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Big timber not suitable for fawns #2484911
05/16/18 06:37 PM
05/16/18 06:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 13,838
Mobile, AL
S
SouthBamaSlayer Offline OP
Gary's Fluffer
SouthBamaSlayer  Offline OP
Gary's Fluffer
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Mobile, AL
https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines...-timber-not-suitable-for-whitetail-fawns

Fawns are much more likely to survive in areas with an abundance of early successional habitat. (Shutterstock/DCW Creations photo)
The sun is shining. Trees are budding out. Flowers are blooming. On the surface, the timber seems like a tranquil place this time of year. But in reality, it’s a treacherous time to be a young white-tailed deer.

Does are fawning, or soon will be. That means one thing — predators are keying on newborns. And sadly, less than half of fawns will live to see their first fall. Kentucky is the last state with a fawn recruitment rate higher than one fawn-per-doe. In some states (especially in the Deep South), fawn recruitment rates are as low as .25 or .30 fawns-per-doe. Translation — in some places, that means it’s taking three to four does just to raise one fawn to maturity. Think that doesn’t have both a short- and long-term effect on deer herds? Think again. Along with habitat destruction, that’s the primary reason deer numbers are declining across the country. And it all starts with the relation between quality cover and the fawn drop.

Jeffery Mulhollem recently reported on a study conducted by Penn State and the Pennsylvania Game Commission where Tess. M. Gingery, Duane R. Diefenbach, Bret D. Wallingford and Christopher S. Rosenberry discovered that fawns in agricultural settings were much more likely to survive than fawns born in big timber landscapes.

To reach this conclusion, they pulled data samples from four study areas in Pennsylvania and incorporated published data from 29 other deer populations across 16 states.

The research showed that, in contiguous forested landscapes, the estimated average survival to six months of age is approximately 41 percent. However, there was a 5 percent increase in survival for every 10 percent increase in agricultural land area

Interestingly, studies have shown that does oftentimes leave forested areas and seek out better fawning cover such as agricultural fields (corn, soybeans, etc.), CRP fields, very young timber, and other forms of early successional habitat. This is the type of plant life deer need to successfully raise fawns. It’s also no surprise this is where you generally find the bulk of the deer herd not only during fawning season but throughout the year also. Deer are edge animals and need edge cover to thrive.

“The findings have management implications, because the results of the meta-analysis indicate that efforts to alter fawn survival to increase overall deer numbers will be challenging,” Mulhollem said. “Although predation is the largest source of mortality and occurred at the greatest rates, predator control efforts are difficult and often unsuccessful.”
Diefenbach confirmed.

"Managers looking to influence fawn mortality by increasing habitat diversity and maintaining a landscape structure with a mix of agriculture and forest may observe less fawn predation," he said. "However, reduced antlerless harvests may be more effective at achieving deer population objectives than attempts to manipulate the factors that influence fawn mortality."

While black bear and bobcats contribute to fawn predation, coyotes are the bulk of the problem. If predator control is in the plans, it’s important to note that research shows hunting is not a suitable method of effectively reducing coyote populations. However, a strict trapping initiative leading up to and during the fawn drop is the only method that will effectively control coyote populations well enough to increase fawn recruitment rates.

All in all, state agencies are already having to adjust bag limits due to the effects from predators. Many state agencies are enacting plans to help offset the number of fawns coyotes kill each spring and summer. If we don’t reign in this problem soon enough, both deer and deer hunting will suffer the consequences.

The answer? Better habitat. And better predator control. Sadly, we’re losing on both fronts. We need the ability to trap coyotes year-round. In many states (including my home state of Kentucky), it’s illegal to trap coyotes in the spring and summer. That’s unacceptable. In a time when we should be doing everything we can to help the white-tailed deer, the last thing we need is bad policy preventing us from doing just that.

The same goes for the threat to reduce the CRP program. CRP, CREP and similar programs provide even better fawning cover than agricultural settings do. The longevity of the white-tailed deer is directly linked to the longevity of these habitat programs, and habitat in general. It's time to do something about that.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2484914
05/16/18 06:39 PM
05/16/18 06:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
Chain saw is the best management tool in hardwoods.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2484977
05/16/18 08:11 PM
05/16/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
10 point
turkey247  Offline
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LASW
“New Study” - For old news.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2484981
05/16/18 08:16 PM
05/16/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,999
Holly Pond, AL
NightHunter Offline
10 point
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The study and the one that accompanied it had a lot more meat to it. Heard him present at Deer Study this year. Gave some interesting stats on different habitat for their region. Yes old news but did have some good info.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: NightHunter] #2484984
05/16/18 08:18 PM
05/16/18 08:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
Native warm season grasses seem like they would be key species for fawning cover.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2485150
05/17/18 06:22 AM
05/17/18 06:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
perchjerker  Offline
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Young Pine plantations are baby factories for deer. They provide cover and browse, fawns need the safety of undergrowth. Everytime I've seen yotes or dogs chasing fawns, its been in big woods.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: NightHunter] #2485173
05/17/18 06:45 AM
05/17/18 06:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,779
LASW
turkey247 Offline
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Originally Posted by NightHunter
The study and the one that accompanied it had a lot more meat to it. Heard him present at Deer Study this year. Gave some interesting stats on different habitat for their region. Yes old news but did have some good info.


thumbup

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2485370
05/17/18 11:29 AM
05/17/18 11:29 AM
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Posts: 25,626
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
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....And the winner of this years Captain Obvious award for the most useless waste of time and resources on an academic study goes to.......


