Now that sh1ts funny!!!!!!!!!
lol

I’m so thankful CNC doesn’t visit the turkey forum 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿


Now that sh1ts funny!!!!!!!!!
lol

You said his name 3 times...

Very valid observation and one I don't think many can dispute. Less hunting pressure (less disturbance) and less harvest coupled with quality habitat will provide more fruitful experiences. I think it's the key observation many have that empowers the desire to reduce season length and bag limits. It gets more complicated when we realize that we must balance the amount of opportunities along with the health of the resource in that, if we aren't allow to turkey hunt but once every 3 years- how many people are going to even continue turkey hunting (very extreme example obviously)? Then if the resource falls in it's significance as a "money-maker" for our agencies, will their challenges be address adequately? I would really like to see opportunity cut as a last resort but no one should be able to disagree with its effectiveness. The real questions that have to be answered (research pending) is whether other options exist to make more turkeys and provide more fruitful opportunities while making minimal changes to opportunity. In other words, I still think we can "have our cake and eat it too."

If you're a DNR employee you should be familiar with the way conservation is funded. Hunters equal money. Money is needed to do everything. The habitat improvements that are necessary on a VERY large scale across the country as well as research that must be initiated to help us figure out why our production has been on an downhill slide for over a decade are a couple of those things. Has the increase in the popularity moved more hunters onto public land. I have never denied that fact. And again, I would like to request when I have ever "loose-lipped" a wma or national forest? Has it been done? I'm sure of it. You can find it by hoping over to your NWTF media platform now and sit down with a nice hunt where the national forest name is littered throughout. Their situation is entirely different than YouTubers admittedly but the exposure is out there none the less. I have and will continue to wholly agree hotspotting of specific locations is a big black eye. It shouldn't be done. But I hope we can agree that turkey hunters needed to be motivated in order to recognize and combat the issues the turkey populations are facing. They needed to be made aware of the severity if gone unattended to and the avenues they can use to assist. New NWTF chapters are popping up, new organizations are forming in TFT, fundraisers and raffles by agencies have become a thing- all of this made possible due to an increase in the amount of exposure given to turkeys and the amount of people that have willing to help.

Black = Cove's response to my initial post
Red = My response





Hi Nathan,
So glad you could make it. I assume you've already rallied your band of . . . let's call them "contributors" for lack of a better term (I'm sure they're already here, I'm working through this thread one reply at a time). I've anticipated your input considering your involvement in every single facebook group, hunting forum, and any other platform that would allow you to deliver your "infinite wisdom" regardless of it's merit. All of this coming through those wretched social media outlets you claim to despise while sharing your travels and turkey killing sprees from across the country none the less. So lets address your comments below
Firstly, I posted on here to see how you would respond on an open forum VS. our face to face meeting. And as I suspected, response did vary on a few subjects. So, LOTS of veteran public land/traveling turkey hunters share similar sentiments as me in regards to YouTube/social media's effects on public land turkey hunting. Plenty of whom I don't know. They can be found on every serious turkey forum and inside all of our turkey hunting 'circles'. That ought to be your first sign right there that something may have gone astray in your pursuits. Yup, I've been speaking up on forums and social media so other hunters can follow along with what is happening. I'm not looking out for Nathan, I'm looking out for every public land turkey hunter out there who is losing opportunity or experiencing worse than ever crowds that can be attributed to YouTube/social media. I do find it humorous that you still claim "I'm at fault too" (verbatim from our meeting) for sharing photos on Facebook that only my friends can see and some photos on a half-satire Instagram account with <300 followers. Come on man, you can't claim to remotely believe that is the same thing. However I am at fault for possibly divulging too much in forum posts way back back in the day. A decade ago, I did post all of my turkeys on my home forum. Up until a couple years ago, I posted some turkeys on my home forum. Plenty of us did but the audience was an extremely small fraction of what it is now and the repercussions were NOTHING like we are currently experiencing. It honestly dumbfounds me that such a smart and savvy guy as yourself uses that comparison as a defense.


How I display my hunts are always under evaluation. I'm always up for suggestions for change. You've screamed this state naming jargon time and time again. I've considered it. I can't even tell you if it's completely off the table. But what I do know is that it will not cause you or your mob to cease in undermining any accomplishment anyone from YouTube achieves. You'll simply pick another insignificant facet to attack us over and continue right on down the same ole road. You're supposedly a "numbers guy" so check out the numbers on these 2 photos pulled straight from my analytics


YouTube Search

Search Keywords

So just so you understand those numbers. That means less than 11% of my viewers get there due to a search which you insist is causing massive crowds. Then of that percentage- if anyone is searching for Mississippi turkey hunting or Alabama turkey hunting the number is so small is doesn't even show up in the analytics (granted this is from the last 28 days, I can't get full channel analytics from such specific parameters). Will I change the way I word my video titles, I can't be certain as of right now, never say never right? I can say I don't see it's significance as long as whomever is posting the video takes the effort to ensure the specific location is protected. The truth is, people across the country are excited about turkey hunting, period. So they're making their way to states like MS, AL, GA and FL because that's where they're allowed to hunt. I'll gladly take credit for some of the new enthusiasm behind turkey hunting if you wish- I will not apologize for it- but accessibility is why these states see the non-residents early. They want to hunt and that's where it happens. If we had a supply surplus to match the demand there would be no issue. And to extend that train of thought, I've hunted every state with a March opener since Pinhoti became a thing, why would my presence being in any specific state matter? I've had exceptional hunts in each state. They're all great hunting. But circling back, turkey hunting has been/ continues to be life changing for me. If I expose a single individual out there amongst the "evil interwebs" to a passion they would have otherwise died without I'm satisfied. And I suppose that means I'm willing to continue to debate senseless points with the likes of you as well. So we will carry on. . .


