bit more solid ground to stand on. I do believe other options exist.
As a more of a "me" perspective; please realize I love wild turkeys. I hunted them for the same number of mornings before Pinhoti Project was a thing as I do now. I didn't work to save nearly as many then as I intend to now. I didn't realize I needed too, much like many I assume. I'm realizing now as a turkey hunter my responsibilities extend further than abiding by my self-assigned principles. I am realizing the cost of my hunting license and a $35 NWTF membership isn't enough. My price of admission was inadequate. I wake every day prepared to work as hard to save turkeys as I do to kill them during the Spring. Will I ever be able to convince some of you that is true? Unlikely. But I refuse to worry myself with those wanting to point fingers and play the blame game- I don't find it productive for the resource. I'm here in this forum because I care. Not about Dave Owens or the Pinhoti Project but about the message that social media has the power to carry to work for positivity for hunting and specifically turkey hunting.
I have just scratched the surface, I am aware. There are pages worth of side streets we could go down. So go ahead. . . let the bullets fly. Which side street would ya'll like to navigate first?
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459823
08/09/21 08:03 PM
08/09/21 08:03 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,911 Cullman
CKyleC
(Can't Keep It Up...)
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(Can't Keep It Up...)
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,911
Cullman
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Thanks for showing up. I hope folks can keep this productive.
I look forward to the conversation
"In Alabama, we prefer to kill small bucks on big properties"-Turkey247
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Ben2]
#3459831
08/09/21 08:14 PM
08/09/21 08:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Dave, good post imo. I enjoy your videos and even donate to the KT Team now because of your videos. I imagine many others have begun to spend their time and money to support groups like them that we would otherwise have never heard of. Please continue helping and videoing those special hunts as often as possible.
Appreciate ya! The annual PULL for the KT TEAM sporting clays shoot is weekend after next week. If you or some buddies want to partake let me know!
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459853
08/09/21 08:38 PM
08/09/21 08:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56 new orleans, la
sasquatch1
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56
new orleans, la
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Dave, to your first paragraph. I agree the (old school way was disappearing) and needed to change.
However the old way wasn’t disappearing because people didn’t know how to hunt that way, like you said it’s a full on culture change. We are in the instant gratification generation. These new guys aren’t watching your videos on how to hunt, they are looking for where to hunt!
So, while trying to show people the right way, I feel mostly the videos just showed people it was possible. It brought out thousands of people to the sport that don’t want to hunt the old school way! All the new people attracted are mostly hunters that go against what you was trying to accomplish!
Your videos showed the same people of the (new culture) confidence in trying public land.
There’s many like me who are definitely guilty in the sense of watching your hunts, however the ones like me were already hunting and being involved. You just gained views from my or should I say our kind as we were already on the same hunt style opinions. The NEW people youve drawn in are on the new culture side.
This is why the restrictions are coming in the form of opportunity not weapon restrictions, Jake restrictions or decoy restrictions. (Just a few examples)
Last edited by sasquatch1; 08/09/21 08:43 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459864
08/09/21 08:49 PM
08/09/21 08:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 329 Saraland, Al
Richard Cranium
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 329
Saraland, Al
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Thanks for sharing your side Dave. I think you'll find a majority of the finger pointers are just negative by nature. If you look at some of their post history they rarely have anything positive to say. I look forward to many more of your videos.
The American Indians found out first hand what happens when you don't control immigration!
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459879
08/09/21 09:10 PM
08/09/21 09:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,617 Hoover (poor section)
Johnal3
it froze over
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it froze over
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,617
Hoover (poor section)
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Says a lot about you to show up and try to dodge some of these “stones” that have been hurled at you. I agree with some, such as increased pressure that all youtubers bring. It’s possible it could’ve happened without it, but it sure didn’t help. Sure seems that duck hunting got so popular and went down hill after “Duck Dynasty” advertised it so much, along with ducks unlimited, etc etc. It doesn’t seem that duck recruitment has changed much for the good and the amount of hunters I bet has quadrupled at least since the 90’s. The personal attacks? Well, we already know what we need to about those people. The worst part about increased pressure to me is, I don’t know that we can change the guys sticking a decoy in a field they’ve had pictures of gobblers in for the last month and killin the fool out of them day after day. Now, that’s a legal way to hunt, and anybody that says anything about it is just a “holier than though” asshole. It’s hard not to think that lack of gobbling doesn’t come from a lot of this going on. I hate more rules and regs, so I don’t make to make it illegal, I just wish people wouldn’t go kill turkeys to see how many they can take pics of and post on social media and act like they’ve done something more than monitor a camera, spend money on scratch feed, and pull the trigger when he comes running across the food plot. It just doesn’t seem to be the “right” way that I learned….which is just another opinion. Hopefully you can have some good conversations and see both sides and maybe take something helpful away.
This is Aldeer! The place people come to vent their frustrations and completely change their stance a few minutes later...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459894
08/09/21 09:34 PM
08/09/21 09:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,396
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I used to always look forward to your “recaps” on GON 15 years ago. You and DJ were my inspiration to begin the public land super slam. When you started pinhoti, I was all aboard, because the content was relatable. At the time, I didn’t realize the repercussions that were to come. I’d imagine you may be in this same boat. I’m not one to call names, or pretend to know your motivations.
So here is the problem. Your intentions may have been to showcase the correct way to pursue these birds. It didn’t work. The new people are largely more worried about their social media pictures of fanned out gobblers, than the way they got them there. The old people hunt how they always have. The difference is this. You and THP have now given both groups the roadmap and incentive to travel in droves. When you combine that with Covid allowing those folks the freedom to travel, we’ve got a perfect storm. Think back 10 years ago. You and I both know plenty of fanatical turkey hunters in Georgia and Alabama. How many of them travelled and hunted public land? Almost none. You had certain people that would run to Texas or Nebraska every year and hunt private land, but otherwise stay in their home states. Today? You can be dang near to Canada in may, and there’s more people from Mississippi hunting than there used to be total hunters over the entire season. Places tend to be specifically harmed, when y’all showcase them. I’m sure that is part of the reason Chubbs has jumped off the bandwagon. His backyard has been showcased by you, catman, THP, the untamed, etc. As you know, there’s 10x the oosers now, compared to 5 years ago. Same for a lot of specific states.
So, at what point does the negative overtake the positive? Is it when our opportunities are cut back, because of record out of state pressure? Is it when you are dang near to Canada in late may, and can’t find a place to park because of all the Mississippi tags?
If I really saw an influx of new hunters who revered a long beard like I do, I could get on board with you. If I saw public lands being added, or turkey habitat being better managed because of license sales, I could get on board. But neither of those is happening.
I don’t blame you, or really expect you to step back. Your livelihood is now tied to continuing to believe, that the positives of Pinhoti outweigh the negatives. I really believe that you’re having the opposite effect than what you intended. These migrating masses of hunters, may kill turkey hunting culture forever. As opportunities become more regulated, public lands become more crowded, and hunter satisfaction diminishes, I fear that places like Alabama and Georgia will soon have the turkey culture of Idaho or Maine.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459964
08/10/21 06:51 AM
08/10/21 06:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316 NE Mississippi
deerhunt1988
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 316
NE Mississippi
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Although irreversible damage has already been done thanks to the YouTube, one the main arguments against could be somewhat mitigated by one simple action: QUIT NAMING STATES.
If you are in it to save the culture of turkey hunting, the decision should be easy. Why does it matter what state you are in?
Although increased public land pressure doesn't fall "solely" on YouTube, it falls majorly on it. OnX maps and COVID doesn't cause people to hop in their vehicle and drive directly to the region or even national forest or WMA that their favorite YouTubers hunt. YouTube causes that. Your own former sidekick admits it in a podcast. What is even more ironic is when these same turkey hunters who are following their YouTubers dress like them, wear the branded hats, and even have the stickers on their back glass. No, you can't blame OnX and COVID for that. When specific WMA applications see 40%+ rises in a single year due to YouTubers hunting there the year before and other WMAs in the state didn't see near that much of an increase, that ain't OnX and COVID.
When south zone Florida non-resident WMA quota applications see a 230% increase from 2018 to 2021, and WMAs in particular that you hunt on see the largest non-resident application increases (750%+), that ain't happenstance.
More hunters is more money for the state. But when the majority of those turkey hunters are now hunting on public land, we run into issues that can cause reduction in opportunity. Verbatim from a Georgia DNR biologist "Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands, we opted to make that opening date closer to peak incubation, which occurs around the second week of April in Georgia". I spoke with an Alabama DNR biologist who basically said the same for Bama's new statewide regs and 1:00PM closure.
So the Georgia public land hunter just lost at least a week off his season. Possibly more since new draw hunts have been established on popular WMAs for 2022. Why are draw hunts established? We all know the answer. If a Georgia or Bama hunter relies solely on public land to hunt, does statewide poult recruitment or brood rearing habitat really mean much to them? They can't manage the habitat on their public lands. Sure, they can trap a little, but that ain't really gonna change much. One thing that has changed though is major reduction in their hunting opportunity due to overexploitation of our public lands at dimes on the dollar.
You will "possibly" lose some opportunity? You already have, bud. Your south zone Florida WMA quota hunt days are nearing an end. You will now have to be drawn to hunt early season in Mississippi. Bama, 1-2 weeks lost on public lands. Georgia, already covered. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you can just hop in your truck and drive on to next state when it opens. What about the average working man who has a family and can only hunt on weekends and can't afford to travel? He would have been a hell of a lot better off without YouTubers screwing with his hunting, even with less turkey hunting revenue coming to his state DNR.
With that out of the way, we agree on 90% of issues:
You have in fact inspired some people to show a lot more respect for the wild turkey. On the other hand, you've inspired just as many to make it a numbers game.
You have helped spread light on the current issues facing wild turkey. On the contrary, many of your and THP's die-hard followers haven't been hunting very long and are part of this "The sky is following!" crowd because they came on board when turkey were doing better and they haven't hunted long enough to see the natural fluctuations in populations. This is also the same demographic that is very vocal on social media and actually aiding in reducing our turkey hunting opportunity. These new hunters got their public land bird(s) when times were better, but a bad hatch or two makes it difficult for them to #taggedout.The fact of the matter is, Mother Nature has always played a major role in turkey populations and we aren't going to change that.
There are a ton of research questions that need to be addressed before we go to slashing away opportunities. There are other avenues to save as many (if not more) gobblers from death other than season/bag limit reductions. This is easily agreed upon, but much more difficult to get action. And for all of our sake, I sincerely hope you, TFT, or ANYONE can get movement on it.
So to wrap this all up, why can't ya'll spare future reductions in public land opportunity by just quitting naming states? It'd be a valid compromise for all.
Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this combination of perfect storms causes us to lose turkey hunters. When folks get tired of overcrowded public lands, rising lease prices (due to turkey hunters having to have access to private to hunt their state's entire season), opportunity reductions and more restrictions.....Some will in fact gave it up! And I hate to say this, but I'm already looking forward to that day. I'd rather have less turkeys and a lot less turkey hunters than the crap show public lands/traveling turkey hunting has turned into since the YouTube/social media "hunting influencer" era came about.
Last edited by deerhunt1988; 08/10/21 07:00 AM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3459998
08/10/21 08:19 AM
08/10/21 08:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743 Lower AL
k bush
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity.