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: jawbone] #2485385
05/17/18 11:50 AM
05/17/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by jawbone
....And the winner of this years Captain Obvious award for the most useless waste of time and resources on an academic study goes to.......

Actually, there's one even more worthy of that title. The National Science Foundation gave a million dollar grant to Cornell University -- for which researcher Michael Smith had a bee sting him roughly 200 times on 25 parts of his body and rated how much it hurt.

His penis was rated #1 most painful.

I think we could have all predicted that without the million dollars.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2485659
05/17/18 08:14 PM
05/17/18 08:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
Pines slap



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2485810
05/18/18 01:36 AM
05/18/18 01:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 31,681
Slidell, La
perchjerker Offline
Freak of Nature
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Slidell, La
I used to rave about beautiful big woods. Face it after the acorns are gone, they are mostly barrel of any food for deer. They are only travel routes. CRP, pine plantations and swamps are where deer thrive. If you doubt this, start watching how many big bucks have muddy legs.


Thomas Jefferson. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Life is too short to only hunt and fish on weekends!

If being a dumbass was fatal some of you would be on your death bed!

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: perchjerker] #2485908
05/18/18 07:28 AM
05/18/18 07:28 AM
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Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by perchjerker
I used to rave about beautiful big woods. Face it after the acorns are gone, they are mostly barrel of any food for deer. They are only travel routes. CRP, pine plantations and swamps are where deer thrive. If you doubt this, start watching how many big bucks have muddy legs.


You have to open up the canopy in mature hardwoods. A hardwood clear cut is deer heaven for browse and cover. You can burn every 2-3 years and it's like a fresh cut.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2486406
05/18/18 03:20 PM
05/18/18 03:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by perchjerker
I used to rave about beautiful big woods. Face it after the acorns are gone, they are mostly barrel of any food for deer. They are only travel routes. CRP, pine plantations and swamps are where deer thrive. If you doubt this, start watching how many big bucks have muddy legs.


You have to open up the canopy in mature hardwoods. A hardwood clear cut is deer heaven for browse and cover. You can burn every 2-3 years and it's like a fresh cut.



Obviously, me and you have a different definition of "clear cut." Opening the canopy for me is only taking out " x" amount of trees and leaving the rest. I call that a select cut. Done in pines I just call it a thinning. I call a clear cut when no trees are left. My clear cuts dang sure has an open canopy. grin

Have to watch the loggers closely on a select cut. They will "high grade.". That's taking out the best trees leaving less quality trees. I want junk gone first letting the best quality to thrive.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: centralala] #2486466
05/18/18 04:34 PM
05/18/18 04:34 PM
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Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by perchjerker
I used to rave about beautiful big woods. Face it after the acorns are gone, they are mostly barrel of any food for deer. They are only travel routes. CRP, pine plantations and swamps are where deer thrive. If you doubt this, start watching how many big bucks have muddy legs.


You have to open up the canopy in mature hardwoods. A hardwood clear cut is deer heaven for browse and cover. You can burn every 2-3 years and it's like a fresh cut.



Obviously, me and you have a different definition of "clear cut." Opening the canopy for me is only taking out " x" amount of trees and leaving the rest. I call that a select cut. Done in pines I just call it a thinning. I call a clear cut when no trees are left. My clear cuts dang sure has an open canopy. grin

Have to watch the loggers closely on a select cut. They will "high grade.". That's taking out the best trees leaving less quality trees. I want junk gone first letting the best quality to thrive.


Hardwood clear cut is normally all merchantable timber in our area, saw timber and pulp. Nothing much left. Even select cutting will open the canopy in small areas , plus skidding logs disturbs the soil. Also what and how a site is cut up here usually depends on which side of the mountain it's growing or if it's on top of the plateau . LA pine and mountain hardwood two very different animals .



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486605
05/18/18 08:15 PM
05/18/18 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
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central ala,
It was common to cut all pines out leaving just hardwood. Not so much anymore even though I looked at one tract 2 days ago with another guy that wanted to do just that. Only problem was there were very few pines. Also, here our better hardwoods will be higher up the hills go. Hill tops have more solid trees were bottom land have much more hollow trees. In the bottoms hold more moisture therefor vegetation such as briars and honeysuckle grow better. So it's the best of both worlds here, open the hard wood canopy in the bottoms with the less valuable trees, get better vegetation growth, and let better quality trees grow on the hills. In the perfect world for here, that going to provide food and cover for all ages of deer.