I think you'd be surprised how many people would be extremely appreciative of you for not naming states. If its so "insignificant" and "senseless" why not give it a trial run for a few years? How come so many other veteran public land/travel turkey hunters share the same opinion as I? I guess we all just lack sense?

Cannot see the photos you tried to post and would appreciate it if you could re-post. I'd be much more interested in seeing data during the time period when people actually have turkey hunting on their minds. Really wish you had access to those metrics. It isn't strictly the search I insist that is causing massive crowds? There are various ways to get to your videos and people are more apt to click if its a state of their interest. Do I think it will hurt your views? Yeah, I think you will lose a small number of views. But you've done a great job at building a significant fan following who will watch your videos regardless. So why not give it a trial run?

I found it interesting that you didn't use the "I'm a traveling turkey hunter whose built my brand on hunting multiple states so i'm going to continue to name states" line that you used when we met in person.

Majorly huh. . . I'm assuming you have more concrete numbers from an anonymous source to confirm the value of majorly? You don't. First off because majorly doesn't have a value and because they don't exist. There have been so many advancements and changes to the scene of hunting within the last handful of years working simultaneously it would be impossible to designate percentages. Does YouTube factor into a part of the percentage? Absolutely. I've said that, repeatedly.

Nope, no concrete numbers, sorry. The mentioning of an "Anonymous source" leads me to believe you are questioning other data i've gathered. Any data regarding license sales/application numbers i've presented have came straight from state game agencies and I'd be more than happy to provide. This information is normally free to anyone who requests it (Alabama wants to charge $50 for it and you must be a resident to do the request). I am glad to see you are finally admitting that YouTube is in fact causing damage.


Nice opinion. Mine is that YouTube gives people the motivation, OnX (or huntstand or the GIS maps most state agencies offer now) give people the confidence and Covid gives those people the time. Time to create lasting, unforgettable memories much like the ones you and I tell about our turkey hunting adventures while sitting around a campfire, am I right? I reckon we should be the only ones allowed to do this?

I have never once denied that mapping maps and COVID haven't played a factor. But hearing those excuses time and time again gets old. Especially since non-resident sales in several states were already rising before COVID. We all should be allowed to enjoy it. But when Joe Blow who doesn't have the means to travel loses most of his turkey season and has a greatly diminished quality of hunt due the new waves of increased pressure put on the public land resource, things need to be reeled in a bit.

Just an FYI, in case it needs to be said, Chubbs has no issues taking his Alabama gobblers annually despite what you may think. Was it a surprise that he has seen increased pressure? Did you think while everyone else is seeing pressure he wasn't? I laugh at the fact that people pretend hunting pressure didn't exist before 2019. You can see us deal with it on multiple occasions and actually more in AL and GA before we released the first season. It was one of the points we wanted to address in the videos- pressure- and how you were to deal with it -right or wrong- I've accomplished both in my time with the camera. Showing the necessity in avoiding crowded gates when possible and treating fellow hunters with respect. And also illustrating that public land (and hunting in general) isn't all rainbow and unicorns. In one situation we had a guy blow a gobbler out of the tree after telling us he would back out (he came up behind us). I hope that video taught some unknowing turkey hunter to "not be that guy."

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Don't know a thing about Chubbs or the gobblers he kills. I was just referencing what he said on a podcast (and it was a great one!) I laugh at the fact you act like hunting pressure hasn't increased since 2019. We all deal with the pressure. I have a vast network of traveling turkey hunters just like you and 90% of them would vouch for the pressure increases they've witnessed.

I appreciate how you address dealing with pressure in your videos. Definitely a good point people can learn from.

That being said- what Chubbs eluded to was the importance of keeping the areas we video in concealed. Can you point me toward an Alabama video on my channel where our location was exposed? Without local knowledge, its highly doubtful. As I stated before, if I screw up I'm not too proud to accept fault. But I don't think this is one of those times. Concealment has ALWAYS been of utmost importance for us.

I haven't watched any episodes since May of 2020 so I can't speak to the recent ones. But in the early ones, you talk about the mountains. I'm decently well versed in geography and know that northeast Alabama is the only region that has what i'd consider "mountains". And when you lived in Cedartown and hunted Alabama in the mornings before work, it could reasonably be inferred you were hunting within an hour or two's drive of Cedartown. But i admit, the majority of folks don't dig that deep or use that reasoning.

It'd be ludicrous of me to place northeast Bama blame on you just by mentioning "mountains" or using the logic referenced above. And I don't blame you for that region. Its the other careless YouTubers hunting it that really screwed the pooch there.

And you do the best job of concealing out of any of the mainstream YouTubers!


I suppose I'm missing the "gotcha" here and perhaps we are touching on your real issue with YouTubers. You don't like seeing other people on "your" public land combined with it's not your brand they're displaying on their hats or the back windows. People purchase and display a brand they can affiliate with- folks wear a Braves hat because they like Freddie Freeman, they wear the MossyOak emblem because they live the lifestyle. I hope people wear the Pinhoti logo because they want to be affiliated with a brand that represents an absolute passion for everything turkey worn by a guy that has given up d@m+ near everything for the opportunity to chase and help them as much as he can on his trip through life. But lets circle back to the imperative nature of keeping locations disguised since we are on the topic of IRONY. Why have you refused to apologize for a lapse of your own? I have openly apologized for any screw-up I've ever made. Or do you even see a problem with it? are your actions exempt? You were quick to point out my unwillingness to quit naming states when I invited you to dinner last month but failed to mention the other conservation initiatives I was tackling this off season; so I thought it was worth mentioning your refusal to accept fault in this meme. Why is this still available for anyone's viewing pleasure?