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460015
08/10/21 09:04 AM
08/10/21 09:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781 Huntsville
JUGHEAD
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,781
Huntsville
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I’m not gonna write a book though I could. I fell in love with Dave’s videos way before the Pinhoti Project because he chased turkeys “right” and inspired me to work to be a better caller. I haven’t been doing it as long as many on here, but I am a self-proclaimed “Lord’s annointed” as Mr. Kelly would say. I have a very deep admiration for God’s creation of the wild turkey, I killed em every way possible when I started, and it didnt take me too long to dive headlong into adding ethics-only based rules to myself on how I was gonna pursue them. I bet my mentor would testify that when he and I had a short-lived dabbling in fanning up turkeys for the first time and killed a few that I called us out on what a shortcut/lessening/instant gratification/cheating way of killing such a majestic creature that it was. I only use that as a single example to say that I humbly believe that I “get it”as a whole.
With all that said, I honestly believe that you have tossed the pearls of what we do to the swine Dave and they have trampled and crapped all over them. I do believe you had the best of intentions when you started Pinhoti, with a worthy goal of overshadowing the aforementioned methods and cheapening of turkey hunting. Unfortunately, in the sorta necessary evil of promoting yourself (social media etc.) in order to be able to do it, the pigs care not about how you killed him. But this self-worshipping culture that we live in LOVES to get behind his dead arse, smoke a cigar or put one out right by his beautifully colored head, hold them spurs up to the sky background (even if they shot him out of the damn truck or from behind a fan), and rush to post it on social media. WAY more about the attention they seek than what it is really about. IE they have attached to the worst part of what you do instead of the good. And you are doing WAY more damage than good IMHO.
Last edited by JUGHEAD; 08/10/21 09:45 AM.
"The only reason I shoot a 3.5" shell for turkeys is because they don't make a 4" one." - t123winters
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: k bush]
#3460058
08/10/21 10:18 AM
08/10/21 10:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800
North Jackson
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. Maybe the state should allow us to trap on WMA during turkey season. It’s open state wide on coons and coyotes and would be taking them out at the perfect time. Right now you have to stop Feb 28 which makes no sense and very few people do it.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460109
08/10/21 11:53 AM
08/10/21 11:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,054 AL
BamaGuitarDude
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,054
AL
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as a YouTube turkey hunting video content creator, i've taken a conservation-minded approach to hunter recruitment -- all the ones I've gotten interested in turkey hunting suck as bad or worse than me and don't kill chit ... so i've done my part to preserve the flocks for the future ...
ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: BamaGuitarDude]
#3460110
08/10/21 11:54 AM
08/10/21 11:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086
Northport, AL
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as a YouTube turkey hunting video content creator, i've taken a conservation-minded approach to hunter recruitment -- all the ones I've gotten interested in turkey hunting suck as bad or worse than me and don't kill chit ... so i've done my part to preserve the flocks for the future ...
Last edited by GomerPyle; 08/10/21 11:55 AM.
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: sasquatch1]
#3460122
08/10/21 12:49 PM
08/10/21 12:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Dave, to your first paragraph. I agree the (old school way was disappearing) and needed to change.
However the old way wasn’t disappearing because people didn’t know how to hunt that way, like you said it’s a full on culture change. We are in the instant gratification generation. These new guys aren’t watching your videos on how to hunt, they are looking for where to hunt! While this may be the case in some scenerios, I can say with certainty it is not true in all scenerios. I have private messages explaining how much more gratifying the experience has been since they've played by the old principles. Not to mention slowing the entire celebration down to prolong the experience. And during the 4 years of the Pinhoti project, I have hunted 30 states if my quick addition was correct, so the problem lies in sending people to 30 different states across the country? I totally agree the instant gratification generation is much to blame but I'm not finding any solutions in your comment on how to curb that culture? My approach was to expose them to "the experience" rather than just the kill. But I'm open to other suggestions. We can't ignore the newest generations if we expect to keep this hunting thing around.
So, while trying to show people the right way, I feel mostly the videos just showed people it was possible. It brought out thousands of people to the sport that don’t want to hunt the old school way! All the new people attracted are mostly hunters that go against what you was trying to accomplish! Again, so the answer is? Ignore all the new hunters, shun them and worry about ourselves? Trust me, I'd love to be the lone man on the ridge day in and day out hunting "my" turkeys. But I know that is not good for the resource because I alone can not fund and care for them. Eventually, I may still be the lone man on the ridge but "my" turkeys will be long gone without hope in restoring them. For now, my only answer is to expose the new hunters to the experience, hope it sticks and potentially try to sway some of the other existing media they're attracted to to do the same. Please realize I'm not the only content for new hunters to watch. The battle against questionable methodology is constant.
Your videos showed the same people of the (new culture) confidence in trying public land. I totally agree. My videos have shown people new to hunting and old to hunting the possibilities of travel. I along with the incredible advancement in mapping software that I continuously see ignored. It's like no one wants to mention it because EVERYONE uses it, myself included. Once upon a time I would pour weeks or more into printing google maps and tracing property boundaries. Transferring gps coordinates to a Garmin with a 3" dimly lit screen then marking those same points to a wax papered national forest map took of most of my nights. The amount of effort necessary to travel to foreign soil was staggering. Now, you can literally drive down the road, watch your blue pointer and wait for the shaded region to appear. Which I find much more tasteful when compared to that "shared waypoint" chasing epidemic. And this isn't an accusation because I've been just as guilty as anyone. Just an observation that shouldn't go ignored.
There’s many like me who are definitely guilty in the sense of watching your hunts, however the ones like me were already hunting and being involved. You just gained views from my or should I say our kind as we were already on the same hunt style opinions. The NEW people youve drawn in are on the new culture side. We need the strength that comes with the numbers. I believe for us as "old hunters" should instead of hating the new hunters because frankly they're coming whether you like it or not (again, its a good thing) we should attempt to mold them into responsible sportsman. Casting them aside isn't the way. They will build resentment for our values and essentially deny them for no reason other than that, they're ours. Expose them to passing a gate that's already occupied, expose them to backing out on a gobbling turkey because someone else is already working him and expose them to the importance of turkey hunters engaging with wildlife professionals and agencies to ensure we are putting as many turkeys on the landscape as we are taking off. Who else is going to do it?
This is why the restrictions are coming in the form of opportunity not weapon restrictions, Jake restrictions or decoy restrictions. (Just a few examples) Restrictions were coming, as I stated this turkey production trend started over a decade ago. We had turkey problems before YouTube, Bookface and the Gram. We were not/ are not making enough turkeys. I'm thankful now we have the popularity for the sport to fund new research, ask tough questions to agencies and motivate NGOs to address issues that have been long building without notice. We have a supply issue. When the supply issue is resolved the demand aspect will take care of itself. I suggest we start looking at solutions to the supply issue rather than passing blame as to who is responsible for the demand surge. Both are necessary for what we love. I appreciate your comment. I have attempted to address each point with my perspective. I challenge my way of thinking daily- am I doing the right thing? what could I change to do better? should I reconsider this? should I abandon that? My approach is always up for tailoring. Again, that's why I engage in forums such as this one when many would not due to their overall toxicity.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Richard Cranium]
#3460123
08/10/21 12:50 PM
08/10/21 12:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Thanks for sharing your side Dave. I think you'll find a majority of the finger pointers are just negative by nature. If you look at some of their post history they rarely have anything positive to say. I look forward to many more of your videos. These forums can be incredibly toxic, no doubt. I'm hoping we can construct some positivity here though.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Johnal3]
#3460128
08/10/21 12:59 PM
08/10/21 12:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Says a lot about you to show up and try to dodge some of these “stones” that have been hurled at you. I agree with some, such as increased pressure that all youtubers bring. It’s possible it could’ve happened without it, but it sure didn’t help. Sure seems that duck hunting got so popular and went down hill after “Duck Dynasty” advertised it so much, along with ducks unlimited, etc etc. It doesn’t seem that duck recruitment has changed much for the good and the amount of hunters I bet has quadrupled at least since the 90’s. The personal attacks? Well, we already know what we need to about those people. The worst part about increased pressure to me is, I don’t know that we can change the guys sticking a decoy in a field they’ve had pictures of gobblers in for the last month and killin the fool out of them day after day. Now, that’s a legal way to hunt, and anybody that says anything about it is just a “holier than though” asshole. It’s hard not to think that lack of gobbling doesn’t come from a lot of this going on. I hate more rules and regs, so I don’t make to make it illegal, I just wish people wouldn’t go kill turkeys to see how many they can take pics of and post on social media and act like they’ve done something more than monitor a camera, spend money on scratch feed, and pull the trigger when he comes running across the food plot. It just doesn’t seem to be the “right” way that I learned….which is just another opinion. Hopefully you can have some good conversations and see both sides and maybe take something helpful away. I agree. Legalities are a fine line in which we must toe during this time of turkey population troubles. I'd rather not see anyone's tactics infringed upon but for the sake of the resource I'm afraid it must be so. It's an alternative to loosing days and bag limits, my solely unscientific opinion. If we were making a surplus of turkeys it wouldn't need to be considered hence the reason I believe that should be our primary focus. Most critics of my position taunt the same "for sake of the resource," some are genuine (the reason I'm here) but most are not.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: ridgestalker]
#3460135
08/10/21 01:12 PM
08/10/21 01:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743 Lower AL
k bush
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. Maybe the state should allow us to trap on WMA during turkey season. It’s open state wide on coons and coyotes and would be taking them out at the perfect time. Right now you have to stop Feb 28 which makes no sense and very few people do it. I understand the issue with stopping earlier and the voids being filled by other predators. But, removing a number of nest predators lowers the overall density so nesting success should improve to a point. I’m a believer in raise more turkeys to have more turkeys.
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460136
08/10/21 01:16 PM
08/10/21 01:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,613 Spanish Fort
TurkeyJoe
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,613
Spanish Fort
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My main frustration is with the lazy management practices recently put in place throughout most of the turkeys range. The easiest target for regulation is legal gobbler harvest. This is being done, in my opinion, so the agencies can be seen as “doing something “. More poults are produced by trapping predators, and those extra turkeys are fed and kept healthy by planting chufas. These things cost money. Private land owners and leasers pay for it, because they love turkeys and turkey hunting. Imposing stricter regulations on legal gobbler harvest lowers incentive for the folks to spent their time and money. Less coons dead and less chufas planted. Easy solutions present themselves, such as using some of the corn lottery money on a bounty for coon and possum tails. Every turkey manager knows this will have a real-time, positive impact on poult recruitment, but the geniuses in charge of the resource will laugh you out of the room for mentioning it. Dave, I would personally like to see you use your platform to promote sound management practices, such as burning, trapping, and planting. Maybe it will help, but I think the DNR leadership (at least in Bama) are just like the rest of the politicians. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. Keep doing whatever you want to do, this is America. But don’t be surprised when the ol boys get ill watching you give away for free what they had to spend a lifetime earning.
Micah 6:8
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460163
08/10/21 02:10 PM
08/10/21 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002 Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002
Covington County
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Dave I appreciate you taking the time to come on here to share your prospective with this group. I do not know what the right answers are as I can see both sides of the coin. I personally think the increased pressure/numbers of hunters are a bad thing for the public land hunter and dwindling turkey population for many of the reasons already pointed out. I honestly feel sorry for the guys that only have public land to hunt. If that were my only choice these days, I'd go back to bass fishing.
I could get on board with increasing hunter numbers if these state agencies were truly using the surplus money generated for land purchase and research to find the answer to the problem, poult production!! I have seen several very educated people fail to bring that to the forefront when the opportunity was available to do so! With that said, I feel like the state of Alabama currently has the most incompetent leader in our game and fish departments history of existence. Under his leadership the state of Alabama is screwed in my personal opinion.