Pines is a whole different animal. I hear all the time back and forth about deer and pines, good vs. bad. But what I NEVER hear discussed is that pine needles cause the soil to be much more acidic. Do you lime food plots? Why? The vegetation in these South Alabama pines can produce the cover for the fawns but unless you're liming the pine plantations, the vegetation produced just isn't going to reach its potential. We have to do the best we can but for me if i only had two tools available in pines it would be fire and a coyote trapper. Then I feel fawn survival would not be a concern.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: centralala] #2486797
05/19/18 06:51 AM
05/19/18 06:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by centralala
It was common to cut all pines out leaving just hardwood. Not so much anymore even though I looked at one tract 2 days ago with another guy that wanted to do just that. Only problem was there were very few pines. Also, here our better hardwoods will be higher up the hills go. Hill tops have more solid trees were bottom land have much more hollow trees. In the bottoms hold more moisture therefor vegetation such as briars and honeysuckle grow better. So it's the best of both worlds here, open the hard wood canopy in the bottoms with the less valuable trees, get better vegetation growth, and let better quality trees grow on the hills. In the perfect world for here, that going to provide food and cover for all ages of deer.

Pines is a whole different animal. I hear all the time back and forth about deer and pines, good vs. bad. But what I NEVER hear discussed is that pine needles cause the soil to be much more acidic. Do you lime food plots? Why? The vegetation in these South Alabama pines can produce the cover for the fawns but unless you're liming the pine plantations, the vegetation produced just isn't going to reach its potential. We have to do the best we can but for me if i only had two tools available in pines it would be fire and a coyote trapper. Then I feel fawn survival would not be a concern.



I know this discussion is about cover, but oaks have total acorn failure some years . Therefor you can't rely on acorns only in large acreage, mature hardwoods as a stable , year in year out food source. That's another reason to open the canopy and do some checker boarding on a rotating basis on large hardwood tracts. Opening the canopy in hardwoods creates both cover and browse. It also makes for better hunting, the last place to kill a mature buck in our area is big , mature hardwoods.

Also since we had some of our timber cut in 05-06 we've have never had a total acorn failure. Releasing the smaller and midsized oaks apparently allows them to produce more consistently year to year. Be time to cut some more soon.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486830
05/19/18 08:38 AM
05/19/18 08:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,777
alabama
outdoors1 Offline
10 point
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Posts: 2,777
alabama
Good way to educate some. In short food, cover, and predator control. You could have 100 acres with 30 acres cropland and have more deer than anyone if you have a high fence cause variables could be better controlled. Killing too many does is the biggest way to devastate your population cause with back to back years with bad birthing rates it may be years for recovery. If you have a few extra not overpopulation you would still have a buffer for off years. If you are not seeing young deer that year you had better lay off the deer. Shoot more bucks and less doe. Sacrifice racks for long term deer population. Not what you want to here just the way it is. No does no deer.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486963
05/19/18 12:58 PM
05/19/18 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
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Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
Originally Posted by centralala
Pines is a whole different animal. I hear all the time back and forth about deer and pines, good vs. bad. But what I NEVER hear discussed is that pine needles cause the soil to be much more acidic. Do you lime food plots? Why? The vegetation in these South Alabama pines can produce the cover for the fawns but unless you're liming the pine plantations, the vegetation produced just isn't going to reach its potential. We have to do the best we can but for me if i only had two tools available in pines it would be fire and a coyote trapper. Then I feel fawn survival would not be a concern.


ALL of the high quality native plants are adapted to acid soils in Alabama and do great without soil amendments - thats the beauty of them, just treat em right and they will come.

Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Hardwoods slap


There, I fixed it for you. I read the study dissing big hardwoods, not pines wink

Originally Posted by jawbone
....And the winner of this years Captain Obvious award for the most useless waste of time and resources on an academic study goes to.......


It is obvious on the beautiful place you hunt but NOT for the majority of deer hunters! As you know I have been preaching Early Successional Habitat for years!! Most hunters don't know what ESH is, nor how to create it. I fight it all the time - folks love to see big, shady hardwoods and "thick stuff", two things I try to "uncreate" laugh

Also, I read the study not talking about "Big timber" but too much timber. Size doesn't matter much if you concentrate on getting sunlight through the canopy regardless of the size of the trees or canopy, nor species.

[Linked Image]


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486969
05/19/18 01:07 PM
05/19/18 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 41,955
UR 6
top cat Offline
Freak of Nature
top cat  Offline
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UR 6
We are blessed to have both. Along with a river, swamp, big ponds and mountains.


LUCK:::; When presistence, dedication, perspiration and preparation meet up with opportunity!!!
- - - - - - - -A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jeferson - - - - - - - -
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486974
05/19/18 01:12 PM
05/19/18 01:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
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Boxes Cove
Well yeah Gobbler, the two states mentioned are hardwood states , I doubt there's enough pine in the both of them to do a study. That's why I said a chain saw is the best tool in hardwood management , gotta open up the canopy and such. The " pine slap " post was aimed at folks posting talking about pines. I recon folks in LA pine country think that's the only species of tree on the planet.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 05/19/18 04:58 PM.