Ironic Photo

Well, I have no brand so I guess you are inferring i'm jealous? As a public land manager, I'd honestly have a hard time sleeping at night if I knew I'd helped contribute to reduced public land hunting opportunities and hunt quality. I was simply stating observations of mine countless others.

It honestly took me a minute to realize what "IRONY" and "lapse" you were referring to because the picture isn't showing. A FREAKING MEME! No, I'm not apologizing for the following meme and find it absolutely hilarious you are still trying to use it as "ammo".




Do we really need to revisit the necessity in keeping locations concealed? And also another request for the video where I have ever mentioned applying for a quota hunt or hunting a specific WMA in Florida. One will notice also when arriving in Florida going off "into the Cypress" is the equivalent of saying "off into the hardwoods" or "into the river bottom." Cypress is a habitat type in Florida, it's everywhere- folks have the freedom to assume all they want. Without local, "I've been there before" knowledge- one would be hard pressed to find our locations. Have the amount of hunters Florida bound in March increased? Yes. Am I a contributor to those numbers? Yes. Probably more so than any other place. Have I questioned whether sharing my hunts in Florida had an overall negative effect? Sure I have. Thankfully, the demands of hunting Florida self-regulate. You yourself said hunting Florida's general access was a no-go for you and I would consider you a avid turkey hunter, willing to do what many wont. And as far as "WMAs in particular I hunt" . . . you would be hard pressed to find a public area in Florida I haven't been on the past 17 years. So "particular" will be comical for those in the know. The friends I have made in Florida see the pressure but are amused by the rhetoric. They're a special breed that hunt that place, they understand what it takes to be consistently successful in that environment and don't ever seem to run into issue with finding their turkeys. I wouldn't trade my worst day in that he!!hole for anything

You haven't mentioned applying for a quota hunt or a specific WMA but folks do digging and find that stuff. You mentioned yourself about folks driving down to Florida to a WMA you hunt and asking others "Do ya'll know where Dave hunts?" Hmmmmmm....

How come you completely ignored the hard data I presented to you in person regarding Florida and wouldn't acknowledge causing an influx of hunters to south Florida? Instead you got extremely defensive and told us numerous times "Florida has always been like that, a madhouse!" and "I've been hunting Florida 15 years!" I actually lost count of how many times you mentioned you'd been hunting Florida for 15 years, don't know what justification you were trying to use there. I've been hunting Florida since 2008 myself.

I'm glad you are finally getting past your "can do no wrong attitude" and willing to admit damage has been done. I hate it for the south Florida residents who went from drawing hunts every couple years to now having to wait 3-4+ years for a decent hunt. And the crowds they have to deal with now.....


Come on man, you're cherry picking words as bad as CNN. "Due to our observations of prolonged poor poult recruitment and our desires to delay harvest as a result. . . now you can insert your - because hunting pressure- piece. News flash- hunting pressure has always been higher on public land. That shouldn't come as a surprise right? While the pressure may have increased, the bigger issue is still a supply problem. It just so happens when this pressure increase happened the supply decreased. If we could focus our efforts on making more rather than passing blame around it would most certainly be a better use of our time. So again, reduced opportunity is due to decreased reproduction (long standing, proven issue) and increased pressure (new issue).

Agreed that it is both a supply and demand problem.

There is so much wrong with your logic. How could any turkey hunter not be concerned with poult recruitment and brood rearing habitat? Why is it so automatic that they can't help with both on public lands? I find it alarming that is your message to public land hunters as a state wildlife biologist. Why aren't you looking for solutions rather than excuses? Why aren't you busy looking for ways to motivate public land users to trap more? how can you say trapping "ain't really gonna change much?" One guy running a dozen dog-proof traps, maybe (although I still say a dead coon doesn't find eggs) -I know what the science says- which is an intensive trapping effort is necessary and precisely why we should be looking to get dozens of public land hunters to run a dozen traps each (or more). If there are that many hunters available to hunt turkeys there should be that many hunters willing to save turkeys.

I'm just a realist. The sad reality is that the majority of public land turkey hunters will never put in the time or effort to assist with the public lands they hunt. Heck, you wouldn't believe how many times we hear folks complain about paying for a $15/$30 WMA user permit to hunt "their land". And the complaints about a certain road not being bush hogged or food plant being planted on time after purchasing that WMA permit! When we both know WMA permits are some of the best bargains out there. The vast majority will take but care a lot less about giving back.

There are a few reasons trapping is very unlikely to change much.
1.) The scale of public lands vs private. On public lands we are generally dealing with thousands or even tens of thousands of acres blocks of land. On private its normally much, much smaller parcels being targeted.
2.) Feeding. Trapping efficacy is going to be much higher on private parcels around feeders that congregate the intended target.
3.) Access. Whereas on private parcels you can just drive right up to your to traps, access on public will often have to be by foot. Carrying traps, bait, etc. will be quite the job!
4.)Users. A lot of public land turkey hunters travel 20-30+ minutes to hunt. They are out 40 minutes to an hour of just travel time if running traps. This is going to consolidate most to only trapping on weekends. If something comes up and they can't check their traps the following day, how feasible is it for them to take off work on Monday to check their traps (which they are bound to by law)?

I could go on, but you get the point.

All that being said, I fully believe in the rewards of an intensive trapping program. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who've underwent intensive trapping efforts over a sustained period and not saw some positive results from the efforts. The public land scale is just SO much larger and without bait on the landscape to set traps near, it really is more difficult to catch the nest predators. How do I know this? On the areas I manage, we emphasize trapping!