The game and fish agencies across much of the country have become politized and it's very unfortunate. Money is wasted and robbed, therefore never being utilized for the research and things you mention. Most states can't afford to hire CO's to enforce the current regulations on the books. I simply do not see the money generated from increased hunter recruitment/license sales being utilized for the necessary things that it should be used for.
I am one of the very people that cast shadow towards the turkey doc "Chamberlain". The man and his work simply do not impress me. He has spouted off a hypotheses (Dominate Gobbler) that is unproven!!! Several state agencies has taken this hogwash as the gospel and ran with it. He is one of the very folks that failed to mention poult recruitment as the number one issue with a declining turkey population. Until these state agencies and biologist bring that glaring issue to the forefront, they will never fix the problem. Arkansas is a prime example, adjusting hunting season and bag limits have failed them miserably. Why do these state agencies continue to throw the same crap against the wall and hope it sticks??
I will no longer support the NWTF because of what they have become. I will not support TFT for the simple fact I asked them how my money would be spent if I contributed to their cause. Never received a reply from those folks. Also their mission statement is vague and along the same lines as the NWTF. I personally want to support a group that their mission is to get answers to poor poult recruitment. I don't think working with state agencies that are politized will accomplish much in the current environment.
Out of all this that has taken place there is one positive, I've learned that we aren't producing turkeys, my eyes have been opened to that fact. I need to do more to help the turkeys on the property I control. In my personal opinion a little bit of effort can make a difference.
Last edited by Squeaky; 08/10/21 02:24 PM.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes to us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Atoler]
#3460169
08/10/21 02:30 PM
08/10/21 02:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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I used to always look forward to your “recaps” on GON 15 years ago. You and DJ were my inspiration to begin the public land super slam. When you started pinhoti, I was all aboard, because the content was relatable. At the time, I didn’t realize the repercussions that were to come. I’d imagine you may be in this same boat. I’m not one to call names, or pretend to know your motivations. Did the pursuit of the slam cause the world of turkey hunting to become more fulfilling for you? not the actual slam per say- but the nature of traveling to far of destinations to lock minds with a foe that was so familiar? I'm assuming that answer is yes because it did for me. Should I feel guilty for exposing someone who may have been in your (or my) shoes to that fulfilling experience much the way you were during those early GON days? Keeping it all for myself feels selfish. I want everyone to have that same feeling of accomplishment when I "strike gold" after tirelessly working over maps of far away land. Is that wrong? Maybe. It's still out for debate I suppose.
So here is the problem. Your intentions may have been to showcase the correct way to pursue these birds. It didn’t work. The new people are largely more worried about their social media pictures of fanned out gobblers, than the way they got them there. The old people hunt how they always have. The difference is this. You and THP have now given both groups the roadmap and incentive to travel in droves. When you combine that with Covid allowing those folks the freedom to travel, we’ve got a perfect storm. Think back 10 years ago. You and I both know plenty of fanatical turkey hunters in Georgia and Alabama. How many of them travelled and hunted public land? Almost none. So were are still assuming having more turkey hunters is a bad thing? You had certain people that would run to Texas or Nebraska every year and hunt private land, but otherwise stay in their home states. Today? You can be dang near to Canada in may, and there’s more people from Mississippi hunting than there used to be total hunters over the entire season. Places tend to be specifically harmed, when y’all showcase them. I’m sure that is part of the reason Chubbs has jumped off the bandwagon. His backyard has been showcased by you, catman, THP, the untamed, etc. As you know, there’s 10x the oosers now, compared to 5 years ago. Same for a lot of specific states. Chubbs is featured less due to logistics for 1, we are no longer neighbors. And secondly, because he doesn't like holding a camera. Simple as that. In order to create content you have to be mindful of a camera- he didn't like the camera as much as he'd thought and the ship sails on. We look forward to hunting together when the opportunity arises but we are both tunnel-visioned turkey hunters once spring arrives and seldom entertain anyone's plans but our own. Our opinions concerning social media and turkey hunting align more than they don't. In short, we both agree in many respects its degrading the thing we love most (why Pinhoti was created). My approach is to introduce positive influence into the space rather than letting the degradation run ramped. I'm unsure what his approach would be but I can't imagine sending social media on it's own course could be productive for our past time. As for pressure, no doubt it has increased. Glance back at my original response for the multitude of additional reasons why traveling to turkey hunt has exploded although I am not denying the fact YouTube has its influence. Videoing your hunts comes with responsibility. I refuse to allow anyone else to edit my content due to that fact. Being able to release more content would benefit me greatly. Unfortunately it's not an option, I will not allow it to happen simply because I intend to protect the areas I hunt. It's my responsibility to have first hand knowledge of what's going out for the public eye. Without local knowledge, I would find it extremely difficult to believe anyone can find my location with one exception.
So, at what point does the negative overtake the positive? Is it when our opportunities are cut back, because of record out of state pressure? Is it when you are dang near to Canada in late may, and can’t find a place to park because of all the Mississippi tags? So we are going to point fingers at a craze that started 3/4 years ago for a trend that originated a decade ago? I agree with the correlation. But it's just a correlation. Can we say for sure states would have not made these same decisions if YouTube didn't exist? No. My opinion is these changes were coming because again, our poult per hen numbers started tanking a decade ago. We have a turkey factory problem. Hens are not carrying enough poults to adulthood. If we concentrate on figuring out why that is the supply will match our demands and no one will lose opportunities nor will tactics be questioned.
If I really saw an influx of new hunters who revered a long beard like I do, I could get on board with you. Then I urge you realize that the negatives glare exceedingly brighter than the positives. I promise. Turkey hunting has gained popularity from a league of appreciative souls as well. They can be found if you look. I have a friend I can tell is on the fence about social media/ YouTube and made a statement that, "I can get behind what you do to a certain extent because I got this young kid that's started joining me in the mountains that's new to the game but he wears your hat, has a bicycle and a no-quit attitude. Plus he says people who use decoys are *expletive.*" While I don't want to pit any tactic against another, I do appreciate that he noticed the journey to killing a gobbler is much more enjoyable than the act itself. If I saw public lands being added, or turkey habitat being better managed because of license sales, I could get on board. But neither of those is happening. I don't know how else to approach this rather than saying that's entirely untrue. I suggest you look at fwc.com at the amount of acreage improved in Florida specifically for turkeys the past 2 years due to the sale of their turkey permit (hint- it's in the millions). Arkansas introduced a VOLUNTARY stamp that was a huge success because the concern for turkeys is a front runner for mind space currently. Rumor has it if you're an AL resident, more property is on it's way (I have no confirmation to point you toward at this point, maybe make a call?). This popularity of turkey hunting has research initiated across the country that could have possibly gone "undone" had it not been for the increase in spending power and influence of the newly motivated crowd. That research in itself could give us answers to our supply issue. There is SO MUCH good. But, a pessimistic attitude only views the glass half empty. I'm guilty as well. I am not denying the fact that on my initial observations I see much the same as you.
I don’t blame you, or really expect you to step back. Your livelihood is now tied to continuing to believe, that the positives of Pinhoti outweigh the negatives. I really believe that you’re having the opposite effect than what you intended. These migrating masses of hunters, may kill turkey hunting culture forever. As opportunities become more regulated, public lands become more crowded, and hunter satisfaction diminishes, I fear that places like Alabama and Georgia will soon have the turkey culture of Idaho or Maine. My question in response, without these masses of hunters- who is going to fund the conservation of our resource? who's voice is going to challenge the threats from ill-informed government officials who encroach on our right to hunt? or encroach on our hunting opportunities without well advised truth and reason for that matter? It is a complex balancing act I don't have the answers to. We have a demand without a matching supply. For now, I'm putting faith in our agencies to do the balancing with what little science they have. Whether I like it or not, until more answers are provided- this is the card we as sportsman must play.
I have addressed most of the concerns with another perspective that probably does nothing but create more questions. That's kind of the way I find every issue surrounding this goes. For every answer I think I am coming up with, another 2 questions originate. I hope my responses aren't seen as combative. We share many of the same concerns. I've just tossed and turned for hours at night while I should have been sleeping, trying to approach these issues from every angle attempting to make the correct choices.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460177
08/10/21 02:43 PM
08/10/21 02:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086
Northport, AL
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The important question is....Does Dave Owens put sugar in his cornbread?
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Gobl4me]
#3460182
08/10/21 02:53 PM
08/10/21 02:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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I appreciate the response and truly believe in the beginning the intentions were pure to some degree. However, it’s not worked the way you thought and that is apparent. It wasn’t anti-hunters or big city liberals that would take away our hunting opportunity and specifically public land hunting opportunities …….it was our very own. Men have been traveling the country for years hunting turkeys and keeping it under their hat. Turkey hunting is secretive by nature (or was). Now I’m not sure we can undo what’s been done. I know statistically we can look at license sales and specifically non-resident license sales since the rise of pinhoti project and thp the connections is easily made… the data is also clear to game managers around the country. Again, correlation. Not causation. There are many factors at play here. I will accept some of the blame. But I will not apologize for motivating or creating more turkey hunters. Another viewpoint, the increase in turkey hunters will save our opportunities. Turkey numbers once upon a time were thought to be, "mission accomplished, they'll take care of themselves from here on out." The current environment says that belief was a mistake. Our invigorated crowd has pushed turkeys to the top of the species in which agencies and wildlife professionals will funnel their attentions. And it's very likely that the mistakes of the past may never happen again.
To address your other mention that I though was interesting concerning the "secrecy" of turkey hunting. Many point to the likes of Tom Kelly, Gene Nunnery, among others in telling the tales of old turkey hunting. Thank goodness these gentlemen had the foresight to realize without the distribution of the knowledge and understanding they acquired over lifetimes of hunting- the potential for that hunting to withstand the test of time was bleak. They used pen and paper which we have now replaced with keyboards. They used the social media of their era to administer the principles and traditions that should govern turkey hunting. How could one that kills turkeys, speaks lightly and recruits no one be productive for our sport? That should be viewed as pure selfishness. I'm thankful the before mention authors were not of that crowd. Again, this response is not intended to challenge or attack. I'm providing my stance regardless of how skewed some may feel my intentions are.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Squeaky]
#3460214
08/10/21 03:55 PM
08/10/21 03:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743 Lower AL
k bush
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
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Dave I appreciate you taking the time to come on here to share your prospective with this group. I do not know what the right answers are as I can see both sides of the coin. I personally think the increased pressure/numbers of hunters are a bad thing for the public land hunter and dwindling turkey population for many of the reasons already pointed out. I honestly feel sorry for the guys that only have public land to hunt. If that were my only choice these days, I'd go back to bass fishing.
I could get on board with increasing hunter numbers if these state agencies were truly using the surplus money generated for land purchase and research to find the answer to the problem, poult production!! I have seen several very educated people fail to bring that to the forefront when the opportunity was available to do so! With that said, I feel like the state of Alabama currently has the most incompetent leader in our game and fish departments history of existence. Under his leadership the state of Alabama is screwed in my personal opinion.
The game and fish agencies across much of the country have become politized and it's very unfortunate. Money is wasted and robbed, therefore never being utilized for the research and things you mention. Most states can't afford to hire CO's to enforce the current regulations on the books. I simply do not see the money generated from increased hunter recruitment/license sales being utilized for the necessary things that it should be used for.
I am one of the very people that cast shadow towards the turkey doc "Chamberlain". The man and his work simply do not impress me. He has spouted off a hypotheses (Dominate Gobbler) that is unproven!!! Several state agencies has taken this hogwash as the gospel and ran with it. He is one of the very folks that failed to mention poult recruitment as the number one issue with a declining turkey population. Until these state agencies and biologist bring that glaring issue to the forefront, they will never fix the problem. Arkansas is a prime example, adjusting hunting season and bag limits have failed them miserably. Why do these state agencies continue to throw the same crap against the wall and hope it sticks??
