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Re: Hunting match scope [Re: gundoc] #2466946
04/23/18 10:32 AM
04/23/18 10:32 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
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R_H_Clark Offline
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R_H_Clark  Offline
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Joined: May 2012
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NW Alabama
Originally Posted by gundoc
I have asked this question in the past and herd nothing but crickets.

Why do Kahles, S&B some Zeiss, have such a good name when they - at least the ones I have shot have - been cloudy and /or did not have edge to edge clarity? The Kahles and S&B both looked distorted unless the target was directly in the center of the sight picture. It's the same type of distortion I've seen in lower end scopes. Both were cloudy or at least not as bright as my Vortex PST scope. The Zeiss - I believe it was a Diavari - was just distorted.

This may not be the norm, but it's all have to go on. I am by far no expert when it comes to scopes, but I know what looks clear and bright to my eye.

I have a buddy with a Swaro Z6 he got this past Christmas that is distorted on the edges on the high end of the zoom range too.

It just seems to me, for the price they command, they would be perfect. I mean heck, my Vortex PST is clear edge to edge throughout the zoom range and clear for less than 1/3 the price.


I've heard other people say that they went through 2-3 scopes of the same model before getting one that had better glass than the others on some of these big name scopes. I think sometimes they depend on name alone and then when someone buys one they make excuses because they spent so much money.

I briefly had a Leica ERi 2.5-10X42. I reterned it in less than 10 days because the edges were so blurry on 2.5X that you couldn't read a car license plate at 25 yards looking through the last 1/3 edge of the glass. You could read it better with the naked eye. That distortion went away at higher power but it was unacceptable to me in a $1500 scope.

Re: Hunting match scope [Re: AU7MM08] #2466955
04/23/18 10:38 AM
04/23/18 10:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
Goatkiller Offline
14 point
Goatkiller  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,111
B'ham
They are overpriced. The Nightforce the military kinda uses sometimes is all glued up on the inside. Not the same scope they sell to consumers however their name and marketing demand the price $1500+ for a Japanese scope that is not the same scope their reputation is allegedly built upon.

The reason I would say S&B is maybe worth the cost is not because of the glass but they are military grade. So if a Nightforce is $2k then a S&B is $3k you are actually getting what you are paying for at $3k.

Some are really good glass some are fuzzy... in the end what does it matter. I can take a $500 fixed 10x and make pay dirt on the range all day long. In the woods I can kill whatever you want me to shoot out to what I consider max ethical distances with a $500 Sightron.

I find it funny. Guns themselves are on a race to the complete BOTTOM of the pile in terms of quailty while scope manufacturers are trying to one up the ante somehow....

I'm with you gundoc... I don't see that the means justify the ends myself either.

Good glass is nice but in the end that's not a huge advantage. The fact of the matter is we have to shoot during legal shooting hours/light if you are hunting. On the range you don't need it either. Nobody ever accused Unertl of being in the same league as what we are discussing, however 50 years ago they were ringing 1k yd shots all day long. I can pull one out of the back of the safe... slide a clearly inferior (by 2018 standards) 30-06 in the chamber and pop steel plates at nearly any gun range in the South Eastern United States all day long.

None of us are shooting 2500 yds. regularly where some of these scopes in fact would have a clear advantage.

That's just the reality. I own a couple S&B scopes. But I'm not going to spew a bunch of nonsense about how awesome they are over someone else's scope simply because I own one and you don't. I think that's what the deal is on most of this stuff. Just people bragging on the internet trying to see who's the biggest Rambo.

I mean if I only had 5 guns... I could have a $5k scope on everyone of them too. But in my opinion if you only own 5 guns and have been shooting for 5 years you need to know your role... type less and read more.



No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
Re: Hunting match scope [Re: Goatkiller] #2467007
04/23/18 11:39 AM
04/23/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 15,167
Ourtown, AL
BCLC Online IMG_0051.GIF
Old Mossy Horns
BCLC  Online IMG_0051.GIF
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 15,167
Ourtown, AL
Originally Posted by Goatkiller
They are overpriced. The Nightforce the military kinda uses sometimes is all glued up on the inside. Not the same scope they sell to consumers however their name and marketing demand the price $1500+ for a Japanese scope that is not the same scope their reputation is allegedly built upon.

The reason I would say S&B is maybe worth the cost is not because of the glass but they are military grade. So if a Nightforce is $2k then a S&B is $3k you are actually getting what you are paying for at $3k.

Some are really good glass some are fuzzy... in the end what does it matter. I can take a $500 fixed 10x and make pay dirt on the range all day long. In the woods I can kill whatever you want me to shoot out to what I consider max ethical distances with a $500 Sightron.

I find it funny. Guns themselves are on a race to the complete BOTTOM of the pile in terms of quailty while scope manufacturers are trying to one up the ante somehow....

I'm with you gundoc... I don't see that the means justify the ends myself either.

Good glass is nice but in the end that's not a huge advantage. The fact of the matter is we have to shoot during legal shooting hours/light if you are hunting. On the range you don't need it either. Nobody ever accused Unertl of being in the same league as what we are discussing, however 50 years ago they were ringing 1k yd shots all day long. I can pull one out of the back of the safe... slide a clearly inferior (by 2018 standards) 30-06 in the chamber and pop steel plates at nearly any gun range in the South Eastern United States all day long.

None of us are shooting 2500 yds. regularly where some of these scopes in fact would have a clear advantage.

That's just the reality. I own a couple S&B scopes. But I'm not going to spew a bunch of nonsense about how awesome they are over someone else's scope simply because I own one and you don't. I think that's what the deal is on most of this stuff. Just people bragging on the internet trying to see who's the biggest Rambo.

I mean if I only had 5 guns... I could have a $5k scope on everyone of them too. But in my opinion if you only own 5 guns and have been shooting for 5 years you need to know your role... type less and read more.



Where's the "LIKE" button when you need it. Well said Goatkiller thumbup


We’re not dead. We just smell that way. Dayum. - AC870

Yessir! I’m always gonna shoot what makes me happy and I want everyone else to do the same! If you shoot one be proud of it and don’t worry what anyone else thinks. - SJ22
Re: Hunting match scope [Re: AU7MM08] #2467132
04/23/18 02:23 PM
04/23/18 02:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13,971
Some Marriott/Auburn
A
AU7MM08 Offline OP
Booner
AU7MM08  Offline OP
Booner
A
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 13,971
Some Marriott/Auburn
Put a deposit on the Bushnell from GA Precision.

Re: Hunting match scope [Re: AU7MM08] #2467267
04/23/18 04:40 PM
04/23/18 04:40 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
R
R_H_Clark Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R_H_Clark  Offline
Leupold Pro Staff
R
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,670
NW Alabama
Originally Posted by AU7MM08
Put a deposit on the Bushnell from GA Precision.


If you don't like it when you get it PM me. I don't think you could have done better for the money.

Re: Hunting match scope [Re: AU7MM08] #2467502
04/23/18 08:16 PM
04/23/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,682
Hoover
burbank Online content
Booner
burbank  Online Content
Booner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 13,682
Hoover
Not in the long range game....but I’ve said for a long time that once you get out of the 500-600 range the return on investment is not worth it.

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