I applaud your efforts to get more folks involved on public land management. We could use all the help we can get. On small, localized portions of public lands the public trappers very well may see a benefit. But I stand by my statement that across large landscapes as a whole, we will never be able to get enough public involvement to significantly effect turkey populations. It simply requires too much time and effort that not enough people are willing to put worth. But believe me, I hope someone can prove my previous statement wrong!

And since you mentioned new quotas in Georgia- its a perfect example of the importance of having a "voice" as hunters. Strictly my opinion, but putting such a vast amount of acreage into a quota system in conjunction with removing the first almost 3 weeks of the season is excessive. The concern was the amount of harvest per square mile (while poult recruitment sputtered and yes I have spoke to this biologist) yet area management has opened more and more gates on those areas over the past decade (you can literally drive everywhere now). When asked about reducing harvest through gate closure I got a "we may need to consider that as an option" response. Afterall, the more gates that were opened the more the harvest rose. I'm an advocate for rewarding effort. If a guy is willing to walk 4 miles then he deserves it, at least give him the chance to do so. As one in your clan announced, "I don't think you should have to walk 10 or 11 miles to hear a turkey gobble," I respectfully disagree. I think some days we should absolutely need to put forth that amount of effort and I'm also of the class that. . . we may not hear a turkey gobble every day.[/color]

Agreed. Personally not familiar with but one of those WMAs and was not aware of the newly increased access. I'm of the mindset that we need sanctuaries, spots that critters can go to escape the pressure. Increased access, electric bikes, etc. just help to increase harvest. No argument there at all and I'm an advocate for more closed gates.

BUT, that is just another issue public land managers deal with. Hunters seem to be getting lazier (and granted a lot are just getting older) and want easy access. The vast majority do not want to walk a mile or mile to get to a spot. And these same hunters can be vocal about access and sometimes are able to raise enough stink to get their way. On the contrary, It'd be nice to see advocates for more restricted access to make folks work a little harder for that turkey and create those sanctuary situations previously mentioned. In today's world, the open access advocates are in far greater number.



We will resort to a few more "broken record" responses here due to your reluctance to see the big picture and never waning desire to play the blame game. We have a supply issue. If we work for solutions to the decade old dwindling poult recruitment numbers, we will have enough turkeys to open generous amounts of opportunity. I'm confident in that. Without the exposure to the issues wild turkeys have been facing over the past decade (that had gone ignored), the working man may have been able to live out his days with a turkey to hunt but would his kids? If turkeys hadn't risen to the top of the list of "most concerned" would this working mans grandkids talk about wild turkeys like many old timers do about quail? Yes, losing opportunity sucks. I think many agencies are "playing it safe" as their only option because we don't have the information available to tell them otherwise at the moment. That will change. The only concrete information they have to pull from says that reduced opportunity means reduced harvest. I can only make the assumption attempts are being made to pad carryover numbers (and facilitate that simultaneous nest incubation date) to assist in the overall population reduction until we figure out why our reproduction is lack luster. But, research is underway and I pray it comes with other alternatives. While hunting opportunities may be seeing reductions in some areas, there are still opportunities for those willing to put forth the effort, Florida (which you pointed out) is an example.
Agreed, there is a supply issue in the vast majority of areas across the southeast. And I'm thrilled more people are becoming aware and better educated on the situation.


Nice pat on the back while kicking me in the groin. It's impossible for you to give a compliment huh? It must really be a drain to wake up daily surrounded with such negativity. Much effort has been given to avoid and/ or curb those now chasing death tolls. It's sickening. I have found far fewer than you considering your claim it's "just as many" but will not deny they exist. Unfortunately, there will always be a few bad apples who will lie, cheat and steal to feed their desires. It happens across the globe. We (those of us hunting 20+ years) are probably guilty as well to some degree. I believe wanting to kill kill kill is a part of the maturity of a turkey hunter. I shamefully remember a time when blood was a #1 desire (and this happened without YouTube). Turkey hunters go through phases- it's described in works such as the Old Pro Turkey Hunter which dates back to the authors beginnings in the 1920s. I'm unsure if the phase is even avoidable. We need to make certain that it is just a phase and look to expedite its completion. I've watched some appear to get stuck in that phase (especially if they're showcasing it on YouTube or the like). This mindset also rears it's ugly head in people chasing some type of "slam" regardless of which variety; it's a kill at all cost attitude. It's not productive and is spawned from greed, another undesirable trait. Stress to turkey hunters new and old that it's less to do with the "how many" and more to do with the "overall how." I'm attempting to reach as many turkey hunters as possible with that message. You have never and will never hear me speak of kill counts. I'm asked multiple times a season, "how many does that make for you" or "how many cigars is that now" and you will find those questions fall unanswered. It's not important. I'm trying my very best to show and sell the hunt not the conclusion through my content. The quicker we can rush new hunters through that kill phase the better off the resource will be, causing them to skip it would even be better.[/color]

No, it's not impossible for me to give a compliment. I've given you compliments before and am giving them now where they are due.

1.) You do a lot better job at hiding your whereabouts than other YouTubers
2.) You've brought to light numerous issues facing wild turkey populations that could be attributing to their decline
3.) You've helped introduce folks to a style of turkey hunting they otherwise might not have ever been exposed to
4.) I very much appreciate your efforts towards advancing the conservation of wild turkey
5.) You haven't sold out to OnX (lol)

Hopefully in the coming years the pros will overtake the cons.