I will no longer support the NWTF because of what they have become. I will not support TFT for the simple fact I asked them how my money would be spent if I contributed to their cause. Never received a reply from those folks. Also their mission statement is vague and along the same lines as the NWTF. I personally want to support a group that their mission is to get answers to poor poult recruitment. I don't think working with state agencies that are politized will accomplish much in the current environment.
Out of all this that has taken place there is one positive, I've learned that we aren't producing turkeys, my eyes have been opened to that fact. I need to do more to help the turkeys on the property I control. In my personal opinion a little bit of effort can make a difference. Mike, I appreciate your voice on this issue and know that your actions back up your words. I can't comment on Dave's message because I have watched less than 30 minutes of his product and none of THP or the others mentioned. I just don't watch any hunting shows either on over-the-air or internet. I do watch videos from the likes of Dr Grant Woods and videos from the MSU Deer Lab and some that Dr Craig Harper has been a part of. I've also recently taken to listening to podcast from some of those just mentioned and others in the realm of habitat management and trapping. From personal experience I've seen what an aggressive nest predator removal program can do. On a river bottom property that always had turkeys to seeing no flocks in the fall for years and only hearing a few birds gobble in the spring. After removing 150 nest predators in a year seeing at least 2 hens with 19 poults the following spring. Continued trapping and now see turkeys in good numbers but nothing like the past. Recruitment is the key. Hopefully I can get fire in the areas where it's appropriate and herbicide applications in the areas that cannot be burned.
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460223
08/10/21 04:05 PM
08/10/21 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,540 Spanish Fort
ozarktroutbum
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,540
Spanish Fort
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It's not as much "Dave Owens" that is causing the issues. If you were to ask me this 3-4 years ago my answer would have been different, though.
Personally, I HATE the YouTube culture and the way hunting has become a part of it. I long for the days when you could only watch hunting via the outdoor channel or by buying videos at the store. There's no way in hell the hunting video folks (real tree, primos, mossy oak, etc) are putting out those videos on the shelf like they used to. They are all on YouTube now.
I hate how the public land concept has been glorified and I hate the way Dave has done it along with all the other characters that are YouTube famous.
Some folks only have access to public land. Some folks have access to private land, but choose to spend their days hunting at the WMA's because its more fashionable to post your kill pics in front of the gate.
Don't kid yourself. The majority of the videos is about THE KILL...and making sure everyone sees it, and how you do it. Turkey hunting is difficult and you are exceptionally good at it. I'm not saying you're not providing good insight regarding other topics along the way, but that really does not appear to be the focus of the videos from the ones I have seen.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460247
08/10/21 04:51 PM
08/10/21 04:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651 Longwood, FL
jlbuc10
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
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I now live in the quota hunt world being that I live in Florida. I’ve hunted both turkey and ducks on quota and non quota land. The hunting is infinitely better in the quota hunt areas. The quota turkey hunt I went on this year looks exactly like the habitat I hunt in open permit places. It is comparable in size and they don’t do anything different habitat management wise. On the quota hunt I heard at least 12 different birds in 2 days and my buddy and I both killed mature birds. Only 2 weekends are open for this quota and 7 birds were killed off this property. I hunted about 10 days on 3 different open permit wma’s and only heard one gobble and saw 2 hens the entire time. Habitat type is comparable, location is similar, habitat management is the same. The only difference is the amount of hunters they allow and the harvest numbers. If days of the season and killing turkeys isn’t a factor in population why is there such a large difference in the quality of the hunt on quota vs non quota hunts? It makes sense to me at least in what I’ve witnessed that killing less turkeys and hunting less days improves the quality of hunting on WMA’s. It makes since to me that shortening the season and lowering bag limits would clearly improve the population. IMHO I would rather go on 1 great turkey hunt a year than go on 10 where I don’t see or hear anything.
Last edited by jlbuc10; 08/10/21 04:52 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460354
08/10/21 07:30 PM
08/10/21 07:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048 Sylacauga
doecommander
things that make you go hmmmmmmm
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things that make you go hmmmmmmm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,048
Sylacauga
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My only question is what happened to a Chubbs? The videos went way downhill without him……
doecommander out...........................
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: doecommander]
#3460375
08/10/21 07:47 PM
08/10/21 07:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,429 Helena
3toe
Talking Turkey
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Talking Turkey
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,429
Helena
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My only question is what happened to a Chubbs? The videos went way downhill without him…… He answered that in one of his posts above.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3460718
08/11/21 11:45 AM
08/11/21 11:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086
Northport, AL
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One statistic I'd love to know the answer to (although I doubt there's any reasonable way to get an accurate estimate) is what percentage of these newly recruited hunters that are apparently flooding public lands stick with it more than a year or 2. I ask because, frankly, turkey hunting is hard. And it's exponentially harder on public land than on private land for a variety of reasons. I can't help but think that a lot of these "new hunters" watch some videos that make it look a lot easier than it actually is, go out and give it a try only to get their ass kicked a few times and say "f--- it, I'll go fishing". That's why I don't get too worked up over the youtube thing...the kind of folks that are only flooding to areas because of some youtube videos likely won't be there long.
I mean, you'd have to be a brainless, window-licking IDOT to go out year after year chasing these damn birds on public land with virtually no success, and continue to do it....
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Gobl4me]
#3460741
08/11/21 12:38 PM
08/11/21 12:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 639 Smuteye
Orion34
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 639
Smuteye
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Traveling all over the country wholesale slaughtering turkeys and encouraging others to do the same…..then talking about “the resource” is baffling to me. Yep. And then to have the hubris to suggest that he’s somehow upholding a simpler way of hunting turkeys in the tradition of the early icons. All the while using modern technology and advantages never conceived of by Gene Nunnery and others.
Last edited by Orion34; 08/11/21 12:39 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461228
08/11/21 11:12 PM
08/11/21 11:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,495 Guntersville
AC870
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 16,495
Guntersville
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Wasn’t it Catman had that lil girl launch one off a tree?
“Killing tomorrow’s trophies today.”
On the distance I like to walk to my stands: “The first 100 yards is also the last 100 yards.”
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: MorningAir]
#3461423
08/12/21 11:01 AM
08/12/21 11:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086 Northport, AL
GomerPyle
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
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Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,086
Northport, AL
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What would be cool is for the you tubers to do a full season and not kill any birds. Get video footage of the birds and distance from the camera, etc. Basically do everything except take the animal. I think that would be a cool series showing that they could’ve taken the bird but did not. I think they should try counting coup on camera.
There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:
1. All Politicians Are Liars 2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement 3. Taxation Is Theft
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461424
08/12/21 11:02 AM
08/12/21 11:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461449
08/12/21 11:39 AM
08/12/21 11:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 639 Smuteye
Orion34
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 639
Smuteye
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
I’m sure you’re right and they won’t stop. But their sponsors might take note. #cancelculture
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461519
08/12/21 01:58 PM
08/12/21 01:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651 Longwood, FL
jlbuc10
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,651
Longwood, FL
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
Pot calling the kettle black from a guy that has a YouTube channel that hunts on public land
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461539
08/12/21 02:21 PM
08/12/21 02:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743 Lower AL
k bush
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
No viewers = No Sponsors = No $
Last edited by k bush; 08/12/21 02:21 PM.
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461579
08/12/21 03:12 PM
08/12/21 03:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663 Alabama
OlTimer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663
Alabama
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
I'm a capitalist as well but, they are using a public resource for profit paid for by taxpayers (you and I). Would it be cool to go cut trees and sell them on these lands? Go make videos on leased or private property. People been doing that for years and making money.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: jlbuc10]
#3461583
08/12/21 03:15 PM
08/12/21 03:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645 Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
OP
Booner
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OP
Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,645
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.
Pot calling the kettle black from a guy that has a YouTube channel that hunts on public land Well, I do have a YouTube channel but I haven’t uploaded anything since July 2020 and have no plans to continue. I’ve mentioned several times on here that I learned my lesson the hard way. Even with my very small following I realized I was having a negative effect on myself and others. People knew who I was, what I drove and where I hunted.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. Job 33:4
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: deerhunt1988]
#3461597
08/12/21 03:30 PM
08/12/21 03:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Hi Nathan, So glad you could make it. I assume you've already rallied your band of . . . let's call them "contributors" for lack of a better term (I'm sure they're already here, I'm working through this thread one reply at a time). I've anticipated your input considering your involvement in every single facebook group, hunting forum, and any other platform that would allow you to deliver your "infinite wisdom" regardless of it's merit. All of this coming through those wretched social media outlets you claim to despise while sharing your travels and turkey killing sprees from across the country none the less. So lets address your comments below Although irreversible damage has already been done thanks to the YouTube, one the main arguments against could be somewhat mitigated by one simple action: QUIT NAMING STATES. If you are in it to save the culture of turkey hunting, the decision should be easy. Why does it matter what state you are in? How I display my hunts are always under evaluation. I'm always up for suggestions for change. You've screamed this state naming jargon time and time again. I've considered it. I can't even tell you if it's completely off the table. But what I do know is that it will not cause you or your mob to cease in undermining any accomplishment anyone from YouTube achieves. You'll simply pick another insignificant facet to attack us over and continue right on down the same ole road. You're supposedly a "numbers guy" so check out the numbers on these 2 photos pulled straight from my analytics. YouTube Search Search KeywordsSo just so you understand those numbers. That means less than 11% of my viewers get there due to a search which you insist is causing massive crowds. Then of that percentage- if anyone is searching for Mississippi turkey hunting or Alabama turkey hunting the number is so small is doesn't even show up in the analytics (granted this is from the last 28 days, I can't get full channel analytics from such specific parameters). Will I change the way I word my video titles, I can't be certain as of right now, never say never right? I can say I don't see it's significance as long as whomever is posting the video takes the effort to ensure the specific location is protected. The truth is, people across the country are excited about turkey hunting, period. So they're making their way to states like MS, AL, GA and FL because that's where they're allowed to hunt. I'll gladly take credit for some of the new enthusiasm behind turkey hunting if you wish- I will not apologize for it- but accessibility is why these states see the non-residents early. They want to hunt and that's where it happens. If we had a supply surplus to match the demand there would be no