"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2486989
05/19/18 01:48 PM
05/19/18 01:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,535
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline
Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
Get sunlight to the ground……periodically reset succession……..control woody species…... mix in a quality food plot system……maybe add in a little predator trapping…….Bada-bing, bada-boom!!! grin


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487089
05/19/18 05:57 PM
05/19/18 05:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
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gobbler  Offline
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South Alabama
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Well yeah Gobbler, the two states mentioned are hardwood states , I doubt there's enough pine in the both of them to do a study. That's why I said a chain saw is the best tool in hardwood management , gotta open up the canopy and such. The " pine slap " post was aimed at folks posting talking about pines. I recon folks in LA pine country think that's the only species of tree on the planet.


Well maybe I should change my pic wink
How about this one - fire is still the best management tool in hardwoods
[Linked Image]

From N Alabama to Canada, early settlers described open 'Savannah" hardwood and mixed pine hardwood forests with lush understories of grasses, flowers and forbs. Even Chestnut smile
[Linked Image]

A good pub to look into!
[Linked Image]


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: gobbler] #2487158
05/19/18 07:29 PM
05/19/18 07:29 PM
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2Dogs Offline
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What took you so long, ?! laugh Fire is fine in low value hardwoods I suppose , least that's where I burn. No way I'm lighting one on the side of the mountain in high grade oaks. I'll let a logger stick a saw in them though. I like to grow big deer but I like big $ better.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487204
05/19/18 08:40 PM
05/19/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,174
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
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South Alabama
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
What took you so long, ?! laugh Fire is fine in low value hardwoods I suppose , least that's where I burn. No way I'm lighting one on the side of the mountain in high grade oaks. I'll let a logger stick a saw in them though. I like to grow big deer but I like big $ better.


Ahhh, hence the true conundrum. Landowners not willing to sacrifice growing fully stocked stands of pine or hardwood to grow an abundance of quality wildlife habitat! Does not matter whether you are growing either one if you cant sacrifice the stand stocking rate to let a little sunlight in for the wildlife habitat!! BTW, we burn high value hardwood stands all the time without damage. Depends on the burning technique and timing.

Last edited by gobbler; 05/19/18 08:41 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: gobbler] #2487218
05/19/18 08:58 PM
05/19/18 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gobbler
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
What took you so long, ?! laugh Fire is fine in low value hardwoods I suppose , least that's where I burn. No way I'm lighting one on the side of the mountain in high grade oaks. I'll let a logger stick a saw in them though. I like to grow big deer but I like big $ better.


Ahhh, hence the true conundrum. Landowners not willing to sacrifice growing fully stocked stands of pine or hardwood to grow an abundance of quality wildlife habitat! Does not matter whether you are growing either one if you cant sacrifice the stand stocking rate to let a little sunlight in for the wildlife habitat!! BTW, we burn high value hardwood stands all the time without damage. Depends on the burning technique and timing.


Our terra is varied , not like LA where every acre is basically the same and easy to control a fire . Any prescribed burning up here is on top of the plateau where the lower grade timber is and you can control the fire . Fire gets outa hand up here you have real problems. I've yet to talk to a state forester that has been trained on fighting mountain fires. They just do the best they can. Nobody in there right mind would light up on the side of the mountain much less North to East face where the real $ trees are. I visited Brent M yesterday at the mill he buys logs for there was one white oak butt cut worth 1,000 bucks , there were several more there close to that. Folks up here aren't lighting them up, me included. I'll just stick to doing it how I have in the past and settle for a mature 160" buck every now and then. smile

Y'all sell that high value hardwood by the ton?

Last edited by 2Dogs; 05/19/18 09:24 PM.


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487231
05/19/18 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Our terra is varied , not like LA where every acre is basically the same and easy to control a fire . Any prescribed burning up here is on top of the plateau where the lower grade timber is and you can control the fire . Fire gets outa hand up here you have real problems. I've yet to talk to a state forester that has been trained on fighting mountain fires. They just do the best they can. Nobody in there right mind would light up on the side of the mountain much less North to East face where the real $ trees are. I visited Brent M yesterday at the mill he buys logs for there was one white oak butt cut worth 1,000 bucks , there were several more there close to that. Folks up here aren't lighting them up, me included. I'll just stick to doing it how I have in the past and settle for a mature 160" buck every now and then. smile


Yep, pretty much how we ended up with the Gatlinburg fires 2 years ago wink Since nobody burns much up there and nature says it MUST burn occasionally, we can expect more Gatlinburgs in the future! However, I don't blame you. Burning on significant terrain is a challenge, we burn Coosa/Tallapoosa often and, while it isn't your mountains, it's pretty steep and varied. I do like burning terrain though. We don't get to burn flat ground often. If I actually lived and worked in LA, I might have more of a chance smile

Interesting statistic from that publication. Appalachian hardwood ecozone - pre European settlement burn interval was 13 years, post European settlement fire return interval 7 years, Modern fire return interval (with every fire put out) is 46 years!!! Think we are due for a big one like out west?!