Gee, thanks for the compliment-ish, you're still finding that difficult it appears. I can agree with your sentiments regarding a "the sky is falling" mentality (I assume that's what you meant). I don't see it. A slight overall reduction, sure, but not a "mass decline" as put by one of your co-host. But I understand that terminology was necessary for the sell of his narrative regardless of it's implications. I digress. I see the arguments surrounding the turkey decline falling into 3 major groups- the old timers who experienced the boom of the late 90s when turkeys occupied marginal habitat because their populations peaked following the trap and transfer efforts. They expect to still hear 10 or more gobblers each morning and not sit down until they find one that cuts every single call, until then they haven't found one "that's ready." I think this is an unreal expectation unless the agencies get back into the business of trapping and transferring birds again. Even then, I'm not sure we would see those types of responses due to the degradation of habitat since the 90s and I wholly believe those measures are not necessary. The opposite end of the spectrum you have (already discussed within this post) the "instant gratification" crowd. This league of hunters expects results with little to no effort. If they devote a day to something they deserve a reward. This crowd thrives in the dawn of the methodology crutches. But if they are refused success then there is obviously a shortage of turkeys. Again, another wildly misinformed sector. In the middle we have a crowd that does just that, falls in the middle on the issues at hand. I fall there. Do I agree we have an overall decrease in turkey numbers. A dash of that opinion formulated from my own observations but the majority of the opinion falling on accounts received from worthy, trusted sources and the data provided through science (those numbers you love). I strongly agree with your opinion on much of our immediate issues being weather related. It's a contributor to this issue we simply can not fix. There will be good years and there will be bad years. This is why I question the states acceptance of rigid season guidelines for so long. My opinion, we need annual evaluations and differing seasonal frameworks to choose from- perhaps a conservative and liberal framework (jesus, please don't make this political) that will respond to the quality of reproduction and harvest. Essentially, if we made a lot of turkeys open up the opportunity; if we struggled in production restrict the opportunity for the sake of the resource. This type of evaluation already occurs in waterfowl and should be adapted for turkeys. Many issues this type of idea will encounter, starting with our ability to count turkeys, especially poults. But I do not think that is reason enough to pull it from consideration. Frankly, I've grown tired of excuses such as "that requires legislature, it'll be very difficult." Difficult questions often require difficult answers and we have difficult questions. Turkeys need a team of players that are willing to fight through difficultly to implement changes that will prove beneficial. If this means diving into the politics of the environment to battle agricultural practices or the like, sign me up. I'm for the resource and will gladly watch anything I've built go up in flames fighting for it. And as I move on from this topic, I'll mention your negative position for all things "new hunter" evident again in this passage. The "more hunters are reducing my opportunity" argument will find us selfishly standing on the ridgeline, alone much to our pleasure, without a turkey to hunt- much to our displeasure. You are still pointing fingers rather that looking for an answer to our reproductive struggles.

Once again, agreed. We both fall in the middle crowd.

I'd very much be open to managing turkey in the way suggested. A few years of bad reproduction, lets make some adjustments. When populations rebound, lets open it up a bit more again. Unfortunately recent history shows that once hunting opportunity is taken away, it rarely is given back. That is my biggest fear with these current changes.

We can agree on this subject. I too believe there are other options that should be put on the table. Difficulty in action circles back around to getting into agency politics like before mentioned. Let's use the research to get hard numbers to face these opponents, gather a willing number of volunteers to go to war using those numbers and do something productive here while we have an environment filled with concerned turkey hunters. And just an FYI, it's already underway. Many folks (instead of whining on hunting forums) are working tirelessly at searching for answers and proposing changes that will no doubt be beneficial for wild turkeys. Anyone else cut a $35k check to single handedly initiate research? THP has. Also, look for big announcements from TFT in the next week or so (as soon as the paperwork is finalized).
I and many others will agree that the $35,000 check can't make up for what their actions have caused.


I think you can refer to the above on my explanations for the flaw in this logic and it's insignificance. When this doesn't work as well as you imagine (and it won't), you'll then be demanding we not hunt in March or not release turkey content until July. The harsh reality is you will never cease in attempting to derail turkey content because it adds difficultly to your endeavors. You are incapable to accepting failure on your part and instead vigorously search for another place to pass the blame. Because of course, it must be someone else's fault. You'll continue to seethe while smashing the thumbs down on every one of my videos. I understand that, I've accepted that. I realize I can not win over everyone regardless of how intensively I try. It's become apparent some are unable (or unwilling) to step back and see the big picture.

I'd never demand anyone not to hunt in March? Would I support a ban on commercial filming on state owned lands? Yes, I would. I have a major issue with profiting off our public lands at a potential risk to the resource.

You seem to think this is all about ME. It isn't Dave. Perhaps you are so enamored with yourself its difficult to care about the other local public land turkey hunters? I really don't know, but I do know I care about all the public land turkey hunters out there losing opportunity or experiencing reduced hunting quality due to the effects of YouTube and social media. That is part of the big picture to me.



I'll address this comment in 2 parts. Part 1: The possibility of some to become disgruntled due to decreased opportunity and restrictions. I agree, its a possibility. It's unfortunate. I will merely add that individuals whom are likely to quit in that fashion were not motivated from the beginning. They were adding little to the pot with exception of their license. Turkeys were not important enough to them. While I do not wish to see their contributions disappear, regardless of how small, I'm confident the amount of hunters willing to buy their license, become a partner with TFT, purchase an NWTF membership, partake in an agency raffle, volunteer time at their nearest WMA and listen intently to new research findings to help mold seasons and opportunities with their voice far outnumber those willing to give up the trade so quickly. I personally would be willing to move Mount Everest with a teaspoon for the opportunity to sit down on one gobbling in March. I think this ideology can further be doubted when you see the success of organization like RMEF. Their membership is larger than NWTF (if memory serves me correctly) and has a game animal at their core that takes incredible effort in order to get an opportunity (Jesus, please don't let our opportunities to hunt wild turkeys mirror that of elk. Amen.)
Yup, RMEF is a great organization and one of the best in my book. I've been a member for years. I hope TFT and NWTF can some day make it to the same level of success.