issue. And to extend that train of thought, I've hunted every state with a March opener since Pinhoti became a thing, why would my presence being in any specific state matter? I've had exceptional hunts in each state. They're all great hunting. But circling back, turkey hunting has been/ continues to be life changing for me. If I expose a single individual out there amongst the "evil interwebs" to a passion they would have otherwise died without I'm satisfied. And I suppose that means I'm willing to continue to debate senseless points with the likes of you as well. So we will carry on. . . Although increased public land pressure doesn't fall "solely" on YouTube, it falls majorly on it. Majorly huh. . . I'm assuming you have more concrete numbers from an anonymous source to confirm the value of majorly? You don't. First off because majorly doesn't have a value and because they don't exist. There have been so many advancements and changes to the scene of hunting within the last handful of years working simultaneously it would be impossible to designate percentages. Does YouTube factor into a part of the percentage? Absolutely. I've said that, repeatedly. OnX maps and COVID doesn't cause people to hop in their vehicle and drive directly to the region or even national forest or WMA that their favorite YouTubers hunt. YouTube causes that. Nice opinion. Mine is that YouTube gives people the motivation, OnX (or huntstand or the GIS maps most state agencies offer now) give people the confidence and Covid gives those people the time. Time to create lasting, unforgettable memories much like the ones you and I tell about our turkey hunting adventures while sitting around a campfire, am I right? I reckon we should be the only ones allowed to do this? Your own former sidekick admits it in a podcast. Just an FYI, in case it needs to be said, Chubbs has no issues taking his Alabama gobblers annually despite what you may think. Was it a surprise that he has seen increased pressure? Did you think while everyone else is seeing pressure he wasn't? I laugh at the fact that people pretend hunting pressure didn't exist before 2019. You can see us deal with it on multiple occasions and actually more in AL and GA before we released the first season. It was one of the points we wanted to address in the videos- pressure- and how you were to deal with it -right or wrong- I've accomplished both in my time with the camera. Showing the necessity in avoiding crowded gates when possible and treating fellow hunters with respect. And also illustrating that public land (and hunting in general) isn't all rainbow and unicorns. In one situation we had a guy blow a gobbler out of the tree after telling us he would back out (he came up behind us). I hope that video taught some unknowing turkey hunter to "not be that guy." That being said- what Chubbs eluded to was the importance of keeping the areas we video in concealed. Can you point me toward an Alabama video on my channel where our location was exposed? Without local knowledge, its highly doubtful. As I stated before, if I screw up I'm not too proud to accept fault. But I don't think this is one of those times. Concealment has ALWAYS been of utmost importance for us. What is even more ironic is when these same turkey hunters who are following their YouTubers dress like them, wear the branded hats, and even have the stickers on their back glass. No, you can't blame OnX and COVID for that. I suppose I'm missing the "gotcha" here and perhaps we are touching on your real issue with YouTubers. You don't like seeing other people on "your" public land combined with it's not your brand they're displaying on their hats or the back windows. People purchase and display a brand they can affiliate with- folks wear a Braves hat because they like Freddie Freeman, they wear the MossyOak emblem because they live the lifestyle. I hope people wear the Pinhoti logo because they want to be affiliated with a brand that represents an absolute passion for everything turkey worn by a guy that has given up d@m+ near everything for the opportunity to chase and help them as much as he can on his trip through life. But lets circle back to the imperative nature of keeping locations disguised since we are on the topic of IRONY. Why have you refused to apologize for a lapse of your own? I have openly apologized for any screw-up I've ever made. Or do you even see a problem with it? are your actions exempt? You were quick to point out my unwillingness to quit naming states when I invited you to dinner last month but failed to mention the other conservation initiatives I was tackling this off season; so I thought it was worth mentioning your refusal to accept fault in this meme. Why is this still available for anyone's viewing pleasure? Ironic PhotoWhen specific WMA applications see 40%+ rises in a single year due to YouTubers hunting there the year before and other WMAs in the state didn't see near that much of an increase, that ain't OnX and COVID. When south zone Florida non-resident WMA quota applications see a 230% increase from 2018 to 2021, and WMAs in particular that you hunt on see the largest non-resident application increases (750%+), that ain't happenstance. Do we really need to revisit the necessity in keeping locations concealed? And also another request for the video where I have ever mentioned applying for a quota hunt or hunting a specific WMA in Florida. One will notice also when arriving in Florida going off "into the Cypress" is the equivalent of saying "off into the hardwoods" or "into the river bottom." Cypress is a habitat type in Florida, it's everywhere- folks have the freedom to assume all they want. Without local, "I've been there before" knowledge- one would be hard pressed to find our locations. Have the amount of hunters Florida bound in March increased? Yes. Am I a contributor to those numbers? Yes. Probably more so than any other place. Have I questioned whether sharing my hunts in Florida had an overall negative effect? Sure I have. Thankfully, the demands of hunting Florida self-regulate. You yourself said hunting Florida's general access was a no-go for you and I would consider you a avid turkey hunter, willing to do what many wont. And as far as "WMAs in particular I hunt" . . . you would be hard pressed to find a public area in Florida I haven't been on the past 17 years. So "particular" will be comical for those in the know. The friends I have made in Florida see the pressure but are amused by the rhetoric. They're a special breed that hunt that place, they understand what it takes to be consistently successful in that environment and don't ever seem to run into issue with finding their turkeys. I wouldn't trade my worst day in that he!!hole for anything. More hunters is more money for the state. But when the majority of those turkey hunters are now hunting on public land, we run into issues that can cause reduction in opportunity. Verbatim from a Georgia DNR biologist "Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands, we opted to make that opening date closer to peak incubation, which occurs around the second week of April in Georgia". I spoke with an Alabama DNR biologist who basically said the same for Bama's new statewide regs and 1:00PM closure. Come on man, you're cherry picking words as bad as CNN. "Due to our observations of prolonged poor poult recruitment and our desires to delay harvest as a result. . . now you can insert your - because hunting pressure- piece. News flash- hunting pressure has always been higher on public land. That shouldn't come as a surprise right? While the pressure may have increased, the bigger issue is still a supply problem. It just so happens when this pressure increase happened the supply decreased. If we could focus our efforts on making more rather than passing blame around it would most certainly be a better use of our time. So again, reduced opportunity is due to decreased reproduction (long standing, proven issue) and increased pressure (new issue). So the Georgia public land hunter just lost at least a week off his season. Possibly more since new draw hunts have been established on popular WMAs for 2022. Why are draw hunts established? We all know the answer. If a Georgia or Bama hunter relies solely on public land to hunt, does statewide poult recruitment or brood rearing habitat really mean much to them? They can't manage the habitat on their public lands. Sure, they can trap a little, but that ain't really gonna change much. One thing that has changed though is major reduction in their hunting opportunity due to overexploitation of our public lands at dimes on the dollar. There is so much wrong with your logic. How could any turkey hunter not be concerned with poult recruitment and brood rearing habitat? Why is it so automatic that they can't help with both on public lands? I find it alarming that is your message to public land hunters as a state wildlife biologist. Why aren't you looking for solutions rather than excuses? Why aren't you busy looking for ways to motivate public land users to trap more? how can you say trapping "ain't really gonna change much?" One guy running a dozen dog-proof traps, maybe (although I still say a dead coon doesn't find eggs) -I know what the science says- which is an intensive trapping effort is necessary and precisely why we should be looking to get dozens of public land hunters to run a dozen traps each (or more). If there are that many hunters available to hunt turkeys there should be that many hunters willing to save turkeys. And since you mentioned new quotas in Georgia- its a perfect example of the importance of having a "voice" as hunters. Strictly my opinion, but putting such a vast amount of acreage into a quota system in conjunction with removing the first almost 3 weeks of the season is excessive. The concern was the amount of harvest per square mile (while poult recruitment sputtered and yes I have spoke to this biologist) yet area management has opened more and more gates on those areas over the past decade (you can literally drive everywhere now). When asked about reducing harvest through gate closure I got a "we may need to consider that as an option" response. Afterall, the more gates that were opened the more the harvest rose. I'm an advocate for rewarding effort. If a guy is willing to walk 4 miles then he deserves it, at least give him the chance to do so. As one in your clan announced, "I don't think you should have to walk 10 or 11 miles to hear a turkey gobble," I respectfully disagree. I think some days we should absolutely need to put forth that amount of effort and I'm also of the class that. . . we may not hear a turkey gobble every day. You will "possibly" lose some opportunity? You already have, bud. Your south zone Florida WMA quota hunt days are nearing an end. You will now have to be drawn to hunt early season in Mississippi. Bama, 1-2 weeks lost on public lands. Georgia, already covered. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you can just hop in your truck and drive on to next state when it opens. What about the average working man who has a family and can only hunt on weekends and can't afford to travel? He would have been a hell of a lot better off without YouTubers screwing with his hunting, even with less turkey hunting revenue coming to his state DNR. We will resort to a few more "broken record" responses here due to your reluctance to see the big picture and never waning desire to play the blame game. We have a supply issue. If we work for solutions to the decade old dwindling poult recruitment numbers, we will have enough turkeys to open generous amounts of opportunity. I'm confident in that. Without the exposure to the issues wild turkeys have been facing over the past decade (that had gone ignored), the working man may have been able to live out his days with a turkey to hunt but would his kids? If turkeys hadn't risen to the top of the list of "most concerned" would this working mans grandkids talk about wild turkeys like many old timers do about quail? Yes, losing opportunity sucks. I think many agencies are "playing it safe" as their only option because we don't have the information available to tell them otherwise at the moment. That will change. The only concrete information they have to pull from says that reduced opportunity means reduced harvest. I can only make the assumption attempts are being made to pad carryover numbers (and facilitate that simultaneous nest incubation date) to assist in the overall population reduction until we figure out why our reproduction is lack luster. But, research is underway and I pray it comes with other alternatives. While hunting opportunities may be seeing reductions in some areas, there are still opportunities for those willing to put forth the effort, Florida (which you pointed out) is an example. With that out of the way, we agree on 90% of issues: You have in fact inspired some people to show a lot more respect for the wild turkey. On the other hand, you've inspired just as many to make it a numbers game. Nice pat on the back while kicking me in the groin. It's impossible for you to give a compliment huh? It must really be a drain to wake up daily surrounded with such negativity. Much effort has been given to avoid and/ or curb those now chasing death tolls. It's sickening. I have found far fewer than you considering your claim it's "just as many" but will not deny they exist. Unfortunately, there will always be a few bad apples who will lie, cheat and steal to feed their desires. It happens across the globe. We (those of us hunting 20+ years) are probably guilty as well to some degree. I believe wanting to kill kill kill is a part of the maturity of a turkey hunter. I shamefully remember a time when blood was a #1 desire (and this happened without YouTube). Turkey hunters go through phases- it's described in works such as the Old Pro Turkey Hunter which dates back to the authors beginnings in the 1920s. I'm unsure if the phase is even avoidable. We need to make certain that it is just a phase and look to expedite its completion. I've watched some appear to get stuck in that phase (especially if they're showcasing it on YouTube or the like). This mindset also rears it's ugly head in people chasing some type of "slam" regardless of which variety; it's a kill at all cost attitude. It's not productive and is spawned from greed, another undesirable trait. Stress to turkey hunters new and old that it's less to do with the "how many" and more to do with the "overall how." I'm attempting to reach as many turkey hunters as possible with that message. You have never and will never hear me speak of kill counts. I'm asked multiple times a season, "how many does that make for you" or "how many cigars is that now" and you will find those questions fall unanswered. It's not important. I'm trying my very best to show and sell the hunt