Last edited by gobbler; 05/19/18 09:19 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: gobbler] #2487238
05/19/18 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gobbler
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Our terra is varied , not like LA where every acre is basically the same and easy to control a fire . Any prescribed burning up here is on top of the plateau where the lower grade timber is and you can control the fire . Fire gets outa hand up here you have real problems. I've yet to talk to a state forester that has been trained on fighting mountain fires. They just do the best they can. Nobody in there right mind would light up on the side of the mountain much less North to East face where the real $ trees are. I visited Brent M yesterday at the mill he buys logs for there was one white oak butt cut worth 1,000 bucks , there were several more there close to that. Folks up here aren't lighting them up, me included. I'll just stick to doing it how I have in the past and settle for a mature 160" buck every now and then. smile


Yep, pretty much how we ended up with the Gatlinburg fires 2 years ago wink Since nobody burns much up there and nature says it MUST burn occasionally, we can expect more Gatlinburgs in the future! However, I don't blame you. Burning on significant terrain is a challenge, we burn Coosa/Tallapoosa often and, while it isn't your mountains, it's pretty steep and varied. I do like burning terrain though. We don't get to burn flat ground often. If I actually lived and worked in LA, I might have more of a chance smile

Interesting statistic from that publication. Appalachian hardwood ecozone - pre European settlement burn interval was 13 years, post European settlement fire return interval 7 years, Modern fire return interval (with every fire put out) is 46 years!!! Think we are due for a big one like out west?!





Those settlers and native Americans weren't getting paid $1,000 per acre and up, sometimes way up, stumpage . You have several hundred acres of good, mature oak in our area we talkin' real $. If there's any fires in high end stands up here nature will have to set them.

As far as "out West" type fire , I'd figure our forests aren't as dry and we don't normally have days on end of high winds. I guess it's possible though.

You touched on our terrain , you should see some of our skidder drivers in action . Fearless, but mostly crazy . They say it ain't rough unless you roll one. I bet John Deere would be shocked at where they put those machines too.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 05/19/18 09:53 PM.


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487253
05/19/18 09:43 PM
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Gobbler,
In the burned hardwood stand, was that stand thinned to that point where the larger mast producing trees were left and undesirable hardwoods were removed?


Wish it was hunting season.....year round
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487266
05/19/18 09:54 PM
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centralala Offline
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I didn't say they wouldn't do great. I said they wouldn't reach their potetential. Are you saying honeysuckle left alone will be as close to its potential as honeysuckle where the soil is amended? Really? I'll stick with what I said, amended soils will give better quality vegetation than non amended soils.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: centralala] #2487328
05/19/18 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs

As far as "out West" type fire , I'd figure our forests aren't as dry and we don't normally have days on end of high winds. I guess it's possible though.

You touched on our terrain , you should see some of our skidder drivers in action . Fearless, but mostly crazy . They say it ain't rough unless you roll one. I bet John Deere would be shocked at where they put those machines too.


Im sure plenty of discussions similar to this were had before Gatlinburg!

We need to import some of your loggers down here. thumbup Usually they leave steep slopes uncut cause they don't want to go up n down em!

Originally Posted by Willyb
Gobbler,
In the burned hardwood stand, was that stand thinned to that point where the larger mast producing trees were left and undesirable hardwoods were removed?


The smoking one, yes. We thinned it for wildlife habitat purposes. The other one is a oak savannah in the midwest.

Originally Posted by centralala
I didn't say they wouldn't do great. I said they wouldn't reach their potetential. Are you saying honeysuckle left alone will be as close to its potential as honeysuckle where the soil is amended? Really? I'll stick with what I said, amended soils will give better quality vegetation than non amended soils.


The discussion is related to native understory habitat and fawning cover. Honeysuckle is not a native. Its an exotic invasive that deer like to eat. It is also not fawning cover, nor does it compose a significant part of most understories. Understory habitat is things like broomstraw and other Andropogon species, native forbs and legumes, etc that grow under open, sunny pine and hardwood forests that are properly maintained. They neither need nor utilize increases in pH (in acid dirt), nor do they respond particularly well to fertilizer. Often they do worse on limed and fertilized ground, so yes, they do reach their potential on "unamended" ground. They are evolved and adapted to the soil conditions on the areas they exist and do quite well with sunlight and fire.

Last edited by gobbler; 05/19/18 11:54 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487346
05/20/18 06:14 AM
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Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh




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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487351
05/20/18 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Actually, just had 2 brothers move up there to cut the steep slopes was my understanding. Bill and Kirk Sanders.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: centralala] #2487364
05/20/18 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Actually, just had 2 brothers move up there to cut the steep slopes was my understanding. Bill and Kirk Sanders.


thumbup Where they working and for whom? You know where they're selling their grade logs? Do they use only a cut down machine or will they go old school and use a saw? Where some of the best timber grows must be cut with a saw and pulled with a cable to get the grapple to it. There are spots just too steep and rough that just can't be safely cut by the best locals. Some do have the "if it grows, we'll get it" motto. And it's all good till you roll a skidder, dozer or truck back in the mountains. I suspect their idea of steep and the locals idea is gonna be very different.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 05/20/18 07:53 AM.