Part 2: Your opinion has it that YouTube has turned public land hunting and specifically traveling turkey hunting into a crap show. We have finally come to the root of your entire hatred of the matter. No one should be allowed to travel turkey hunt but Nathan because he was doing it before YouTube. It's become more difficult for Nathan to travel out of state and find turkeys to hunt because it's popular. Be d@m^'d any positivity that comes from it, let's incite war against YouTube because I must work harder. That's my view. As much as you and your small crowd taunt "Dave's only out for himself, he's got a 'he's gonna get his attitude- he!! with everyone else'" I find it amusing at your unwillingness to look in the mirror and accept the truths. I can only hope you guys are devoting as much time looking for answers to our turkey issues as you are attempting to tie the blame to YouTubers. Has the popularity of turkey hunting made public land hunting more difficult in some areas, absolutely, I'm affected as much as anyone. But, I refuse to let small negativities cast shade on an overall positive movement. Turkeys need the eyes and recognition.
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Those in my turkey and professional circle know it is far from the truth. I've explained myself previously in this response.

Agreed, turkeys need the eyes and recognition.

And lastly, I find it disgusting as a MS state wildlife biologist you would make comments like "I'm looking forward to the day turkey hunters quit. I'd rather have less turkeys and less hunters. . ." when you of all people should be acutely aware of how important hunters are to conservation. The mission of the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks is to conserve and enhance Mississippi’s wildlife, fisheries, and parks, provide quality outdoor recreation, and engage the public in natural resource conservation. That sentence copied straight from your agencies "about us." Let me ask you how you plan to "conserve and enhance" when you are advocating for less funding for the agency? How are you "engaging the public in resource conservation" if you frown on every new face that may visit your areas with the potential to become a volunteer? I am not without fault. I carry my share of flaws. I can't undo what's been done. I examine myself routinely to ensure I'm serving as the best example possible given my platform. I strongly suggest you do the same.

Ahhhh, there it is. Been waiting on the professional diss.

You do realize that MDWFP recently recognized an issue in "conserving and enhancing" the resource of public land wild turkeys. And to protect this resource for the residents of the state, had to propose a resolution that would cost the state many dollars? I am DANGED proud of my agency for looking after its residents rather than looking for the dollar. And I fully support this new non-resident proposal. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. I hate for anyone to lose hunting opportunity, regardless of residency. But when issues arise, they need to be addressed.

We NEED turkey hunters. I never said we didn't. We just don't need ever increasing pressure on our public lands. That is just going to lead to reduced opportunity.

Dude, my job is to literally manage our public land resources and provide recreational opportunities. I'm not going to frown on an individual visiting any of my areas? I routinely help all users, both consumptive and non-consumptive (and gasp, EVEN TURKEY HUNTERS!).

But as I'm guilty of casting stones your way, I fully expect return fire.




For those that have made it to this point the reply, I apologize if this came across as jaded and brash. If this forum is your only outlet for media content it would be good to know Nathan and this small (but loud) band of sidekicks consistently attacks myself along with any other YouTube contributors (although they have their favorites) with malicious intent. This becomes increasing obvious when despite our most genuine efforts to address their concerns and follow through with our promises, the attacks keep coming. Since the day Nathan traveled to Wisconsin and "was forced" to turn around because the pressure was too great for him, we have been the sole focus of his attacks. The blame had to go somewhere and of course, the admittance that he was bested by the turkeys and perhaps didn't show up as prepared as necessary were not options. Perhaps there wasn't any backup pins dropped for additional options when plan A or B were occupied, I'm foggy on the details. What's essential to know is there are no lengths he will not reach to impair the progress the popularity of hunting is making simply due to the fact he dislikes those involved. You can see this in his backhanded attempts at compliments above. I hope the nuggets of "I'll be glad when hunters quit" and "you've caused a crap show of traveling to turkey hunt" in his comments show his true motives in being contentious. When we realize there is good that will emerge from this bad the entire machine will be more productive. Is there a necessity to tailor the way things are presented through content creation, possibly. I'm always open for considerations. When the curtains are drawn on this thing, if there are fewer turkeys than when I arrived it's entire existence will be a failure in my eyes. I'm not prepared to watch that happen.

With all that being said, I again offer you, Nathan, an opportunity to let bygones be bygones. Help me help wild turkeys through whatever productive avenues we can open up. Reach out to your colleagues I have already spoken to within the agency and lets expand on the ideas many of us are already spearheading. Let's figure out how to ear-mark funding. Let's research ways to concentrate volunteer efforts and work around legalities so they can do more. Lets do good while there is time.

As evident across all turkey forums and other social media outlets, the band of "sidekicks" is constantly growing as more hunters become cognizant of what YouTube/social media has caused for the public land turkey hunter. Even though I don't know the majority, apparently they are my sidekicks because they share many of the same feelings.

You asked for input on this thread. I gave mine again on an open platform for everyone to see your responses.

"Our efforts to address their concerns?" - Well, here's another huge compliment for ya. You are the ONLY one to address the concerns. Others just blame everything on COVID and say we need more turkey hunters (which isn't wrong, but the issue is the amount being funneled to specific public lands) while some are even taking in money from partnerships with state agencies.