not the conclusion through my content. The quicker we can rush new hunters through that kill phase the better off the resource will be, causing them to skip it would even be better. You have helped spread light on the current issues facing wild turkey. On the contrary, many of your and THP's die-hard followers haven't been hunting very long and are part of this "The sky is following!" crowd because they came on board when turkey were doing better and they haven't hunted long enough to see the natural fluctuations in populations. This is also the same demographic that is very vocal on social media and actually aiding in reducing our turkey hunting opportunity. These new hunters got their public land bird(s) when times were better, but a bad hatch or two makes it difficult for them to #taggedout.The fact of the matter is, Mother Nature has always played a major role in turkey populations and we aren't going to change that. Gee, thanks for the compliment-ish, you're still finding that difficult it appears. I can agree with your sentiments regarding a "the sky is falling" mentality (I assume that's what you meant). I don't see it. A slight overall reduction, sure, but not a "mass decline" as put by one of your co-host. But I understand that terminology was necessary for the sell of his narrative regardless of it's implications. I digress. I see the arguments surrounding the turkey decline falling into 3 major groups- the old timers who experienced the boom of the late 90s when turkeys occupied marginal habitat because their populations peaked following the trap and transfer efforts. They expect to still hear 10 or more gobblers each morning and not sit down until they find one that cuts every single call, until then they haven't found one "that's ready." I think this is an unreal expectation unless the agencies get back into the business of trapping and transferring birds again. Even then, I'm not sure we would see those types of responses due to the degradation of habitat since the 90s and I wholly believe those measures are not necessary. The opposite end of the spectrum you have (already discussed within this post) the "instant gratification" crowd. This league of hunters expects results with little to no effort. If they devote a day to something they deserve a reward. This crowd thrives in the dawn of the methodology crutches. But if they are refused success then there is obviously a shortage of turkeys. Again, another wildly misinformed sector. In the middle we have a crowd that does just that, falls in the middle on the issues at hand. I fall there. Do I agree we have an overall decrease in turkey numbers. A dash of that opinion formulated from my own observations but the majority of the opinion falling on accounts received from worthy, trusted sources and the data provided through science (those numbers you love). I strongly agree with your opinion on much of our immediate issues being weather related. It's a contributor to this issue we simply can not fix. There will be good years and there will be bad years. This is why I question the states acceptance of rigid season guidelines for so long. My opinion, we need annual evaluations and differing seasonal frameworks to choose from- perhaps a conservative and liberal framework (jesus, please don't make this political) that will respond to the quality of reproduction and harvest. Essentially, if we made a lot of turkeys open up the opportunity; if we struggled in production restrict the opportunity for the sake of the resource. This type of evaluation already occurs in waterfowl and should be adapted for turkeys. Many issues this type of idea will encounter, starting with our ability to count turkeys, especially poults. But I do not think that is reason enough to pull it from consideration. Frankly, I've grown tired of excuses such as "that requires legislature, it'll be very difficult." Difficult questions often require difficult answers and we have difficult questions. Turkeys need a team of players that are willing to fight through difficultly to implement changes that will prove beneficial. If this means diving into the politics of the environment to battle agricultural practices or the like, sign me up. I'm for the resource and will gladly watch anything I've built go up in flames fighting for it. And as I move on from this topic, I'll mention your negative position for all things "new hunter" evident again in this passage. The "more hunters are reducing my opportunity" argument will find us selfishly standing on the ridgeline, alone much to our pleasure, without a turkey to hunt- much to our displeasure. You are still pointing fingers rather that looking for an answer to our reproductive struggles. There are a ton of research questions that need to be addressed before we go to slashing away opportunities. There are other avenues to save as many (if not more) gobblers from death other than season/bag limit reductions. This is easily agreed upon, but much more difficult to get action. And for all of our sake, I sincerely hope you, TFT, or ANYONE can get movement on it. We can agree on this subject. I too believe there are other options that should be put on the table. Difficulty in action circles back around to getting into agency politics like before mentioned. Let's use the research to get hard numbers to face these opponents, gather a willing number of volunteers to go to war using those numbers and do something productive here while we have an environment filled with concerned turkey hunters. And just an FYI, it's already underway. Many folks (instead of whining on hunting forums) are working tirelessly at searching for answers and proposing changes that will no doubt be beneficial for wild turkeys. Anyone else cut a $35k check to single handedly initiate research? THP has. Also, look for big announcements from TFT in the next week or so (as soon as the paperwork is finalized). So to wrap this all up, why can't ya'll spare future reductions in public land opportunity by just quitting naming states? It'd be a valid compromise for all. I think you can refer to the above on my explanations for the flaw in this logic and it's insignificance. When this doesn't work as well as you imagine (and it won't), you'll then be demanding we not hunt in March or not release turkey content until July. The harsh reality is you will never cease in attempting to derail turkey content because it adds difficultly to your endeavors. You are incapable to accepting failure on your part and instead vigorously search for another place to pass the blame. Because of course, it must be someone else's fault. You'll continue to seethe while smashing the thumbs down on every one of my videos. I understand that, I've accepted that. I realize I can not win over everyone regardless of how intensively I try. It's become apparent some are unable (or unwilling) to step back and see the big picture. Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this combination of perfect storms causes us to lose turkey hunters. When folks get tired of overcrowded public lands, rising lease prices (due to turkey hunters having to have access to private to hunt their state's entire season), opportunity reductions and more restrictions.....Some will in fact gave it up! And I hate to say this, but I'm already looking forward to that day. I'd rather have less turkeys and a lot less turkey hunters than the crap show public lands/traveling turkey hunting has turned into since the YouTube/social media "hunting influencer" era came about. I'll address this comment in 2 parts. Part 1: The possibility of some to become disgruntled due to decreased opportunity and restrictions. I agree, its a possibility. It's unfortunate. I will merely add that individuals whom are likely to quit in that fashion were not motivated from the beginning. They were adding little to the pot with exception of their license. Turkeys were not important enough to them. While I do not wish to see their contributions disappear, regardless of how small, I'm confident the amount of hunters willing to buy their license, become a partner with TFT, purchase an NWTF membership, partake in an agency raffle, volunteer time at their nearest WMA and listen intently to new research findings to help mold seasons and opportunities with their voice far outnumber those willing to give up the trade so quickly. I personally would be willing to move Mount Everest with a teaspoon for the opportunity to sit down on one gobbling in March. I think this ideology can further be doubted when you see the success of organization like RMEF. Their membership is larger than NWTF (if memory serves me correctly) and has a game animal at their core that takes incredible effort in order to get an opportunity (Jesus, please don't let our opportunities to hunt wild turkeys mirror that of elk. Amen.) Part 2: Your opinion has it that YouTube has turned public land hunting and specifically traveling turkey hunting into a crap show. We have finally come to the root of your entire hatred of the matter. No one should be allowed to travel turkey hunt but Nathan because he was doing it before YouTube. It's become more difficult for Nathan to travel out of state and find turkeys to hunt because it's popular. Be d@m^'d any positivity that comes from it, let's incite war against YouTube because I must work harder. That's my view. As much as you and your small crowd taunt "Dave's only out for himself, he's got a 'he's gonna get his attitude- he!! with everyone else'" I find it amusing at your unwillingness to look in the mirror and accept the truths. I can only hope you guys are devoting as much time looking for answers to our turkey issues as you are attempting to tie the blame to YouTubers. Has the popularity of turkey hunting made public land hunting more difficult in some areas, absolutely, I'm affected as much as anyone. But, I refuse to let small negativities cast shade on an overall positive movement. Turkeys need the eyes and recognition. And lastly, I find it disgusting as a MS state wildlife biologist you would make comments like "I'm looking forward to the day turkey hunters quit. I'd rather have less turkeys and less hunters. . ." when you of all people should be acutely aware of how important hunters are to conservation. The mission of the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks is to conserve and enhance Mississippi’s wildlife, fisheries, and parks, provide quality outdoor recreation, and engage the public in natural resource conservation. That sentence copied straight from your agencies "about us." Let me ask you how you plan to "conserve and enhance" when you are advocating for less funding for the agency? How are you "engaging the public in resource conservation" if you frown on every new face that may visit your areas with the potential to become a volunteer? I am not without fault. I carry my share of flaws. I can't undo what's been done. I examine myself routinely to ensure I'm serving as the best example possible given my platform. I strongly suggest you do the same. For those that have made it to this point the reply, I apologize if this came across as jaded and brash. If this forum is your only outlet for media content it would be good to know Nathan and this small (but loud) band of sidekicks consistently attacks myself along with any other YouTube contributors (although they have their favorites) with malicious intent. This becomes increasing obvious when despite our most genuine efforts to address their concerns and follow through with our promises, the attacks keep coming. Since the day Nathan traveled to Wisconsin and "was forced" to turn around because the pressure was too great for him, we have been the sole focus of his attacks. The blame had to go somewhere and of course, the admittance that he was bested by the turkeys and perhaps didn't show up as prepared as necessary were not options. Perhaps there wasn't any backup pins dropped for additional options when plan A or B were occupied, I'm foggy on the details. What's essential to know is there are no lengths he will not reach to impair the progress the popularity of hunting is making simply due to the fact he dislikes those involved. You can see this in his backhanded attempts at compliments above. I hope the nuggets of "I'll be glad when hunters quit" and "you've caused a crap show of traveling to turkey hunt" in his comments show his true motives in being contentious. When we realize there is good that will emerge from this bad the entire machine will be more productive. Is there a necessity to tailor the way things are presented through content creation, possibly. I'm always open for considerations. When the curtains are drawn on this thing, if there are fewer turkeys than when I arrived it's entire existence will be a failure in my eyes. I'm not prepared to watch that happen. With all that being said, I again offer you, Nathan, an opportunity to let bygones be bygones. Help me help wild turkeys through whatever productive avenues we can open up. Reach out to your colleagues I have already spoken to within the agency and lets expand on the ideas many of us are already spearheading. Let's figure out how to ear-mark funding. Let's research ways to concentrate volunteer efforts and work around legalities so they can do more. Lets do good while there is time.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: k bush]
#3461603
08/12/21 03:34 PM
08/12/21 03:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. This is happening. There was a #savethepoults movement last year. Lots of new involvement/ interest in trapping. New content will no doubt be created to fuel that progress with this upcoming season. Supposedly Duke couldn't make traps quick enough last year- let's hope they're preparing for this one.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: JUGHEAD]
#3461610
08/12/21 03:41 PM
08/12/21 03:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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I’m not gonna write a book though I could. I fell in love with Dave’s videos way before the Pinhoti Project because he chased turkeys “right” and inspired me to work to be a better caller. I haven’t been doing it as long as many on here, but I am a self-proclaimed “Lord’s annointed” as Mr. Kelly would say. I have a very deep admiration for God’s creation of the wild turkey, I killed em every way possible when I started, and it didnt take me too long to dive headlong into adding ethics-only based rules to myself on how I was gonna pursue them. I bet my mentor would testify that when he and I had a short-lived dabbling in fanning up turkeys for the first time and killed a few that I called us out on what a shortcut/lessening/instant gratification/cheating way of killing such a majestic creature that it was. I only use that as a single example to say that I humbly believe that I “get it”as a whole.