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487372
05/20/18 08:03 AM
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I’m just throwing out a guess here so don’t scold me too bad if it’s wrong…….but hypothetically if we were gonna burn some mountain hardwoods I’m guessing we would do it with a high humidity 35% maybe???.....probably want a little moisture in the fuel……low winds……back fires starting at the top of the slope burning toward the bottom….Low intensity being the goal.

I agree with both sides on this one. I think it’s possible to do but I also don’t know how much I would gamble on it if I were a landowner. Me personally, if I had hardwoods on my land worth a lot of money then I’d sell the chit out of them and leave just enough good producers to make an oak savannah.


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487374
05/20/18 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs


I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487378
05/20/18 08:14 AM
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Turkey you can't convince the hillbilly hero any different.


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: turkey247] #2487383
05/20/18 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
Turkey you can't convince the hillbilly hero any different.


And you can't show me.
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.


You've worked timber on mountain sides in Jackson , DeKalb or Cherokee counties?



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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 257wbymag] #2487387
05/20/18 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
Turkey you can't convince the hillbilly hero any different.


I figured it was about time for you to stir the pot bout something you know nothing about.



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Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: turkey247] #2487389
05/20/18 08:26 AM
05/20/18 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.


North Monroe County would surprise some folks, as well.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: N2TRKYS] #2487393
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Originally Posted by N2TRKYS
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.


North Monroe County would surprise some folks, as well.


Brad , how does that area compare to where you fought that fire up on the Tenn. line? Some pretty rugged terra back in those coves.

Also , it don't count if you leave timber standing like Gobbler was talking bout.

Last edited by 2Dogs; 05/20/18 08:31 AM.


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 257wbymag] #2487400
05/20/18 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
......the hillbilly hero...…….


That’d be an awesome tag line under 2dogs name…..just sayin….. rofl


Carry on. smile


Last edited by CNC; 05/20/18 08:43 AM.

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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487401
05/20/18 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by N2TRKYS
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Plenty of steep ground as far south as southern Clarke County where the two big rivers come together. No truth to the statement about the loggers. I’ve worked both areas and 9 out of 10 loggers are all the same when it comes to handling steep slopes. No difference at all in what they will cut, period.


North Monroe County would surprise some folks, as well.


Brad , how does that area compare to where you fought that fire up on the Tenn. line? Some pretty rugged terra back in those coves.

Also , it don't count if you leave timber standing like Gobbler was talking bout.


Obviously, there's more area with steeper terrain up there. However, there's some hills in North Monroe that you can't walk down without rope.

It was open upland hardwoods. If I remember correctly, they couldn't cut it cause of Red Hills Salamanders. That was some of the best turkey hunting that I've ever had.


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487406
05/20/18 08:51 AM
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I have worked trackhoes and dozers a lot in them slopes. Its very dangerous. Sometimes its impossible. We have to either pull with cables or tear the ground up to lessen the grade to handle the situation. I dread clearing jobs in the mountains in north bama. I been very lucky but i have had way too many close calls. So many that im leary everytime i push a tree over. I clear the land. A local loggin company logs our jobs. We work together on clearing jobs when there is enough timber for them to turn a profit.

Its funny they always tell me...man we will be lucky to break even on these jobs....as they are buying brand new equipment!

There is a difference to me on how some log jobs. Some just make a mess and waste a lot of good timber by beating it up or cutting it then never looking good to retrieve it. Amazing how much good pulp, cedar or oaks are totally wasted. Some employees are too lazy to save wood

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487408
05/20/18 08:54 AM
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But for steep slopes, my vote would be bankhead forest. Not jackson county.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: Jakethesnake] #2487425
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Originally Posted by Jakethesnake
But for steep slopes, my vote would be bankhead forest. Not jackson county.


Never been on Bankhead , but I hear there's hills and hollows and I'm sure some steep areas as well as other areas of the state have some. We just have hundreds of thousands of acres of them in NE Bama. Our loggers just think it's normal I suppose, they don't know anything else. There's a couple of super rough , remote tracts up around the state line that have been worked with helicopters. Pretty good show.

Yeah, some skidder rash is gonna happen , but some of them almost seem to go out of the way to destroy trees they don't have to.



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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487428
05/20/18 09:21 AM
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Yeah jackson county is rough. I shoulda used better words. Bankhead area is bad. But all of jackson county is rough. Jackson county is the prettiest area i have seen in all of alabama.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487467
05/20/18 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Actually, just had 2 brothers move up there to cut the steep slopes was my understanding. Bill and Kirk Sanders.


thumbup Where they working and for whom? You know where they're selling their grade logs? Do they use only a cut down machine or will they go old school and use a saw? Where some of the best timber grows must be cut with a saw and pulled with a cable to get the grapple to it. There are spots just too steep and rough that just can't be safely cut by the best locals. Some do have the "if it grows, we'll get it" motto. And it's all good till you roll a skidder, dozer or truck back in the mountains. I suspect their idea of steep and the locals idea is gonna be very different.