I can assure you, Dave, it wasn't a single visit to Wisconsin that opened my eyes to the situation we are currently in.

Question my integrity and character all you'd like. Those who personally know and work with me know there is nothing more I care about than preserving the wild turkey and opportunities for chasing them wherever our hearts desire. Right now the wild turkey isn't doing the best, public land/traveling pressure is reaching unprecedented highs, and opportunities are being reduced. And I'll go to my grave knowing social media and YouTube played a part on the public land side of things. I'm not casting all the blame on you and never once have. What bothers me is the blind eye you were turning to the damage.

Bygones can be bygones. But I'm not going to quit spreading awareness and hard factual data. Here's to wishing the best for the wild turkey and all future attempts at conservation and preservation of hunting opportunities!

Dave... I guess I'm not as deep of a thinker as I should be about all this but I just really enjoy your videos and anxiously await the next one to come out. My wife is not the least bit interested in hunting and she watches everyone with me.

My all-time favorite is the one in Florida where you can hear the gobbler footsteps splashing in the water as he is coming in. Second would be the one where Chubbs missed. A whole lot of bleeps on that one. I'm a better hunter having watched your videos. I totally revamped how I pack for plane trips after watching your how to video. I've also picked up a new piece of property and intend to re-watch your "how to scout a new area" video. Don't believe 95% of the comments on this forum. Keep em coming.

I guess I have the unpopular opinion in that I think we need less hunter recruitment, or less of how it is being done today Too many people being brought in that are consumers and not managers. They take and offer nothing in return. They didn’t have to work for the experience, so they don’t appreciate it. They don’t think about how their actions, or lack of, will affect tomorrow’s resource and hunting.

Seems the turkey population and sport was getting a long just fine, maybe even better, before social media and everyone thinking they needed to recruit new hunters to save the sport. Before all this mess, to be turkey hunter you really had to want to be one. Lips were tight, information scarce, and you had to learn mostly through the school of hard knocks and field experience. As a novice hunter, a lot of times you may go a couple years before killing one. But when you did there was no better feeling in the world. You coveted it and would protect it at all cost. Because you had paid your dues, put in the countless hours and work it took to get semi good at it. Last thing you did was post a picture on social media or parade around town with him. You had worked so hard for him the last thing you were going to do was give someone else a freebie on information. When asked, standard answer was always “Ain’t heard or seen nothin”. You managed your turkeys and did everything you could to preserve them so you would always have them. I know a lot of hunters on this site think the same way and are good for the wild turkey and also our sport.

If we are going to recruit hunters these are the ones we want, although these types never needed recruiting to begin with. We don’t need the guy who watched a couple videos, bought his decoys and slays turkeys over chufa patches. Those types are consumers and offer nothing in return. Over 30 years I’ve hunted with a few like that and after a good hunt I’d ask what they thought and I usually got “Eh, it was ok”. These were also hunters who never worked for a turkey. They always went as a guest and had the real hunter do all the work. We don’t want or need these types.

I hope we don’t sell out the wild turkey just for increased license sales, etc. under the guise of saving it. But it seems to be going that way.

I can get behind this- turkeys are not going extinct- and why I believe the "sky is falling" rhetoric should be curbed. We can likely also assume that if we quit acknowledging them altogether they would also not go extinct. What are the chances of the hunters deciding 2022 is the year they're going to completely stop turkey hunting? Unlikely. Even with the amount of turkey hunting that was occurring pre-Pinhoti/THP/ OnX/ Covid/ etc. the demand would soon catch up to the supply given the downward trend in poult production and our continued degradation of habitat. Back to the question on how what I am doing good for the resource. And I'll try to keep this brief. 1.) Increasing awareness of the issues turkeys are facing (poult recruitment, habitat degradation, etc). People aren't going to help unless they realize there is a problem. The problem has gone ignored for many years. 2.) Helping share new scientific findings relevant to our concerns (aflatoxin toxicity, prescribed fire information, hen nesting findings, poult survival findings, etc) to have a more informed population of hunters. I am a firm believer in a "melting pot" approach to answers. With each concern, the more possible causes or solutions we have given from different backgrounds (the farmer, the scientist, the neurologist, the biologist) the more likely we are to have the correct answer presented 3.) Motivating hunters to become more involved in conservation efforts whether that be donating time and/or money to organizations like TFT, NWTF, Sportsmans Alliance, etc. These organizations have a direct line into making some of the necessary research happen as well as funding for the habitat improvements we need. 4.) Attempting (regardless of anyone's opinion on how successfully) to create a league of hunters more engrossed in the journey rather than the reward. I don't think a barbaric image is healthy for hunting (decapitated or bludgeoned heads or the gentlemen who thought it to be funny to video a wounded jake wobble in circles until he died as examples). 5) Create a unified voice for turkey hunters, this will help with influence. For example, an agency or organization fails to appropriately address a situation- I can call and complain, you can call and complain. It's unlikely we will provoke a response. If the situation is presented to a large concerned, motivated group of hunters who agree the situation was mishandled then together the entire group is much more likely to provoke action. 6) A more concentrated push was the #savethepoults initiative we hopped on board with last January that had many more people setting dog-proof coon cuffs traps on both public and private lands. This addressed the over abundance of nest predators directly before nesting season. These efforts will continue. I like to think, possibly erroneously, that the beautiful hatch many areas of the country have seen this summer is in small part due to hunters efforts in reducing predator numbers.

These are just a few of the ways I and those with a similar platform have helped/ can help the resource- whether you view that as turkeys specifically or hunting as a whole.