With all that said, I honestly believe that you have tossed the pearls of what we do to the swine Dave and they have trampled and crapped all over them. I do believe you had the best of intentions when you started Pinhoti, with a worthy goal of overshadowing the aforementioned methods and cheapening of turkey hunting. Unfortunately, in the sorta necessary evil of promoting yourself (social media etc.) in order to be able to do it, the pigs care not about how you killed him. But this self-worshipping culture that we live in LOVES to get behind his dead arse, smoke a cigar or put one out right by his beautifully colored head, hold them spurs up to the sky background (even if they shot him out of the damn truck or from behind a fan), and rush to post it on social media. WAY more about the attention they seek than what it is really about. IE they have attached to the worst part of what you do instead of the good. And you are doing WAY more damage than good IMHO. Then give me advice on where to begin at changing their minds? I hope we can agree that exposure to "the right way" is necessary. Otherwise, where are these guys ever going to find guidance? is the extinguishing of the cigar distasteful? It'll stop. The content surrounding turkeys is coming, do we just let the savages take over and litter the web with fuel for anti-hunting along with smearing our beloved resource disrespectfully in the public's face? I'm genuinely asking for answers.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: ridgestalker]
#3461615
08/12/21 03:45 PM
08/12/21 03:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. Maybe the state should allow us to trap on WMA during turkey season. It’s open state wide on coons and coyotes and would be taking them out at the perfect time. Right now you have to stop Feb 28 which makes no sense and very few people do it. I'm on board with that (I thought it was extended until March 6 in Alabama) along with getting some organizations to put together some sort of initiative to motivate more trapping.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: TurkeyJoe]
#3461618
08/12/21 03:54 PM
08/12/21 03:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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My main frustration is with the lazy management practices recently put in place throughout most of the turkeys range. The easiest target for regulation is legal gobbler harvest. This is being done, in my opinion, so the agencies can be seen as “doing something “. More poults are produced by trapping predators, and those extra turkeys are fed and kept healthy by planting chufas. These things cost money. Private land owners and leasers pay for it, because they love turkeys and turkey hunting. Imposing stricter regulations on legal gobbler harvest lowers incentive for the folks to spent their time and money. Less coons dead and less chufas planted. Easy solutions present themselves, such as using some of the corn lottery money on a bounty for coon and possum tails. Every turkey manager knows this will have a real-time, positive impact on poult recruitment, but the geniuses in charge of the resource will laugh you out of the room for mentioning it. Dave, I would personally like to see you use your platform to promote sound management practices, such as burning, trapping, and planting. Maybe it will help, but I think the DNR leadership (at least in Bama) are just like the rest of the politicians. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. Keep doing whatever you want to do, this is America. But don’t be surprised when the ol boys get ill watching you give away for free what they had to spend a lifetime earning. This platform has been readily used for habitat improvement and predator trapping promotion. I'm also in direct contact with the agency's wildlife professionals working to provide positive change that will greatly benefit turkeys. Involvement with conservation organizations such as Turkeys for Tomorrow has also occupied much of my time. I hope of the amount of people willing to hop on an internet forum and complain put forth half of that effort in donations and volunteer work assisting in making more turkeys. I have a feeling when that happens (along with a couple favorable weather patterns through nesting season) these turkey issues we face will disappear. Not speaking to you directly. Appreciate your comment and agree, large overhaul in management practices is necessary.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Squeaky]
#3461668
08/12/21 04:40 PM
08/12/21 04:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39 Georgia
Cove
Turkey Slayin Mosheen
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Turkey Slayin Mosheen
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 39
Georgia
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Dave I appreciate you taking the time to come on here to share your prospective with this group. I do not know what the right answers are as I can see both sides of the coin. I personally think the increased pressure/numbers of hunters are a bad thing for the public land hunter and dwindling turkey population for many of the reasons already pointed out. I honestly feel sorry for the guys that only have public land to hunt. If that were my only choice these days, I'd go back to bass fishing. I'm certain the dwindling turkey population is a very bad thing for everyone involved. Increased pressure has really hit at an inopportune time as well. But I still believe we can take this increased enthusiasm and create some change that will last much longer than the issues we have on hand and perhaps avoid it from ever happening again.
I could get on board with increasing hunter numbers if these state agencies were truly using the surplus money generated for land purchase and research to find the answer to the problem, poult production!! I have seen several very educated people fail to bring that to the forefront when the opportunity was available to do so! With that said, I feel like the state of Alabama currently has the most incompetent leader in our game and fish departments history of existence. Under his leadership the state of Alabama is screwed in my personal opinion. From my understanding, everyone in academia is pointing to poult production as concern #1. Lots of differing ways to approach the solution though, most all hold their on merits. Leadership could be of concern but we don't know unless we start asking questions. And the best way to cause movement from leadership, a unified voice. I believe we are building an impressive voice and will soon begin using it when necessary.
The game and fish agencies across much of the country have become politized and it's very unfortunate. Money is wasted and robbed, therefore never being utilized for the research and things you mention. Most states can't afford to hire CO's to enforce the current regulations on the books. I simply do not see the money generated from increased hunter recruitment/license sales being utilized for the necessary things that it should be used for. Another case to make sure we are keeping our eyes on the prize so to speak. Let's start demanding answers from our agencies. They will soon begin raking in more money through over flowing Pittman Robertson funds combined with high license sales volumes. That money needs to be put to work for productivity. Let's make sure to applaud a job well done as well. Some of these agencies are working overtime to ensure our resources are managed properly.
I am one of the very people that cast shadow towards the turkey doc "Chamberlain". The man and his work simply do not impress me. He has spouted off a hypotheses (Dominate Gobbler) that is unproven!!! Several state agencies has taken this hogwash as the gospel and ran with it. He is one of the very folks that failed to mention poult recruitment as the number one issue with a declining turkey population. Until these state agencies and biologist bring that glaring issue to the forefront, they will never fix the problem. Arkansas is a prime example, adjusting hunting season and bag limits have failed them miserably. Why do these state agencies continue to throw the same crap against the wall and hope it sticks?? Chamberlain himself says the dominant gobbler theory is not proven. It's a hypothesis which is more or less an educated guess from an individual that has devoted his life to studying turkeys, so it should carry some weight in my opinion. All agencies are responding to a reduction in poult production by limiting seasons, reduced opportunity is the only proven way to reduce harvest. My assumption is this is to pad the carry-over and facilitate a concentrated nest incubation date with reduced disturbance. It's a "we have to do something" answer as a response to an overwhelming number of people who have voiced their concerns with turkey numbers recently. Is it the correct answer? I'm suspect. At the same time I'm not going to fault the agency for making a move as a safety measure. The noise from the public had become substantial. I agree there has to be more research poured into finding answers because if season time was the sole answer states like MO wouldn't be seeing declines as well.
I will no longer support the NWTF because of what they have become. I will not support TFT for the simple fact I asked them how my money would be spent if I contributed to their cause. Never received a reply from those folks. Also their mission statement is vague and along the same lines as the NWTF. I personally want to support a group that their mission is to get answers to poor poult recruitment. I don't think working with state agencies that are politized will accomplish much in the current environment. I can understand your frustrations with NWTF, I have my own as well. I hope they're getting back on track. TFT is a fledging of an organization that has a lot of wheels turning as all it's parts are put into their appropriate places. You should have gotten a return call though, no excuse for that. I do hope you'll reconsider donating to either. There will be some big announcements concerning TFT very soon. I hope you'll follow along.
Out of all this that has taken place there is one positive, I've learned that we aren't producing turkeys, my eyes have been opened to that fact. I need to do more to help the turkeys on the property I control. In my personal opinion a little bit of effort can make a difference. I'm also guilty as charged. I'm holding myself accountable in making sure more turkeys are in our futures.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461697
08/12/21 05:19 PM
08/12/21 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071 NBama
mr.clif
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,071
NBama
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I wish my name wasn't on this post in its early stages but it is, I can't change that. I loved everything about pinhoti because Dave seemed to think exactly how I thought about turkeys. I watched every video and every post that was made and ranked Dave up with the guys I use to watch on VHS tapes 30 years ago. I never knew it would've done what it did to the sport but it did, I honestly can't say that I blame Dave for doing what he's doing but at what cost. YouTube influencers have recruited Turkey hunters to a magnitude not ever seen and the resource cant keep up with the demand. I've known deerhunter1988 for years and know hes dedicated his life to conservation of the resources. From the start all hes asked for is quit naming states but none would listen. He didn't have to show everyone the obvious what it was doing to the public land turkey hunter. I no longer watch or follow hunting on social media. It would be nice if we could come together and fix what's been done.
Last edited by mr.clif; 08/12/21 05:21 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461883
08/12/21 08:17 PM
08/12/21 08:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 329 Saraland, Al
Richard Cranium
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 329
Saraland, Al
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If Dave stops making his videos there’s just going to be some other poor guy doing it for everyone to pile on. Keep up the passion and hard work. Looking forward to next year’s videos already.
The American Indians found out first hand what happens when you don't control immigration!
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3461886
08/12/21 08:20 PM
08/12/21 08:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,187 South Alabama
gobbler
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,187
South Alabama
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First off - well said Dave! Your fingers must be bleeding! As much as I don't like the concept of "youtubers" doing hunting videos, I disliked the hunting videos of the 90's, 80's, 70's, etc just as much. I admit I am a selfish turkey hunter and don't really want more folks involved in the sport. I never watched the VHS videos and don't watch many youtuber vids. The exception has always been Pinhoti for 2 reasons. First, I thought Dave would fit right in with the guys I hunt with, primarily for reason 2. He tries to kill a turkey the "right" way and has (and shows it) a tremendous respect for the bird. He also has the guts to come on here and defend himself to the whiners on here who simply bitch but never have solutions. These guys are the reason I don't post on here often anymore. Too much negativity and armchair biologists - just search my posts from a few years ago. Dave convinced me a while ago that he was in this to influence turkey hunters to appreciate the hunt, respect the animal and not just be in it for the kill and to personally help how he could to increase turkey populations.
Second, Chamberlain. I have been tempted to post on here when he is being slammed but don't want to get into another internet argument with one of the above. That being said, unlike many of those on here that bitch and whine about him, he has dedicated his time, money, and career to wildlife research. He is an exceptional research biologist and is doing excellent research in a time when there is very little turkey research being done in the southeast (Alabama's last turkey project doesn't count!). Do I agree with all of his conclusions - absolutely not. His dominant gobbler theory is full of holes but he thinks it is plausible. I don't. He also admits it is a theory and does not have good data to support it. BUT that doesn't make him a bad researcher or call into question his motives. He hunts and manages turkeys, not just studies them. I suspect the DG theory will be proven wrong but maybe not. Do I agree with starting seasons later - again, no. But I am open to the possibility until proven one way or the other. I simply don't think it will impact poult recruitment either way. His research on movements, habitat, burning, nest success, how they all interact and relate, etc are groundbreaking and that is enough to make him a great researcher. There are some great research projects in the works to look at answering some of these questions.
More of this research needs to be done, especially here in Alabama. We also have a great researcher at AU that should be doing some independent turkey research as well as some in coordination with Chamberlain. As Dave said, stay tuned for announcement soon from AU, TFT and AWF
Last edited by gobbler; 08/12/21 08:27 PM.
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Cove]
#3461961
08/12/21 09:13 PM
08/12/21 09:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743 Lower AL
k bush
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,743
Lower AL
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. This is happening. There was a #savethepoults movement last year. Lots of new involvement/ interest in trapping. New content will no doubt be created to fuel that progress with this upcoming season. Supposedly Duke couldn't make traps quick enough last year- let's hope they're preparing for this one. That’s good to hear
"Cull" is just another four letter word...
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: crenshawco]
#3462046
08/12/21 10:33 PM
08/12/21 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 500 Birmingham, Alabama
Tailwalk7
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 500
Birmingham, Alabama
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Jesus Christ, the turkey forum has become the football forum. Pathetic. Yall sound like a bunch of women That ol vaccine must of been filled with a double dose of estrogen.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3462060
08/12/21 11:28 PM
08/12/21 11:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657 Pelham
Ben2
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657
Pelham
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Yall aint called out and threaten to whip Will Primos, Bill Jordan, Jackie Bushman or Michael Waddell. These 4 have been posting hunting videos for decades and the turkeys are still alive. I dont think (Cove can correct me if I am wrong) Pinhotti has reached near the people those guys have reached.
Last edited by Ben2; 08/12/21 11:52 PM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Ben2]
#3462079
08/13/21 04:38 AM
08/13/21 04:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663 Alabama
OlTimer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663
Alabama
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Yall aint called out and threaten to whip Will Primos, Bill Jordan, Jackie Bushman or Michael Waddell. These 4 have been posting hunting videos for decades and the turkeys are still alive. I dont think (Cove can correct me if I am wrong) Pinhotti has reached near the people those guys have reached. They ALL hunt private/leased property. Apples and oranges there fellow. This thread is about public property being hammered.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Cove]
#3462087
08/13/21 05:36 AM
08/13/21 05:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800 North Jackson
ridgestalker
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,800
North Jackson
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Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.