I don't know where they are but I was told last week they had bought some special type of equipment for cutting slopes. That's what I was told, now I'll tell you what I KNOW: Neither one of those brothers elevator goes to the top floor. How they have lived this long is a miracle. One is an artist. I have a turkey painting on my wall right now he painted. IIRC he did the duck stamp one year. Studied in Paris. He taught me to Turkey hunt. One morning he picked me up and we went off, stopped and walked...and walked....and walked. Finally got to a field and we it started getting daylight i noticed a treestand. A while later I noticed it was MY treestand. He had taken me poaching on my own property. I could go on and on from him blowing up ( I mean with dynamite) a loaner car from the dealership accidentally to him causing a search for a crashed plane that didn't happen.

The other brother is rude, crude, and just socially unacceptable. Head so flat he could look through a skeleton key hole with both eyes. Been married 2 times I know of. Very rich and very beautiful women. I don't understand it.

But I'll ask where they are this week.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487473
05/20/18 10:52 AM
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Sure that's not the Brown brothers???? rofl


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Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 257wbymag] #2487477
05/20/18 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
Sure that's not the Brown brothers???? rofl


You know the first girl he married. They own quite a few acres on Cedar Creek but most of there operation is around Autaugaville with one of her brothers running it.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: centralala] #2487478
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Gobbler, y'all sell hardwood saw timber by the ton? If so how much a ton?

I didn't know y'all had any steep slopes , LOL! If one of those LA crews came up here they'd say y'all have lost your minds and hillbilly loggers are crazy. They wouldn't even unload their equipment. laugh



Actually, just had 2 brothers move up there to cut the steep slopes was my understanding. Bill and Kirk Sanders.


thumbup Where they working and for whom? You know where they're selling their grade logs? Do they use only a cut down machine or will they go old school and use a saw? Where some of the best timber grows must be cut with a saw and pulled with a cable to get the grapple to it. There are spots just too steep and rough that just can't be safely cut by the best locals. Some do have the "if it grows, we'll get it" motto. And it's all good till you roll a skidder, dozer or truck back in the mountains. I suspect their idea of steep and the locals idea is gonna be very different.


I don't know where they are but I was told last week they had bought some special type of equipment for cutting slopes. That's what I was told, now I'll tell you what I KNOW: Neither one of those brothers elevator goes to the top floor. How they have lived this long is a miracle. One is an artist. I have a turkey painting on my wall right now he painted. IIRC he did the duck stamp one year. Studied in Paris. He taught me to Turkey hunt. One morning he picked me up and we went off, stopped and walked...and walked....and walked. Finally got to a field and we it started getting daylight i noticed a treestand. A while later I noticed it was MY treestand. He had taken me poaching on my own property. I could go on and on from him blowing up ( I mean with dynamite) a loaner car from the dealership accidentally to him causing a search for a crashed plane that didn't happen.

The other brother is rude, crude, and just socially unacceptable. Head so flat he could look through a skeleton key hole with both eyes. Been married 2 times I know of. Very rich and very beautiful women. I don't understand it.

But I'll ask where they are this week.


Sounds like a real pair of winners. I'm bettin' they bit off more than they can chew up here and will be headed back to more "friendly" terra soon.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487479
05/20/18 11:03 AM
05/20/18 11:03 AM
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
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N. Bama
Yup. Know who that is


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487557
05/20/18 01:33 PM
05/20/18 01:33 PM
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Jackson County
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BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
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Jackson County
This thread needs its own spin off........ but anyway.

I bought all those good logs off of Bill, and I’ve been all over those “steep slopes”. That’s honestly the gentlest side of the mountain tract I’ve ever set foot on. I was impressed with Bill he’s one of the most knowledgeable loggers I’ve ever been around. I don’t know if he ever studied in Paris or not but from what I understand he’s a
former Green Beret. I really enjoyed working with him and I hope he gets back up this way soon but honestly there are very few tracts up this way gentle enough for him to get his equipment on. He ended up having to leave about 1/3 of that tract standing and pull out and head back south. No shame on him; he did an excellent job but some of that is gonna have to be worked with a chainsaw and a cable skidder just like most of the rest of Jackson county.

The problem for loggers up here is not so much steep...... there is steep ground everywhere. It’s the big country and the rocks and the long drags. Most aren’t prepared to have to drag logs upwards of a mile to get em to a suitable bunching ground that you can get a truck into.
I know a real good logger in Tennessee that cuts stuff way steeper than we have here with a dozer and and little 440 skidder no problem; but thats the difference in hills and mountains. Don’t matter how steep a hill is if you can drag it right to the foot and load it.
Same guy bought a good tract in PRV and struggled bad because of the rocks and the long drags. It’s just different country.

Last edited by BrentM; 05/20/18 01:39 PM.
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487562
05/20/18 01:41 PM
05/20/18 01:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
Small world .