Other things that may not be nearly as noticeable and more directly tied to me.
6) Substantial donations through time and money to TFT. I do this without desire for recognition or "clout." A wonderful coffee company (Backwoods Grind) approached me last season about a signature roast. It was developed and 100% of my earnings from the roast (and a significant portion of theirs) is routed directly to TFT. So that comes out to $6.50 per $15 bag of coffee goes directly to an organization I'm confident is determined to finding answers to some of our turkey problems. It's raised a surprisingly large amount of money for wild turkey research (that will be announced soon). It's important to know that despite what some may think, YouTube is not profitable, especially in the hunting arena. Guys are feeding off crumbles in order to pursue dreams and help in an environment they feel needs it. It's the ole adage, who has the purest intention for the poor beggar, "the man to gave him $20 when that's all he had or the man who have him $50 when his pockets were overflowing with millions?"

7) I've donated many hours of my own time to the local wmas. To the point last season I was given the opportunity to come on as a seasonal employee so that I could legally operate equipment and help further. It's a small but I feel worthy cause. I guess I mentioned this to illustrate I'm "walking the walk" rather that merely "talking the talk."

8) I've invested a significant amount of time learning terminology and educating myself on funding within organizations and state agencies to spearhead proposals I hope to be considered. These would help designate funding specifically for wild turkey habitat improvements and research. I had no idea what I was wading off into when I ventured down this path but it was necessary regardless of how tedious. I hope these will come to light soon but would like to give the agencies more time to mull over the ideas in case tweaks must be made for approval. Or perhaps they be denied altogether at which point I could take the reasoning and develop another route to get there to the same goal- to have designated funding targeting turkeys so wildlife professionals will need to discuss annually the well being of the resource and what areas would most need improvements.


So I failed at keeping that brief. But I'll stop there and tell you I'm confident this "YouTube era" can be molded and used for the greater good.

I respect your opinion. I have thick skin therefore it's hard to make me mad. My question to those of you hunting 50+ years, have you recruited new hunters to replace yourselves when you reach the age that hunting is no longer an option? I'd venture to say we probably need 3/4 hunters to replace each of those phasing out due to increased cost and the increased volitivity within the political arena of nowaday agencies. I know newbies can be frustrating but do you realize we all were newbies once upon a time? Hunters should be viewed as either takers or givers. If a hunter is giving more that his take then more hunters most certainly equal more turkeys. This is the type of hunter I want to be and the type I want to recruit. If the hunter simply takes and neglects efforts to also provide for the resource then you're most likely correct. More hunters will not result in more turkeys and this would be unfortunate. If we as hunters, encourage those among us to be to "gamekeepers," rather than just takers our resources will profit, I'm sure of it.

I'm not familiar with a hunt with those details. But I'll agree, that sucks.

Hahaha! I like your logic!

You should look into the Cecil the Lion story. I understand it may a little difficult to understand but conservation doesn't exist without hunters.

Then you should look into the amount of conservation and awareness these same channels promote. The hunting is 3 months of the year for me. The conservation is 9.

Hmm, I'd like to see that season move to opening day at least. Those opportunities should never be hindered.

As for the other advancements you mentioned, we can agree on them all.

I can definitely agree with much of what you're saying. I also think it's ridiculous some of these states do not have some type of small fee for applying for a permit? I wouldn't take issue with paying $10 or $15 to apply for an opportunity.

Another thought- your underpaid biologist and enforcement got me to thinking- man power is typically the response when faced with the daunting task of trapping. What are the possibilities of agencies contracting trappers for an intensive effect immediately prior to nesting season? Grants from NWTF super fund or the like could step into foot the bill? They already contract some of the large scale burning that's labor intensive. Seems feasible to me.

If you knew my history with these stupid birds, you'd understand......short version: I started turkey hunting 9 yrs ago, almost exclusively on public land. I didn't kill the first one until the next to last day of my 6th season and have only killed 3, total. I'm pretty sure I'm mentally ill...

I'm all for it, but it don't need to be dedicated to certain contractors. A random bounty would do or could be in addition to. What most people focus on is money but they also get lost in it. Everyone focuses on cost but they lack understanding that the money is the EASY part. It sounds goofy but it is just truth, spending a little more money to help a resource is infinitely easier than getting out there and trying to make a difference in small groups. This is what deerhunt88 is implying on how hard itll be to scale trapping and such on the huge swaths of public land. However i think we could allow some sort of not related to game animals bait to be used. Marshmallows maybe? Gonna be hard for someone to bait turkeys with those.

I live where the nutria were and still are a problem. However the $5 per tail turned in ($6) now bounty, Brought out people in droves to kill these things and I can tell you they Killed and still kill ALOT. With the right boat one could make a decent living just killing nutrias from that bounty, and they do.

These agencies have got to take in more earmarked money, but in doing so they also have to show results and action. A lot of the money gripes always stem back to people seeing it as a waste. Missouri and their funding shows infinitely. Now most states wont ever get funded like that but its an example of where you can see results, Both through the MANY small properties and conservation areas on top of how well they are managed. To those who think more expensive permits and such are Ludacris go purchase yourself enough land to hunt, manage it, care for it, pay taxes on it etc and get back with me on how expensive it is to hunt states public land. ( (Every child support paying father in the world complains about what they pay but if you'd ask the average single mom raising the kids mostly solo, I bet their opinion is alot diff lol)

We can agree. We need hunters who are willing to do more than take. You can see my response to OlTimer above before I reached your post and see our ideas align. We need hunters interested in more than merely murdering the resource and rather seeing it thrive.