I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity. Maybe the state should allow us to trap on WMA during turkey season. It’s open state wide on coons and coyotes and would be taking them out at the perfect time. Right now you have to stop Feb 28 which makes no sense and very few people do it. I'm on board with that (I thought it was extended until March 6 in Alabama) along with getting some organizations to put together some sort of initiative to motivate more trapping. No it’s Feb 28 on Skyline and you have to get special permit from area manager. She told me that there isn’t any interest in trapping and rarely gets a request for a permit. The place is too big and rough to go out in the off season and run a few DP traps. If you could put a dozen out during turkey season and check them on the way in or out “turkey season “ I believe a sizable dent could be made in coon population. There’s not much on a WMA as hunter that you can do as a hunter to help. I’ll go to my grave believing the legalization of decoys “2005” was the beginning of the decline. I personally think there’s less pressure on Skyline than there was 20-30 years ago due to the lack of turkeys. I also believe TSS has been bad for the sport because a lot of these newcomers will take a 60-80 yd poke at a hung up bird in a heartbeat. They most often don’t get the gobbler but common sense tells you that birds catching some shot. I use it because it allows me to hunt with 410 but still stick to reasonable ranges.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: OlTimer]
#3462094
08/13/21 06:07 AM
08/13/21 06:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657 Pelham
Ben2
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,657
Pelham
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Yall aint called out and threaten to whip Will Primos, Bill Jordan, Jackie Bushman or Michael Waddell. These 4 have been posting hunting videos for decades and the turkeys are still alive. I dont think (Cove can correct me if I am wrong) Pinhotti has reached near the people those guys have reached. They ALL hunt private/leased property. Apples and oranges there fellow. This thread is about public property being hammered. But they brought new droves of hunters in, which killed droves of gobblers. Public land turkeys go on private land too. So you think the public land hunters are the reason for the population decline across the country?
Last edited by Ben2; 08/13/21 06:09 AM.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Ben2]
#3462102
08/13/21 06:25 AM
08/13/21 06:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663 Alabama
OlTimer
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,663
Alabama
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But they brought new droves of hunters in, which killed droves of gobblers. Public land turkeys go on private land too. So you think the public land hunters are the reason for the population decline across the country? [/quote] Nope, public land hunters effect public land opportunities. The decline across the country has many factors. I may be wrong but, I thought this thread is about public hunting lands exploitation by a few for money, not the overall decline of the wild turkey. I'm just trying to stay on topic and not wander off on habitat management, predator control, etc.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Cove]
#3462112
08/13/21 06:38 AM
08/13/21 06:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56 new orleans, la
sasquatch1
spike
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spike
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 56
new orleans, la
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While we may not agree I can see where you're coming from. The main problem I think a lot of us are concerned with is (Will these loss of opportunities return?) I know I have my doubts, major doubts. One reason I doubt is because with the increase of hunters the flock will need to be bigger just to maintain where its at now. Therefore if we do get the the ball rolling the right way, we very well may just end up at the position of balance, (a flock that could withstand the new pressure but cant expand enough to take on additional pressure of relaxing the regs) this would make agencies keep the new regs in place. For instance, I've long hunted Mississippi as a NR, its the closest place for me to have decent turkey hunting. I've always happily paid for the license etc and even champion for paying more. Hunters don't pay enough and bark at little increases while spending fortunes on other flashy S****. No matter how many turkeys the state grows from this point on I am very reluctant to think they would ever remove the draw requirements being implicated, Due to resident voices and there still being more pressure then there was before. There should be Public land permits not just WMA permits, and for the acreage we can hunt it should be a min $100. This money could go a LONG way to helping the resource. Trapping would help if we could do it during turkey season, but many are like me and don't have the time to travel hours to trap, Ik that sounds ironic but its just the truth. The closets half decent turkey hunting to me is 3 hours away. I have to pull a lot of stuff to get off work to hunt some for those two months, I and many cant do it all year. However we could fund these agencies wayyyy better. Sell the permits and earmark the money for certain things. Hell the wardens and biologist are under paid, we could earmark money for trapping. Maybe they would do a lot of trapping themselves too if they could get $5 per rodent turned in, and they in the field already daily??? Bonus money for those who want or need to make more? More hunters aren't always bad but I feel social media brought a diff type, maybe I'm wrong idk. I think the best way to get more hunters that align with the old school mentality is by friends taking out more friends. The old school way for the old school style. However I've been burned like that many times too by being run out of my own spots by so called friends. Hell I enjoy the videos myself, guilty as charged, but I think the location naming could go differently and help. Just like the old videos didn't flood the public land like now. That's due to peoples doubt, (I cant do like those guys, they have fancy private land) therefore I'm not going . The ones who don't have such doubt and go out trying on their own are a different breed that I believe more so align with the old way. The brand new only social media flames are the new culture by large. Dave, to your first paragraph. I agree the (old school way was disappearing) and needed to change.
However the old way wasn’t disappearing because people didn’t know how to hunt that way, like you said it’s a full on culture change. We are in the instant gratification generation. These new guys aren’t watching your videos on how to hunt, they are looking for where to hunt! While this may be the case in some scenerios, I can say with certainty it is not true in all scenerios. I have private messages explaining how much more gratifying the experience has been since they've played by the old principles. Not to mention slowing the entire celebration down to prolong the experience. And during the 4 years of the Pinhoti project, I have hunted 30 states if my quick addition was correct, so the problem lies in sending people to 30 different states across the country? I totally agree the instant gratification generation is much to blame but I'm not finding any solutions in your comment on how to curb that culture? My approach was to expose them to "the experience" rather than just the kill. But I'm open to other suggestions. We can't ignore the newest generations if we expect to keep this hunting thing around.
So, while trying to show people the right way, I feel mostly the videos just showed people it was possible. It brought out thousands of people to the sport that don’t want to hunt the old school way! All the new people attracted are mostly hunters that go against what you was trying to accomplish! Again, so the answer is? Ignore all the new hunters, shun them and worry about ourselves? Trust me, I'd love to be the lone man on the ridge day in and day out hunting "my" turkeys. But I know that is not good for the resource because I alone can not fund and care for them. Eventually, I may still be the lone man on the ridge but "my" turkeys will be long gone without hope in restoring them. For now, my only answer is to expose the new hunters to the experience, hope it sticks and potentially try to sway some of the other existing media they're attracted to to do the same. Please realize I'm not the only content for new hunters to watch. The battle against questionable methodology is constant.
Your videos showed the same people of the (new culture) confidence in trying public land. I totally agree. My videos have shown people new to hunting and old to hunting the possibilities of travel. I along with the incredible advancement in mapping software that I continuously see ignored. It's like no one wants to mention it because EVERYONE uses it, myself included. Once upon a time I would pour weeks or more into printing google maps and tracing property boundaries. Transferring gps coordinates to a Garmin with a 3" dimly lit screen then marking those same points to a wax papered national forest map took of most of my nights. The amount of effort necessary to travel to foreign soil was staggering. Now, you can literally drive down the road, watch your blue pointer and wait for the shaded region to appear. Which I find much more tasteful when compared to that "shared waypoint" chasing epidemic. And this isn't an accusation because I've been just as guilty as anyone. Just an observation that shouldn't go ignored.
There’s many like me who are definitely guilty in the sense of watching your hunts, however the ones like me were already hunting and being involved. You just gained views from my or should I say our kind as we were already on the same hunt style opinions. The NEW people youve drawn in are on the new culture side. We need the strength that comes with the numbers. I believe for us as "old hunters" should instead of hating the new hunters because frankly they're coming whether you like it or not (again, its a good thing) we should attempt to mold them into responsible sportsman. Casting them aside isn't the way. They will build resentment for our values and essentially deny them for no reason other than that, they're ours. Expose them to passing a gate that's already occupied, expose them to backing out on a gobbling turkey because someone else is already working him and expose them to the importance of turkey hunters engaging with wildlife professionals and agencies to ensure we are putting as many turkeys on the landscape as we are taking off. Who else is going to do it?
This is why the restrictions are coming in the form of opportunity not weapon restrictions, Jake restrictions or decoy restrictions. (Just a few examples) Restrictions were coming, as I stated this turkey production trend started over a decade ago. We had turkey problems before YouTube, Bookface and the Gram. We were not/ are not making enough turkeys. I'm thankful now we have the popularity for the sport to fund new research, ask tough questions to agencies and motivate NGOs to address issues that have been long building without notice. We have a supply issue. When the supply issue is resolved the demand aspect will take care of itself. I suggest we start looking at solutions to the supply issue rather than passing blame as to who is responsible for the demand surge. Both are necessary for what we love. I appreciate your comment. I have attempted to address each point with my perspective. I challenge my way of thinking daily- am I doing the right thing? what could I change to do better? should I reconsider this? should I abandon that? My approach is always up for tailoring. Again, that's why I engage in forums such as this one when many would not due to their overall toxicity.
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: gobbler]
#3462115
08/13/21 06:50 AM
08/13/21 06:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002 Covington County
Squeaky
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,002
Covington County
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First off - well said Dave! Your fingers must be bleeding! As much as I don't like the concept of "youtubers" doing hunting videos, I disliked the hunting videos of the 90's, 80's, 70's, etc just as much. I admit I am a selfish turkey hunter and don't really want more folks involved in the sport. I never watched the VHS videos and don't watch many youtuber vids. The exception has always been Pinhoti for 2 reasons. First, I thought Dave would fit right in with the guys I hunt with, primarily for reason 2. He tries to kill a turkey the "right" way and has (and shows it) a tremendous respect for the bird. He also has the guts to come on here and defend himself to the whiners on here who simply bitch but never have solutions. These guys are the reason I don't post on here often anymore. Too much negativity and armchair biologists - just search my posts from a few years ago. Dave convinced me a while ago that he was in this to influence turkey hunters to appreciate the hunt, respect the animal and not just be in it for the kill and to personally help how he could to increase turkey populations.
Second, Chamberlain. I have been tempted to post on here when he is being slammed but don't want to get into another internet argument with one of the above. That being said, unlike many of those on here that bitch and whine about him, he has dedicated his time, money, and career to wildlife research. He is an exceptional research biologist and is doing excellent research in a time when there is very little turkey research being done in the southeast (Alabama's last turkey project doesn't count!). Do I agree with all of his conclusions - absolutely not. His dominant gobbler theory is full of holes but he thinks it is plausible. I don't. He also admits it is a theory and does not have good data to support it. BUT that doesn't make him a bad researcher or call into question his motives. He hunts and manages turkeys, not just studies them. I suspect the DG theory will be proven wrong but maybe not. Do I agree with starting seasons later - again, no. But I am open to the possibility until proven one way or the other. I simply don't think it will impact poult recruitment either way. His research on movements, habitat, burning, nest success, how they all interact and relate, etc are groundbreaking and that is enough to make him a great researcher. There are some great research projects in the works to look at answering some of these questions.
More of this research needs to be done, especially here in Alabama. We also have a great researcher at AU that should be doing some independent turkey research as well as some in coordination with Chamberlain. As Dave said, stay tuned for announcement soon from AU, TFT and AWF
Gobbler I value your opinion as I have always felt you have been a straight shooter on here with us. I appreciate you posting the above information as I was not aware of this information. Guys like yourself and Dave are in the know and I appreciate y'all sharing what information you can. I am guilty of jumping on the whining and complaining ban wagon. I am going to refrain from posting any more on threads such as these and hope what you and Dave are saying about the future gives us some answers in the near future.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes to us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
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Re: Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)
[Re: Southwood7]
#3462130
08/13/21 07:18 AM
08/13/21 07:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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I’m so thankful CNC doesn’t visit the turkey forum 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!! My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty I'm the paterfamilias
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