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: BrentM] #2487589
05/20/18 02:17 PM
05/20/18 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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central ala,
Originally Posted by BrentM
This thread needs its own spin off........ but anyway.

I bought all those good logs off of Bill, and I’ve been all over those “steep slopes”. That’s honestly the gentlest side of the mountain tract I’ve ever set foot on. I was impressed with Bill he’s one of the most knowledgeable loggers I’ve ever been around. I don’t know if he ever studied in Paris or not but from what I understand he’s a
former Green Beret. I really enjoyed working with him and I hope he gets back up this way soon but honestly there are very few tracts up this way gentle enough for him to get his equipment on. He ended up having to leave about 1/3 of that tract standing and pull out and head back south. No shame on him; he did an excellent job but some of that is gonna have to be worked with a chainsaw and a cable skidder just like most of the rest of Jackson county.

The problem for loggers up here is not so much steep...... there is steep ground everywhere. It’s the big country and the rocks and the long drags. Most aren’t prepared to have to drag logs upwards of a mile to get em to a suitable bunching ground that you can get a truck into.
I know a real good logger in Tennessee that cuts stuff way steeper than we have here with a dozer and and little 440 skidder no problem; but thats the difference in hills and mountains. Don’t matter how steep a hill is if you can drag it right to the foot and load it.
Same guy bought a good tract in PRV and struggled bad because of the rocks and the long drags. It’s just different country.


As I said, that's what I was told. Sounds like he's not cutting very steep slopes. Don't know where he is now. He was an Army Ranger, not Green Beret. Kirk was military special forces also. Bill had a bad bicycle wreck in Paris that sent him back home. Kirk had a tree fall on him that about killed him. They are likable people but, like I said, their elevators don't go to the top floor.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487641
05/20/18 03:53 PM
05/20/18 03:53 PM
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Thomasville, AL
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Hogwild Offline
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Thomasville, AL
Most loggers that I know want to make money.
They are not terribly concerned with impressing folks on how steep of terrain they can log.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: Hogwild] #2487650
05/20/18 04:00 PM
05/20/18 04:00 PM
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BrentM Offline
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Up here most of the money is in the steeps. The majority of the easy stuff has been gone for a long time.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: Hogwild] #2487653
05/20/18 04:05 PM
05/20/18 04:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,207
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by Hogwild
Most loggers that I know want to make money.
They are not terribly concerned with impressing folks on how steep of terrain they can log.


The steep , rough , rocky mountain sides are where you make the money up here, that's where the big $ timber grows. There is some river bottom timber but 95% is in the mountains.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: Hogwild] #2487661
05/20/18 04:15 PM
05/20/18 04:15 PM
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central ala,
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centralala Offline
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centralala  Offline
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central ala,
Originally Posted by Hogwild
Most loggers that I know want to make money.
They are not terribly concerned with impressing folks on how steep of terrain they can log.



I think it's in their blood. Dang if I would get in the logging business trying to make money. EVERYTHING is against you and out of your control. It's a tough business around here. Now we have several logging crews around us out of Florida. They are capable of cutting swamps like no one else left in business around here can. Talked to one group last week....waiting on permits to cross a bridge. Another one of those sitting, waiting "out of your control" situations. Then the mills put them on a quota or shut them down all together. It's just tough for the loggers in the woods.

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: 2Dogs] #2487663
05/20/18 04:18 PM
05/20/18 04:18 PM
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central ala,
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centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by Hogwild
Most loggers that I know want to make money.
They are not terribly concerned with impressing folks on how steep of terrain they can log.


The steep , rough , rocky mountain sides are where you make the money up here, that's where the big $ timber grows. There is some river bottom timber but 95% is in the mountains.


Are helicopters not economically feasible? Or the cut down still too much of a problem?

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487673
05/20/18 04:33 PM
05/20/18 04:33 PM
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Posts: 9,340
Jackson County
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BrentM Offline
Mr. Turkey
BrentM  Offline
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Jackson County
Choppers would be feasible now in lots of places because the hardwood markets are so good. It costs a lot of money to fly em out though. Somewhere between 35-40 cents a board foot just to get it back to the landing

Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #2487734
05/20/18 05:49 PM
05/20/18 05:49 PM
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Scottsboro, Al
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jbatey1 Offline
Lucky Bastage
jbatey1  Offline
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Scottsboro, Al
Out of curiosity, how much on average do landowners get for virgin timber around here? Let’s say per acre. I know there are a lot of variables to this.


On a side note-
Brent, my uncle manages a mill for Keller. You probably know him. I saw him the other day and was talking timber with, something I don’t know much about.


The fool tells me his reasons; the wise man persuades me with my own.
Re: Big timber not suitable for fawns [Re: perchjerker] #2500189
06/05/18 06:45 PM
06/05/18 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,114
Pensacola
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level5 Offline
6 point
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Pensacola
Originally Posted by perchjerker
Young Pine plantations are baby factories for deer. They provide cover and browse, fawns need the safety of undergrowth. Everytime I've seen yotes or dogs chasing fawns, its been in big woods.


Hatchery is what we call the young pines, so I have to agree.

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